so after 7 years, I am about to get kicked out of the Air Force for some dumb shit.

ablues10 · 05-17-2009, 07:38 PM

All because I am at a training base, I gave a ride to a chick, just out of basic, and got stopped on base by a cop for following to close to another car. She is not supposed to be around any TDY people. They are calling it fraternization. I have no idea what the punishment is, but I expect the worse. Anyone have any experiences with it? I heard it could be a article 15. All for trying to be nice and help someone out.

***orangesonoma*** · 05-17-2009, 08:11 PM

that sound like a very stupid reason..

616 of 933 · 05-17-2009, 08:18 PM

i dont think they will kick you out. But you may lose a paygrade unless you did not no she was a bootcamp

Zapnoma · 05-17-2009, 08:54 PM

Article 15 = Non-Judicial Punishment

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Article_15

You won't be getting kicked out of anything for an Art.15, lol.

Btw, how have you been in the military for 7 years and not know what happens with an Article 15? <_<

Dirtydirty · 05-17-2009, 09:05 PM

art 15 seems harsh for something so stupid..... i doubt youll lose rank

Joker Relentless · 05-17-2009, 09:20 PM

I doubt you'll lose a paygrade over some as insignificant especially if you tell them you were just trying to be nice to a fellow service member you seen walking down the road.

EDIT: Then again...you are at a training base and they get retarded at those.

ablues10 · 05-17-2009, 10:49 PM

as far as dropping a pay grade, I am a reservist and that is pretty unlikely. I looked up AFI 36-2909 (professional and unprofessional relationships) and I could not find a reason that would fit my situation. I did not violate anything mentioned like:

Quote: Originally Posted by http://www.af.mil/shared/media/epubs/AFI36-2909.pdf

the underlying standard is that Air Force members are expected to avoid
those relationships that negatively affect morale, discipline, respect for authority and unit cohesion.

Also:

Quote: Originally Posted by http://www.af.mil/shared/media/epubs/AFI36-2909.pdf

8. Actions in Response to Unprofessional Relationships. If a relationship is prohibited by this instruction
or is causing (or if good professional judgment and common sense indicate that a relationship may
reasonably result in) a degradation of morale, good order, discipline or unit cohesion, a commander or
supervisor should take corrective action. Action should normally be the least severe necessary to terminate
the unprofessional aspects of the relationship. The full spectrum of administrative actions is available
and should be considered. Administrative actions include, but are not limited to, counseling,
reprimand, creation of an unfavorable information file (UIF), removal from position, reassignment,
demotion, delay of or removal from a promotion list, adverse or referral comments in performance reports
and administrative separation. One or more complementary actions can be taken.

What do you guys think?

daragez · 05-17-2009, 11:16 PM

that's stupid!....

ablues10 · 05-18-2009, 06:43 PM

Still no paperwork. Everyone at this base knows about it. They also are saying that I am ****ing her. Can they give me paperwork based on rumors?

nti06 · 05-19-2009, 01:01 AM

You are apart of a U.S government organization. Logic, sense, and reason do not apply.
Epic failure is always pending. When it will happen is the mystery.

You gave them 7 years of dedicated service and now your possibly going to get shit on for some ridiculous shit.

.... and people ask whats wrong with me when i start yelling rape when a military recruiter approaches me.

~~Gibson~~ · 05-19-2009, 01:11 AM

Quote: Originally Posted by nti06

.... and people ask whats wrong with me when i start yelling rape when a military recruiter approaches me.

words of epicness^

ablues10 · 05-19-2009, 02:10 PM

Quote: Originally Posted by nti06

You are apart of a U.S government organization. Logic, sense, and reason do not apply.
Epic failure is always pending. When it will happen is the mystery.

You gave them 7 years of dedicated service and now your possibly going to get shit on for some ridiculous shit.

.... and people ask whats wrong with me when i start yelling rape when a military recruiter approaches me.

a tell me about it. I hate training bases. I still have not heard a thing.

Joker Relentless · 05-19-2009, 02:13 PM

If you haven't heard anything in the next couple of days, I wouldn't worry about it.

dngrous_dime · 05-19-2009, 02:26 PM

Quote: Originally Posted by nti06

You are apart of a U.S government organization. Logic, sense, and reason do not apply.
Epic failure is always pending. When it will happen is the mystery.

qft...

Zapnoma · 05-19-2009, 02:33 PM

Quote: Originally Posted by ablues10

Still no paperwork. Everyone at this base knows about it. They also are saying that I am ****ing her. Can they give me paperwork based on rumors?

Tell them to fucking court-martial your ass and PROVE it in court or shut the fuck up about it.

Who are the ones that are supposed to be "initiating" the charges? The MP's or your Command? If it's the MP's and your Command isn't doing dick to interdict this because they know you're a good guy and nothing would happen, I'd say it's fucking time to switch units.
If it's your Command, tell them to fucking pound sand or prove the charges in a court of law....and it's still time to switch units.

If it does end up going to court-martial, get a civilian lawyer to represent you.

Also, if they wanted to punish me for something as basic and human natured as giving someone else a ride, then they can fucking punish me all they want as I waltz out the door. There are some things worth fighting, you have to decide if this is one of them. I would personally tell them to KMA if this is something they want to pursue.

BanginJimmy · 05-19-2009, 11:32 PM

Quote: Originally Posted by Zapnoma

Tell them to fucking court-martial your ass and PROVE it in court or shut the fuck up about it.

Who are the ones that are supposed to be "initiating" the charges? The MP's or your Command? If it's the MP's and your Command isn't doing dick to interdict this because they know you're a good guy and nothing would happen, I'd say it's fucking time to switch units.
If it's your Command, tell them to fucking pound sand or prove the charges in a court of law....and it's still time to switch units.

If it does end up going to court-martial, get a civilian lawyer to represent you.

Also, if they wanted to punish me for something as basic and human natured as giving someone else a ride, then they can fucking punish me all they want as I waltz out the door. There are some things worth fighting, you have to decide if this is one of them. I would personally tell them to KMA if this is something they want to pursue.

Spoken like someone that has been around the military for a while. If your command, the only ones that can try you without a Courts martial, wants to pursue this, elect for a court martial. The final sentence is no different and a jury will acquit you.

The only way I can think of that you are not found not guilty is if the girl you picked up had some sort of identifying badge or something to show she was a trainee.

ablues10 · 05-20-2009, 12:48 AM

So word on the street is, it will be an Letter of reprimand. A LOR is on my record for 6 months and thats it. I already told my unit back home so they know. I should find out for sure tomorrow.

Zapnoma · 05-20-2009, 05:47 AM

Quote: Originally Posted by ablues10

So word on the street is, it will be an Letter of reprimand. A LOR is on my record for 6 months and thats it. I already told my unit back home so they know. I should find out for sure tomorrow.

That's not bad but if you sign anything, you make sure that it's noted for the record that you don't agree with what happened.

greasemykey · 05-21-2009, 11:09 AM

wait now i have been in the Coast Guard for 8 years and i dont know what an art. 15 is. however i have yet to get into trouble so that could be why.

Quote: Originally Posted by Zapnoma

Article 15 = Non-Judicial Punishment

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Article_15

You won't be getting kicked out of anything for an Art.15, lol.

Btw, how have you been in the military for 7 years and not know what happens with an Article 15? <_<

greasemykey · 05-21-2009, 11:12 AM

i can tell you from experience that they have to PROVE with PICTURES that you are having a sexual relationship. call up your military lawyers office and talk to them about it.

i am however feeling like there is more to this story than you are telling.

Zapnoma · 05-21-2009, 12:02 PM

Quote: Originally Posted by greasemykey

wait now i have been in the Coast Guard for 8 years and i dont know what an art. 15 is. however i have yet to get into trouble so that could be why.

You've never known *anyone* to get an Article 15? Jesus christ, are all you puddle-jumpers a bunch of Quakers?

Joker Relentless · 05-21-2009, 03:40 PM

Quote: Originally Posted by Zapnoma

You've never known *anyone* to get an Article 15? Jesus christ, are all you puddle-jumpers a bunch of Quakers?

lee-mill · 05-21-2009, 03:43 PM

Quote: Originally Posted by greasemykey

i can tell you from experience that they have to PROVE with PICTURES that you are having a sexual relationship. call up your military lawyers office and talk to them about it.

i am however feeling like there is more to this story than you are telling.

o rly been in since you were 16? unless your age is wrong

Zapnoma · 05-21-2009, 04:15 PM

Quote: Originally Posted by Joker Relentless

Like you guys are sooooo much better.

stv-lo · 05-21-2009, 05:03 PM

any word yet? it seems like a bunch of bull to me... i agree with zap to make sure that its noted that you disagree with what you are signing

BanginJimmy · 05-21-2009, 06:58 PM

Quote: Originally Posted by Zapnoma

You've never known *anyone* to get an Article 15? Jesus christ, are all you puddle-pirates a bunch of Quakers?

Fixed it for you.

vio0633 · 05-21-2009, 11:44 PM

I am a Navy Instructor here at NAS Pensacola. If I did something like this...then I could see myself getting into trouble. It would just look wrong for me as an instructor to drive any of my students around (Especially female students). I have to agree with the dude saying about helping people though....u should not get into any trouble doing this as long as you kept it professional and did everything cool. I cant see a normal USAF member getting into trouble for this though. You have no ties with her and she is not directly part of your chain of command...so doing any favors or helping her out does not constitute fraternization with each other.

Good luck to you man! Make sure whatever you sign does not state anything about you doing wrong on this. It could bite you in the ass later on when your up for promotion or any board.

vio0633 · 05-21-2009, 11:49 PM

Here is the Navy instruction on fraternization. It clearly defines the meaning of fraternization and what is prohibited. I know you all have different instructions in the air force...but fraternization is preety much the same throughout all the military branches.

http://doni.daps.dla.mil/Directives/...rt/5370.2C.pdf

ablues10 · 05-22-2009, 12:04 AM

I received a LOR. It was for 3 things. I will post it up tomorrow. Basically, the cops said I lied.

vio0633 · 05-22-2009, 12:42 AM

Quote: Originally Posted by ablues10

I received a LOR. It was for 3 things. I will post it up tomorrow. Basically, the cops said I lied.

Damn...what the hell did you do to piss someone off? All you did was pick up a young air force member and took her to work but got pulled over? WTF dude...what did you say or do when he pulled you over? What did you get pulled over for? Something dont sound right.....

vio0633 · 05-22-2009, 12:47 AM

Are you guys in the air force able to send a request through your entire chain of command to speak to the CO? If something like this went down and I knew I did nothing wrong...I would request open mast to see the skipper. Talk to your legal dept first and see what rights you have in this matter before you get all crazy. Take care of yourself and standup for yourself!

stv-lo · 05-22-2009, 12:55 AM

this guy sounds like he knows what hes talking about... and it definitely sounds to me like they were out for yah... id definitely talk to someone about it i dont see why you'd get in trouble for this

Joker Relentless · 05-22-2009, 02:16 AM

Quote: Originally Posted by Zapnoma

Like you guys are sooooo much better.

We are sooooo much better, so shut your whore mouth Tyler.

Zapnoma · 05-24-2009, 09:31 AM

Quote: Originally Posted by Joker Relentless

We are sooooo much better, so shut your whore mouth Tyler.

You guys are like the older, drunken college fratboy of the family that no one likes and everyone thinks is a douchebag all of the time because he's such a retard.

Zapnoma · 05-24-2009, 09:33 AM

Quote: Originally Posted by ablues10

I received a LOR. It was for 3 things. I will post it up tomorrow. Basically, the cops said I lied.

Fuck that shit. I would be talking to JAG/Legal Dept. ASAP, depending on how hard you want to fight this. If you know they are unable to prove you "lied" about anything or your intentions, I would fight this to the fucking bitter end. Nothing pisses me off more than being called a liar or being called out on something which you had absolutely 0% participation in, especially without having any proof.

Joker Relentless · 05-24-2009, 12:02 PM

Quote: Originally Posted by Zapnoma

You guys are like the older, drunken college fratboy of the family that no one likes and everyone thinks is a douchebag all of the time because he's such a retard.

That shit almost made me spill my morning cup of coffee.

Edit: Oh yeah...**** you too Tyler

ablues10 · 05-24-2009, 01:34 PM

Quote: Originally Posted by Zapnoma

Fuck that shit. I would be talking to JAG/Legal Dept. ASAP, depending on how hard you want to fight this. If you know they are unable to prove you "lied" about anything or your intentions, I would fight this to the fucking bitter end. Nothing pisses me off more than being called a liar or being called out on something which you had absolutely 0% participation in, especially without having any proof.

Ya it pisses me off but it will be pulled from my records in a few months. My unit doesnt like the reason why i got it.

Zapnoma · 05-24-2009, 05:23 PM

Quote: Originally Posted by Joker Relentless

That shit almost made me spill my morning cup of coffee.

Edit: Oh yeah...**** you too Tyler

You forgot the "Dude, watch this...." in your reply.

Zapnoma · 05-24-2009, 05:25 PM

Quote: Originally Posted by ablues10

Ya it pisses me off but it will be pulled from my records in a few months. My unit doesnt like the reason why i got it.

Pft, I wouldn't care if it was pulled off tomorrow. If I got accused of doing something I didn't do and there was no way they could prove it, I would fight the shit until I couldn't fight anymore.

sockjock · 05-24-2009, 06:05 PM

The military courts aren't like the free world courts at all. They don't have to prove anything. The fact that she was a trainee isn't the real issue, rather that you were an NCO or higher rank and she was not. I am amazed though that they would charge you with anything unless you were caught in a relationship of some kind with her.

ps. I've been to article 15 NJP 3 times. But I was not a good boy. I ended up receiving OTH discharge in the end. Not my finest moment for sure. If I could I would definitely go back and change plenty. Good luck.

ablues10 · 05-24-2009, 06:46 PM

Quote: Originally Posted by sockjock

The military courts aren't like the free world courts at all. They don't have to prove anything. The fact that she was a trainee isn't the real issue, rather that you were an NCO or higher rank and she was not. I am amazed though that they would charge you with anything unless you were caught in a relationship of some kind with her.

ps. I've been to article 15 NJP 3 times. But I was not a good boy. I ended up receiving OTH discharge in the end. Not my finest moment for sure. If I could I would definitely go back and change plenty. Good luck.

< Not an NCO lol. Its all good though. It really could have been worse.

Zapnoma · 05-24-2009, 09:41 PM

Quote: Originally Posted by sockjock

The military courts aren't like the free world courts at all. They don't have to prove anything.

Erm, what?

sockjock · 05-25-2009, 05:55 AM

When you sign the contract you become property....so let's say you go to the lake on your day off and get a sun burn...oops. You could be in trouble for damaging govt. property.

While I was in the Marines I got tonsilitis with a fever of 103F and was hallucinating, unable to get myself out of bed and make it to work. When my roomates came back from work that evening they literally carried me to hospital on base. The doctors gave me meds. and a 3day no duty pass. When I returned to work I was charged with UA because I didn't have papers to cover the first day I was out of work...even though my brains had been baking and couldn't walk to sick call...or think rationally. I don't know about most people but if I have a fever of 103 or higher I hallucinate like crazy.
When I tried to explain the circumstances I was basically called a liar. I still lost a pay grade and was fined $200. That was my first Art.15 NJP

Quote:

Erm, what?

I guess I should have said Article 15 is not like civilian courts, that's why it's called Non Judicial Punishment or NJP

Zapnoma · 05-25-2009, 06:28 AM

Quote: Originally Posted by sockjock

I guess I should have said Article 15 is not like civilian courts, that's why it's called Non Judicial Punishment or NJP

That's a little better.

Court-martials still have to prove evidence with "standards of proof" to a Judge or panel.

sockjock · 05-25-2009, 07:13 AM

Quote: Originally Posted by Zapnoma

That's a little better.

Court-martials still have to prove evidence with "standards of proof" to a Judge or panel.

Correct.

ablues10 · 05-26-2009, 01:18 AM

Quote: Originally Posted by sockjock

When you sign the contract you become property....so let's say you go to the lake on your day off and get a sun burn...oops. You could be in trouble for damaging govt. property.

A girl here, got a ART15 for that very same thing. She fell asleep at the pool.

fluX · 05-29-2009, 08:07 PM

Quote: Originally Posted by Zapnoma

Tell them to fucking court-martial your ass and PROVE it in court or shut the fuck up about it.

Who are the ones that are supposed to be "initiating" the charges? The MP's or your Command? If it's the MP's and your Command isn't doing dick to interdict this because they know you're a good guy and nothing would happen, I'd say it's fucking time to switch units.
If it's your Command, tell them to fucking pound sand or prove the charges in a court of law....and it's still time to switch units.

If it does end up going to court-martial, get a civilian lawyer to represent you.

Also, if they wanted to punish me for something as basic and human natured as giving someone else a ride, then they can fucking punish me all they want as I waltz out the door. There are some things worth fighting, you have to decide if this is one of them. I would personally tell them to KMA if this is something they want to pursue.

Couldn't have said it any better myself.

McMahan · 05-29-2009, 08:11 PM

if you explain the situation you should be fine bro. had a familuar incedent happen to a battle buddy of mine. he explained what happened he had no reprocusions

bitchin sonoma · 05-29-2009, 08:33 PM

thats ****ed up shit.I don't get shit some times.You help some body out and you get in trouble.I swear there is so many stupid laws out there.I wonder if you get in trouble if teh person is dying to and you attend therm to help them out.

Zapnoma · 05-30-2009, 07:31 AM

Quote: Originally Posted by fluX

Couldn't have said it any better myself.

05-17-2009, 07:38 PM	#1
ablues10 Resident A-10 Crewcheif Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 3,507 Location: Springfield & Whiteman AFB,MO User is: OffLine	so after 7 years, I am about to get kicked out of the Air Force for some dumb shit. All because I am at a training base, I gave a ride to a chick, just out of basic, and got stopped on base by a cop for following to close to another car. She is not supposed to be around any TDY people. They are calling it fraternization. I have no idea what the punishment is, but I expect the worse. Anyone have any experiences with it? I heard it could be a article 15. All for trying to be nice and help someone out.
	[Reply w/Quote]

05-17-2009, 08:11 PM	#2
*orangesonoma* forum idiot Age: 31 Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 46,856 Location: Indian Trail, NC User is: OffLine	Re: so after 7 years, I am about to get kicked out of the Air Force for some dumb shi that sound like a very stupid reason..
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05-17-2009, 08:18 PM	#3
616 of 933 Registered User Age: 33 Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 276 Location: User is: OffLine	Re: so after 7 years, I am about to get kicked out of the Air Force for some dumb shi i dont think they will kick you out. But you may lose a paygrade unless you did not no she was a bootcamp
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05-17-2009, 08:54 PM	#4
Zapnoma Fri'chkn n wtrmeln -nom! Join Date: Nov 2003 Posts: 20,090 Location: Fri'chknville User is: OffLine	Re: so after 7 years, I am about to get kicked out of the Air Force for some dumb shi Article 15 = Non-Judicial Punishment http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Article_15 You won't be getting kicked out of anything for an Art.15, lol. Btw, how have you been in the military for 7 years and not know what happens with an Article 15? <_<
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05-17-2009, 09:05 PM	#5
Dirtydirty Registered User Join Date: May 2008 Posts: 31 Location: Valdosta User is: OffLine	Re: so after 7 years, I am about to get kicked out of the Air Force for some dumb shi art 15 seems harsh for something so stupid..... i doubt youll lose rank
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05-17-2009, 09:20 PM	#6
Joker Relentless Who's got the fish? Age: 26 Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 5,913 Location: Antartica User is: Online	Re: so after 7 years, I am about to get kicked out of the Air Force for some dumb shi I doubt you'll lose a paygrade over some as insignificant especially if you tell them you were just trying to be nice to a fellow service member you seen walking down the road. EDIT: Then again...you are at a training base and they get retarded at those.
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05-17-2009, 10:49 PM	#7
ablues10 Resident A-10 Crewcheif Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 3,507 Location: Springfield & Whiteman AFB,MO User is: OffLine	Re: so after 7 years, I am about to get kicked out of the Air Force for some dumb shi as far as dropping a pay grade, I am a reservist and that is pretty unlikely. I looked up AFI 36-2909 (professional and unprofessional relationships) and I could not find a reason that would fit my situation. I did not violate anything mentioned like: Quote: Originally Posted by http://www.af.mil/shared/media/epubs/AFI36-2909.pdf the underlying standard is that Air Force members are expected to avoid those relationships that negatively affect morale, discipline, respect for authority and unit cohesion. Also: Quote: Originally Posted by http://www.af.mil/shared/media/epubs/AFI36-2909.pdf 8. Actions in Response to Unprofessional Relationships. If a relationship is prohibited by this instruction or is causing (or if good professional judgment and common sense indicate that a relationship may reasonably result in) a degradation of morale, good order, discipline or unit cohesion, a commander or supervisor should take corrective action. Action should normally be the least severe necessary to terminate the unprofessional aspects of the relationship. The full spectrum of administrative actions is available and should be considered. Administrative actions include, but are not limited to, counseling, reprimand, creation of an unfavorable information file (UIF), removal from position, reassignment, demotion, delay of or removal from a promotion list, adverse or referral comments in performance reports and administrative separation. One or more complementary actions can be taken. What do you guys think?
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05-17-2009, 11:16 PM	#8
daragez Registered User Join Date: Apr 2009 Posts: 98 Location: User is: OffLine	Re: so after 7 years, I am about to get kicked out of the Air Force for some dumb shi that's stupid!....
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05-18-2009, 06:43 PM	#9
ablues10 Resident A-10 Crewcheif Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 3,507 Location: Springfield & Whiteman AFB,MO User is: OffLine	Re: so after 7 years, I am about to get kicked out of the Air Force for some dumb shi Still no paperwork. Everyone at this base knows about it. They also are saying that I am ****ing her. Can they give me paperwork based on rumors?
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05-19-2009, 01:01 AM	#10
nti06 O'Reilly R.S.S Age: 23 Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 1,049 Location: Hephzibah, GA User is: OffLine	Re: so after 7 years, I am about to get kicked out of the Air Force for some dumb shi You are apart of a U.S government organization. Logic, sense, and reason do not apply. Epic failure is always pending. When it will happen is the mystery. You gave them 7 years of dedicated service and now your possibly going to get shit on for some ridiculous shit. .... and people ask whats wrong with me when i start yelling rape when a military recruiter approaches me.
	[Reply w/Quote]

05-19-2009, 01:11 AM	#11
~~Gibson~~ Banned Age: 17 Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 733 Location: Pittsburgh pa User is: OffLine	Re: so after 7 years, I am about to get kicked out of the Air Force for some dumb shi Quote: Originally Posted by nti06 .... and people ask whats wrong with me when i start yelling rape when a military recruiter approaches me. words of epicness^
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05-19-2009, 02:10 PM	#12
ablues10 Resident A-10 Crewcheif Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 3,507 Location: Springfield & Whiteman AFB,MO User is: OffLine	Re: so after 7 years, I am about to get kicked out of the Air Force for some dumb shi Quote: Originally Posted by nti06 You are apart of a U.S government organization. Logic, sense, and reason do not apply. Epic failure is always pending. When it will happen is the mystery. You gave them 7 years of dedicated service and now your possibly going to get shit on for some ridiculous shit. .... and people ask whats wrong with me when i start yelling rape when a military recruiter approaches me. a tell me about it. I hate training bases. I still have not heard a thing.
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05-19-2009, 02:13 PM	#13
Joker Relentless Who's got the fish? Age: 26 Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 5,913 Location: Antartica User is: Online	Re: so after 7 years, I am about to get kicked out of the Air Force for some dumb shi If you haven't heard anything in the next couple of days, I wouldn't worry about it.
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05-19-2009, 02:26 PM	#14
dngrous_dime Project Classified LIVES! Age: 29 Join Date: May 2003 Posts: 15,190 Location: 49633 User is: OffLine	Re: so after 7 years, I am about to get kicked out of the Air Force for some dumb shi Quote: Originally Posted by nti06 You are apart of a U.S government organization. Logic, sense, and reason do not apply. Epic failure is always pending. When it will happen is the mystery. qft...
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05-19-2009, 02:33 PM	#15
Zapnoma Fri'chkn n wtrmeln -nom! Join Date: Nov 2003 Posts: 20,090 Location: Fri'chknville User is: OffLine	Re: so after 7 years, I am about to get kicked out of the Air Force for some dumb shi Quote: Originally Posted by ablues10 Still no paperwork. Everyone at this base knows about it. They also are saying that I am **ing her. Can they give me paperwork based on rumors? Tell them to fucking court-martial your ass and PROVE it in court or shut the fuck up about it. Who are the ones that are supposed to be "initiating" the charges? The MP's or your Command? If it's the MP's and your Command isn't doing dick to interdict this because they know you're a good guy and nothing would happen, I'd say it's fucking time to switch units. If it's your Command, tell them to fucking pound sand or prove the charges in a court of law....and it's still time to switch units. If it does end up going to court-martial, get a civilian lawyer to represent you. Also, if they wanted to punish me for something as basic and human natured as giving someone else a ride, then they can fucking punish me all they want as I waltz out the door. There are some things worth fighting, you have to decide if this is one of them. I would personally tell them to KMA if this is something they want to pursue. Last edited by Zapnoma : 05-19-2009 at 02:36 PM.
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05-19-2009, 11:32 PM	#16
BanginJimmy Registered User Age: 30 Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 1,615 Location: dallas, ga User is: OffLine	Re: so after 7 years, I am about to get kicked out of the Air Force for some dumb shi Quote: Originally Posted by Zapnoma Tell them to fucking court-martial your ass and PROVE it in court or shut the fuck up about it. Who are the ones that are supposed to be "initiating" the charges? The MP's or your Command? If it's the MP's and your Command isn't doing dick to interdict this because they know you're a good guy and nothing would happen, I'd say it's fucking time to switch units. If it's your Command, tell them to fucking pound sand or prove the charges in a court of law....and it's still time to switch units. If it does end up going to court-martial, get a civilian lawyer to represent you. Also, if they wanted to punish me for something as basic and human natured as giving someone else a ride, then they can fucking punish me all they want as I waltz out the door. There are some things worth fighting, you have to decide if this is one of them. I would personally tell them to KMA if this is something they want to pursue. Spoken like someone that has been around the military for a while. If your command, the only ones that can try you without a Courts martial, wants to pursue this, elect for a court martial. The final sentence is no different and a jury will acquit you. The only way I can think of that you are not found not guilty is if the girl you picked up had some sort of identifying badge or something to show she was a trainee.
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05-20-2009, 12:48 AM	#17
ablues10 Resident A-10 Crewcheif Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 3,507 Location: Springfield & Whiteman AFB,MO User is: OffLine	Re: so after 7 years, I am about to get kicked out of the Air Force for some dumb shi So word on the street is, it will be an Letter of reprimand. A LOR is on my record for 6 months and thats it. I already told my unit back home so they know. I should find out for sure tomorrow.
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05-20-2009, 05:47 AM	#18
Zapnoma Fri'chkn n wtrmeln -nom! Join Date: Nov 2003 Posts: 20,090 Location: Fri'chknville User is: OffLine	Re: so after 7 years, I am about to get kicked out of the Air Force for some dumb shi Quote: Originally Posted by ablues10 So word on the street is, it will be an Letter of reprimand. A LOR is on my record for 6 months and thats it. I already told my unit back home so they know. I should find out for sure tomorrow. That's not bad but if you sign anything, you make sure that it's noted for the record that you don't agree with what happened.
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05-21-2009, 11:09 AM	#19
greasemykey Registered User Age: 25 Join Date: May 2009 Posts: 8 Location: User is: OffLine	Re: so after 7 years, I am about to get kicked out of the Air Force for some dumb shi wait now i have been in the Coast Guard for 8 years and i dont know what an art. 15 is. however i have yet to get into trouble so that could be why. Quote: Originally Posted by Zapnoma Article 15 = Non-Judicial Punishment http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Article_15 You won't be getting kicked out of anything for an Art.15, lol. Btw, how have you been in the military for 7 years and not know what happens with an Article 15? <_<
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05-21-2009, 11:12 AM	#20
greasemykey Registered User Age: 25 Join Date: May 2009 Posts: 8 Location: User is: OffLine	Re: so after 7 years, I am about to get kicked out of the Air Force for some dumb shi i can tell you from experience that they have to PROVE with PICTURES that you are having a sexual relationship. call up your military lawyers office and talk to them about it. i am however feeling like there is more to this story than you are telling.
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05-21-2009, 12:02 PM	#21
Zapnoma Fri'chkn n wtrmeln -nom! Join Date: Nov 2003 Posts: 20,090 Location: Fri'chknville User is: OffLine	Re: so after 7 years, I am about to get kicked out of the Air Force for some dumb shi Quote: Originally Posted by greasemykey wait now i have been in the Coast Guard for 8 years and i dont know what an art. 15 is. however i have yet to get into trouble so that could be why. You've never known anyone to get an Article 15? Jesus christ, are all you puddle-jumpers a bunch of Quakers?
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05-21-2009, 03:40 PM	#22
Joker Relentless Who's got the fish? Age: 26 Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 5,913 Location: Antartica User is: Online	Re: so after 7 years, I am about to get kicked out of the Air Force for some dumb shi Quote: Originally Posted by Zapnoma You've never known anyone* to get an Article 15? Jesus christ, are all you puddle-jumpers a bunch of Quakers?*
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05-21-2009, 03:43 PM	#23
lee-mill where's my chippy? Age: 20 Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 7,846 Location: staatsburg, ny User is: OffLine	Re: so after 7 years, I am about to get kicked out of the Air Force for some dumb shi Quote: Originally Posted by greasemykey i can tell you from experience that they have to PROVE with PICTURES that you are having a sexual relationship. call up your military lawyers office and talk to them about it. i am however feeling like there is more to this story than you are telling. o rly been in since you were 16? unless your age is wrong
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05-21-2009, 04:15 PM	#24
Zapnoma Fri'chkn n wtrmeln -nom! Join Date: Nov 2003 Posts: 20,090 Location: Fri'chknville User is: OffLine	Re: so after 7 years, I am about to get kicked out of the Air Force for some dumb shi Quote: Originally Posted by Joker Relentless Like you guys are sooooo much better.
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05-21-2009, 05:03 PM	#25
stv-lo Useless Age: 22 Join Date: Aug 2008 Posts: 2,495 Location: your mom... User is: Online	Re: so after 7 years, I am about to get kicked out of the Air Force for some dumb shi any word yet? it seems like a bunch of bull to me... i agree with zap to make sure that its noted that you disagree with what you are signing
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05-21-2009, 06:58 PM	#26
BanginJimmy Registered User Age: 30 Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 1,615 Location: dallas, ga User is: OffLine	Re: so after 7 years, I am about to get kicked out of the Air Force for some dumb shi Quote: Originally Posted by Zapnoma You've never known anyone* to get an Article 15? Jesus christ, are all you puddle-pirates a bunch of Quakers?* Fixed it for you.
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05-21-2009, 11:44 PM	#27
vio0633 SIC FL Chapter prez Age: 28 Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 3,320 Location: Pensacola, Florida User is: OffLine	Re: so after 7 years, I am about to get kicked out of the Air Force for some dumb shi I am a Navy Instructor here at NAS Pensacola. If I did something like this...then I could see myself getting into trouble. It would just look wrong for me as an instructor to drive any of my students around (Especially female students). I have to agree with the dude saying about helping people though....u should not get into any trouble doing this as long as you kept it professional and did everything cool. I cant see a normal USAF member getting into trouble for this though. You have no ties with her and she is not directly part of your chain of command...so doing any favors or helping her out does not constitute fraternization with each other. Good luck to you man! Make sure whatever you sign does not state anything about you doing wrong on this. It could bite you in the ass later on when your up for promotion or any board. Last edited by vio0633 : 05-21-2009 at 11:46 PM.
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05-21-2009, 11:49 PM	#28
vio0633 SIC FL Chapter prez Age: 28 Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 3,320 Location: Pensacola, Florida User is: OffLine	Re: so after 7 years, I am about to get kicked out of the Air Force for some dumb shi Here is the Navy instruction on fraternization. It clearly defines the meaning of fraternization and what is prohibited. I know you all have different instructions in the air force...but fraternization is preety much the same throughout all the military branches. http://doni.daps.dla.mil/Directives/...rt/5370.2C.pdf
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05-22-2009, 12:04 AM	#29
ablues10 Resident A-10 Crewcheif Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 3,507 Location: Springfield & Whiteman AFB,MO User is: OffLine	Re: so after 7 years, I am about to get kicked out of the Air Force for some dumb shi I received a LOR. It was for 3 things. I will post it up tomorrow. Basically, the cops said I lied.
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05-22-2009, 12:42 AM	#30
vio0633 SIC FL Chapter prez Age: 28 Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 3,320 Location: Pensacola, Florida User is: OffLine	Re: so after 7 years, I am about to get kicked out of the Air Force for some dumb shi Quote: Originally Posted by ablues10 I received a LOR. It was for 3 things. I will post it up tomorrow. Basically, the cops said I lied. Damn...what the hell did you do to piss someone off? All you did was pick up a young air force member and took her to work but got pulled over? WTF dude...what did you say or do when he pulled you over? What did you get pulled over for? Something dont sound right.....
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05-22-2009, 12:47 AM	#31
vio0633 SIC FL Chapter prez Age: 28 Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 3,320 Location: Pensacola, Florida User is: OffLine	Re: so after 7 years, I am about to get kicked out of the Air Force for some dumb shi Are you guys in the air force able to send a request through your entire chain of command to speak to the CO? If something like this went down and I knew I did nothing wrong...I would request open mast to see the skipper. Talk to your legal dept first and see what rights you have in this matter before you get all crazy. Take care of yourself and standup for yourself!
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05-22-2009, 12:55 AM	#32
stv-lo Useless Age: 22 Join Date: Aug 2008 Posts: 2,495 Location: your mom... User is: Online	Re: so after 7 years, I am about to get kicked out of the Air Force for some dumb shi this guy sounds like he knows what hes talking about... and it definitely sounds to me like they were out for yah... id definitely talk to someone about it i dont see why you'd get in trouble for this
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05-22-2009, 02:16 AM	#33
Joker Relentless Who's got the fish? Age: 26 Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 5,913 Location: Antartica User is: Online	Re: so after 7 years, I am about to get kicked out of the Air Force for some dumb shi Quote: Originally Posted by Zapnoma Like you guys are sooooo much better. We are sooooo much better, so shut your whore mouth Tyler.
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05-24-2009, 09:31 AM	#34
Zapnoma Fri'chkn n wtrmeln -nom! Join Date: Nov 2003 Posts: 20,090 Location: Fri'chknville User is: OffLine	Re: so after 7 years, I am about to get kicked out of the Air Force for some dumb shi Quote: Originally Posted by Joker Relentless We are sooooo much better, so shut your whore mouth Tyler. You guys are like the older, drunken college fratboy of the family that no one likes and everyone thinks is a douchebag all of the time because he's such a retard.
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05-24-2009, 09:33 AM	#35
Zapnoma Fri'chkn n wtrmeln -nom! Join Date: Nov 2003 Posts: 20,090 Location: Fri'chknville User is: OffLine	Re: so after 7 years, I am about to get kicked out of the Air Force for some dumb shi Quote: Originally Posted by ablues10 I received a LOR. It was for 3 things. I will post it up tomorrow. Basically, the cops said I lied. Fuck that shit. I would be talking to JAG/Legal Dept. ASAP, depending on how hard you want to fight this. If you know they are unable to prove you "lied" about anything or your intentions, I would fight this to the fucking bitter end. Nothing pisses me off more than being called a liar or being called out on something which you had absolutely 0% participation in, especially without having any proof.
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