Question about this welder

mylostsoul · 09-28-2009, 11:54 AM

Hey guys, I have been looking into finally buying a welder, basically to do bagging, bodydropping, body work, all the good stuff

I have found a Hobart Handler 140 it is saying it welds from 24 gauge to 1/4" steel and its 110 volt plug and then im looking at the Hobart 187 and it says from 24 gauge to 5/16" and 220 Volt plug... my first truck we used a miller 251 i believe it was, and we kept it set on the frame and tabs and all the good stuff for 3/16" ... I know it would be worth my money to spend to get the 187, which will probably happen anyways, but the 140 would it do the job like I need it to?

AssDragginSdime · 09-28-2009, 01:51 PM

there are some people on here use a 110 welder for frame work.. I'm a certified structural welder and i know i wouldn't use one on a frame. They are great for bodywork, but i wouldnt put my life in the hands of one..

i used that exact machine (hobart 140) to weld a crossmember i was building for my truck. the crossmember was actually 2 pieces of 2x3 connected by a driveshaft loop, To center the 2x3 we clamped it against a beam and tacked a piece of 2x2 across the center to hold the two pieces in place so we could fit it in the chassis. we tried several times to get the 140 to penetrate the 1/4" 2x3 enough to hold it in place.. and it wouldnt even get the metal hot. This was after grinding the surface and making sure it was free of any oils or corrosion.

i tossed the crossmember after we tacked it, and it just broke apart.. I tried doing 4 1" stitch welds to hold it, Welds penetrated on the 2x2, but didnt even surface penetrate the 2x3. tossed it again, Broke right apart..

Stepped it up to a cheesey no name 220 machine and first try tack welds held it strong enough to work with. After seeing that i will never use a 110 machine to do any sort of structural work.

If you take your time and prep the work, you can get it to work. You can do 8pc notches, because they are 3/16 max thickness, And everything is a corner joint if you set them up right (except where it meets the frame wich is a lap joint) But if you are planning on doing a stock floor, With box tubing, I would most definitely get a bigger machine. Im sure if you grind the mill scale, and put a sharp bevel on all your joints, And then put shear load gussets over every joint, it may work. But i know i would feel much more secure knowing that my machine got 100% penetration every time.

mylostsoul · 09-28-2009, 04:43 PM

Man that is the exact answer I needed , I think I am going to go with what i know and end up buying a Miller 180 ... Miller is the brand I learned both Tig and Mig on so I think I will stick to what I learned on ... Itll be a while, I still gotta move next year where there is a garage and still buy another truck and get a welder ... I got everything mapped out to what the paint will look, what kind of link, what size wheels, body drop all that good stuff, not like my first and be like WTF did i get myself into.... but that was the exact answer ... thanks a lot man

AssDragginSdime · 09-28-2009, 05:35 PM

no problem. Take it for what it is, Its my opinion, there are people on this site who will argue that a machine that small will work, But Until you've welded extensively with a big machine, you dont realize how big a difference it is. I used an old millermatic 250 at my shop, At work, I used mostly millermatic 250s, 300s, and newer 350p's. When you've welded with one of those on 1/4", You can see the weld taking place, and you know that you are getting good penetration from the begining of the weld to the end of the weld.

Mig welders have cold start issues to begin with, When you use an underpowered machine on thicker material, It takes longer for your base metal to heat to the temperature, where you are getting the most penetration. So basically where you start the bead, is going to be very little penetration, And where the bead ends, is going to have the most penetration of that weld. With a larger machine, You avoid that alot more, And your penetration is much more uniform from the begining to the end of the weld. Like i said if your just doing simple shit like Suicide doors 8pc notches, your probably not going to have any issues if you know how to weld good. But if i was doing butt joints on 1/4 wall tubing for a stock floor, I'd want to know that the entire weld is penetrated. I like to weld HOT.. When i finish my bead i like to see the bead and the base metal around it Glow red for a few seconds after i finish the weld.. With a machine that small, your not likely to get 1/4" metal glowing very hot.

If you know how to tig, you should just get a tig. It will take longer, But you will have More uniform penetration, and it will look cleaner if your good.

mylostsoul · 09-28-2009, 06:27 PM

thats what we did on my first truck, ill probably get that Miller Mig 180 first and turn around and buy the tig I learned on cause dude dont use it no more lol, just sits there in the shop lol

AssDragginSdime · 09-28-2009, 07:09 PM

nice.. yea i need to find one for myself. My machine supposedly does tig mig and stick but i had to get a hig frequency box to even get an arc out of the tig, And when i did, it was a very unstable arc. So now im in the market for a syncrowave. My old job i worked at has one sitting in the corner they used to use to fab roll cages for race cars. But nobody uses it anymore. i might ahve to see if i can sneak it out the back door lol

09-28-2009, 11:54 AM	#1
mylostsoul Registered User Age: 25 Join Date: Sep 2009 Posts: 69 Location: User is: OffLine	Question about this welder Hey guys, I have been looking into finally buying a welder, basically to do bagging, bodydropping, body work, all the good stuff I have found a Hobart Handler 140 it is saying it welds from 24 gauge to 1/4" steel and its 110 volt plug and then im looking at the Hobart 187 and it says from 24 gauge to 5/16" and 220 Volt plug... my first truck we used a miller 251 i believe it was, and we kept it set on the frame and tabs and all the good stuff for 3/16" ... I know it would be worth my money to spend to get the 187, which will probably happen anyways, but the 140 would it do the job like I need it to?
	[Reply w/Quote]

09-28-2009, 01:51 PM	#2
AssDragginSdime **** you Age: 23 Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 9,383 Location: from the mean streets of southington, CT User is: OffLine	Re: Question about this welder there are some people on here use a 110 welder for frame work.. I'm a certified structural welder and i know i wouldn't use one on a frame. They are great for bodywork, but i wouldnt put my life in the hands of one.. i used that exact machine (hobart 140) to weld a crossmember i was building for my truck. the crossmember was actually 2 pieces of 2x3 connected by a driveshaft loop, To center the 2x3 we clamped it against a beam and tacked a piece of 2x2 across the center to hold the two pieces in place so we could fit it in the chassis. we tried several times to get the 140 to penetrate the 1/4" 2x3 enough to hold it in place.. and it wouldnt even get the metal hot. This was after grinding the surface and making sure it was free of any oils or corrosion. i tossed the crossmember after we tacked it, and it just broke apart.. I tried doing 4 1" stitch welds to hold it, Welds penetrated on the 2x2, but didnt even surface penetrate the 2x3. tossed it again, Broke right apart.. Stepped it up to a cheesey no name 220 machine and first try tack welds held it strong enough to work with. After seeing that i will never use a 110 machine to do any sort of structural work. If you take your time and prep the work, you can get it to work. You can do 8pc notches, because they are 3/16 max thickness, And everything is a corner joint if you set them up right (except where it meets the frame wich is a lap joint) But if you are planning on doing a stock floor, With box tubing, I would most definitely get a bigger machine. Im sure if you grind the mill scale, and put a sharp bevel on all your joints, And then put shear load gussets over every joint, it may work. But i know i would feel much more secure knowing that my machine got 100% penetration every time.
	[Reply w/Quote]

09-28-2009, 04:43 PM	#3
mylostsoul Registered User Age: 25 Join Date: Sep 2009 Posts: 69 Location: User is: OffLine	Re: Question about this welder Man that is the exact answer I needed , I think I am going to go with what i know and end up buying a Miller 180 ... Miller is the brand I learned both Tig and Mig on so I think I will stick to what I learned on ... Itll be a while, I still gotta move next year where there is a garage and still buy another truck and get a welder ... I got everything mapped out to what the paint will look, what kind of link, what size wheels, body drop all that good stuff, not like my first and be like WTF did i get myself into.... but that was the exact answer ... thanks a lot man
	[Reply w/Quote]

09-28-2009, 05:35 PM	#4
AssDragginSdime **** you Age: 23 Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 9,383 Location: from the mean streets of southington, CT User is: OffLine	Re: Question about this welder no problem. Take it for what it is, Its my opinion, there are people on this site who will argue that a machine that small will work, But Until you've welded extensively with a big machine, you dont realize how big a difference it is. I used an old millermatic 250 at my shop, At work, I used mostly millermatic 250s, 300s, and newer 350p's. When you've welded with one of those on 1/4", You can see the weld taking place, and you know that you are getting good penetration from the begining of the weld to the end of the weld. Mig welders have cold start issues to begin with, When you use an underpowered machine on thicker material, It takes longer for your base metal to heat to the temperature, where you are getting the most penetration. So basically where you start the bead, is going to be very little penetration, And where the bead ends, is going to have the most penetration of that weld. With a larger machine, You avoid that alot more, And your penetration is much more uniform from the begining to the end of the weld. Like i said if your just doing simple shit like Suicide doors 8pc notches, your probably not going to have any issues if you know how to weld good. But if i was doing butt joints on 1/4 wall tubing for a stock floor, I'd want to know that the entire weld is penetrated. I like to weld HOT.. When i finish my bead i like to see the bead and the base metal around it Glow red for a few seconds after i finish the weld.. With a machine that small, your not likely to get 1/4" metal glowing very hot. If you know how to tig, you should just get a tig. It will take longer, But you will have More uniform penetration, and it will look cleaner if your good.
	[Reply w/Quote]

09-28-2009, 06:27 PM	#5
mylostsoul Registered User Age: 25 Join Date: Sep 2009 Posts: 69 Location: User is: OffLine	Re: Question about this welder thats what we did on my first truck, ill probably get that Miller Mig 180 first and turn around and buy the tig I learned on cause dude dont use it no more lol, just sits there in the shop lol
	[Reply w/Quote]

09-28-2009, 07:09 PM	#6
AssDragginSdime **** you Age: 23 Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 9,383 Location: from the mean streets of southington, CT User is: OffLine	Re: Question about this welder nice.. yea i need to find one for myself. My machine supposedly does tig mig and stick but i had to get a hig frequency box to even get an arc out of the tig, And when i did, it was a very unstable arc. So now im in the market for a syncrowave. My old job i worked at has one sitting in the corner they used to use to fab roll cages for race cars. But nobody uses it anymore. i might ahve to see if i can sneak it out the back door lol
	[Reply w/Quote]