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cheap thrills autocross toy

26K views 248 replies 26 participants last post by  barefootskater 
#1 ·
In my quest for cheap thrills, the thought struck me that big (ish) american muscle is easier and cheaper to modify and maintain than anything. so i decided to sell my 1973 turbo vw beetle and buy something i can go fast in, make handle reasonably well, and use every day. Then it hit me, out of all the vehicles I've owned, the ones that were the most reliable and the most fun were the old GM trucks.

Then the hunt began. I wanted a first gen, 2 wheel drive, short bed, manual trans, and a 4.3. I figured I could find one with a blown motor for a couple hundred, rebuild it cheaply, strip the truck add a cage and buckets, slam it, and find decent rubber/wheels. My goal was to buy and build this truck for less than $2000 all in.

A couple months cruising the local classifieds and nothing... everything was either 4x4 or had a 4 banger. Then came a family trip. 300 miles across state to visit some family. So i got on the interwebs and found a prospect. Hazy pictures of a rough looking red 1990. The add just said 4.3 strong runner, $1500. I called the owner and he confirmed it was two wheel drive. And the best part. It was two blocks off the interstate right on my way. So on my way out of town i grabbed $1000 out of the ATM and thought I'd see if he would bargain with me.

This truck is clean. Really clean. Original paint and no rust. The interior is perfect with only one small tear in the seat cover. I drove it around the block and it RAN. Smooth, quiet. Good power. NO LEAKS.

And he took $1000.

So i drove it 278 miles home with no plates or insurance. No problems, and no trouble. Remaining budget $1000.

Now to be honest, I am not counting routine maintenance costs into my budget (tune ups, oil changes, filters, etc...) I will say though that with new plugs, wires, cap, rotor, fuel and air filters, and a TBI rebuild, this thing runs like new.

Trouble is this: This truck is too nice for me to gut out and ruin. So no buckets or cage or racing trim. But on the upside, my wife likes riding in it since i charged the AC.

Couple weeks in I decided to pull the trigger on lowering. Cut one coil off the front and installed 3.5" blocks out back. Remaining budget $900

I plan to install a full exhaust with long tubes, dual 2.25 pipes via mandrell bend kit from Summit, 4.10 rear gears and good rubber. After work today I am picking up some 17" wheels off an 89 slowmaro. All four and two have some good 245-45zr17s for $120. Remaining budget $780.

Any tips on how to best spend money going forward would be welcome. STRICT budget though. And I have some pics up in the lowered first gen thread. More to come.
 
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#3 ·
get 2wd blazer from a 2nd gen, should be 33mm, just swapped one onto my truck and it helped a lot. 25 to 33mm is a huge improvement. i bought that and a rear bar for under 50 bucks at a pick n pull. try to get a rear sway bar from a zq8 TRUCK because it has brackets you can pull off and bolt to your frame for the mounts. other than that, get new rear end with like 3.42 or 3.73 rear gears, itll wake up that truck, i think 5 spd 4.3 trucks got 3.08 gears for mileage. good luck and welcome to the forum!!

Edit; WE LOVE PICS!!!!!! maybe start a build thread?
 
#4 ·
other than that, get new rear end with like 3.42 or 3.73 rear gears, itll wake up that truck, i think 5 spd 4.3 trucks got 3.08 gears for mileage. good luck and welcome to the forum!!

Edit; WE LOVE PICS!!!!!! maybe start a build thread?
It does have 3.08 right now. You think 3.73? I was thinking 4.10. Top speed isn't a concern, and mileage isn't THAT big a deal. I have a 91 scrap astro with 3.24 ratio so I do think about keeping one set up for mileage and swapping it out for race weekends...
 
#5 ·
either/or, you can get either rear end from a junkyard 4banger, they had those ratios (3.73 and 4.10) and even better if you find one with a g80 youll have a posi(ish) its not that great but itll help, wish i could find one for mine for a good price
 
#6 ·
So the guy i bought the truck from said he had just put new rear tires on. the fronts were/are toast, but the rears were used-new tires. So i thought nothing of it, planning to hash these tires out anyway before putting new on... but a closer inspection earlier this week (oversight on my part) revealed that while the fronts are 205-70r14, the rears are a 215-70r14 and a 225-70r14. I love other peoples sloppy work.

Yesterday I picked up a set of 17s with rubber still on them. two different sizes, two are 245-45zr17 (still in great shape) and the others are 255-45zr17 (rotten). So i spent a couple hours with the degreaser and steel wool cleaning the pair with good rubber and painting them so that the rear tires are the same diameter. Turned out ok for using rattle cans in the failing light.

Also here are some pics.
 

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#7 ·
The keen observer will notice that the wheels are not perfect, but they are cool because i did the back sides gold so it looks pretty cool through the gaps. i know that most would have left the alloys unpainted but i like the red/black thing, and paint is cheap.
 

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#9 ·
They were pretty hashed already. Dents and scratches everywhere. Also, I'm not interested in billet anything. And I don't care for chrome either. Plus spray paint is cool anyway because I can pressure wash it off later if I want.
 
#10 ·
That is a clean truck. Nice find. I'm ok with you painting the rims too, they looked pretty trashed. Probably not worth much.

I dig the idea of a cheap autox themed truck, but I would suggest going back and spending the majority of your budget on suspension. Get rid of the cut springs and do it right.

I didn't see how many miles were on your truck? Great looking truck though! welcome to the forum!
 
#12 ·
I am thinking of redoing the front, though it'll take some creativity to keep it in budget with plans for a full exhaust system, ZQ8 steering gear and sway bars, and two more tires. I've only got $780 left. If anybody reading has those parts for sale I'd be interested for sure.

It has 199k miles, though from what i can find it was some old duffers run around from 90-02, and its been treated really kindly. The only sign of age is a bit of oil smoke on startup (though every 4.3 I've seen does that) and some paint oxidization and minor dings.
 
#14 ·
Tall ball joints.

And you should have gone 4wd, not 2

And "big american muscle" is actually the most expensive to make fast, and maintain fast, not the other way around.
 
#15 ·
Tall ball joints.

And you should have gone 4wd, not 2
Why do you say that? I was thinking that in terms of speed, the 2 wheel drive model is ~1000 lbs lighter, and would need MUCH less power to get it going quickly.

And speaking of power, all things being about equal, you can get more power from a chevy s/b (or 3/4 of one) for a given amount of money than you can SAFELY out of just about anything else. forced induction can push anything to huge power levels (I have done it personally) but for simple grunt that will just work and work and work, a big mild motor is better, imo, than small high output plants.
 
#17 ·
What devon said, and he corrected me with awd and he is right, that's what i meant. They also had better suspension geometry. And maybe a few hundred pounds hevier, no where near 1k.

Yes you are right about power, i was speaking to tires, wheels, brakes, chassis. Power doesn't mean shit without the above.

Seriously though tall bjs are going to the best mod you can do.


I run circles around "big american muscle" making 500hp, with my 90hp.
 
#19 ·
I was wondering when you were going to come in.

I said run, not walk :)
 
#20 ·
I hadn't realized that there were AWD models... though i probably would have gone 2WD anyway for fear of more front end weight and thus more understeer... but that's just my relative inexperience with these trucks.

I'm ditching the exhaust for now... budget... so I've got $780 to throw at chassis/steering.

I really appreciate all the input. Looking for experience to help me get moving in the
right direction.

So the consensus is stock springs and tall ball joints? or some combination of drop springs/spindles AND the ball joints? I' aiming for 3-3.5 total front drop, since that's where it sits now and i am quite partial to the wheel being ~centered in the fender. And because its got 3.5 rear drop.
 
#21 ·
Tall ball joints no matter what. They fix so much of the factory front end flaws, they are low hanging fruit.

For handing, you want to spring drop to the point that the upper arm is level, or just past level (wheel side higher than the chassis side). Do not spring drop any more than that if you can. Then get the rest of your target with spindles. Since they come in stock or 2" drop that can be kind of difficult. The lower tall ball joint also gives you a 1/2" drop FYI. So for 3.5, I would run 2" spindlews tall ball joints, so now at 2.5, then dial in the rest with spring.

Nothing wrong with cutting coils except for the ****ed up "open" end. For a daily, I would just get the right springs, for a toy, who cares? For a toy on a budget, its the way to go. If you have a torch, you can just heat up the end of the coil and bend it "closed".
 
#22 ·
Ok cool. So I'll see where the upper arm sits right now with the cut coils, then order the ball joints and only order springs if mine are already past where they should be. If I can get away with not buying springs/spindles that'll be nice. And if the taller ball joints only drop 1/2 of an inch that's great.

Do i get upper and lower joints or just the lowers? I actually work in the auto parts industry but we don't do aftermarket so much so I'd never heard of using taller ball joints before reading on this site. Where would the best place be to buy good ones? Who makes them? I sell MOOG and Ingalls parts at work so if either of them make something that works I'd just as soon have an employee discount...
 
#24 ·
Do both upper and lower. You will need an upper arm that changes the ball joint mounting plane angle to keep the upper joint from binding when you do both upper and lower.

Order 2 rights, not a right and a left. They are shorter than stock allowing you to dial in more camber, or have the same camber with fewer shims, it also tightens up the camber gain a little.
http://www.speedwaymotors.com/Chromoly-Upper-Control-Arm-Steel-Cross-Shaft,5584.html

As far as I know moog doesnt make tall bjs. proforged is the popular option around here
http://www.summitracing.com/search/product-line/proforged-tall-ball-joints

You should be able to do both upper and lowers, and upper arms for just over $300.
 
#25 ·
Awesome info and thanks for the link. Just out of curiosity, why are the control arms different left/right? Seems odd to me...

Also, where would my money be more effective? New gears? or Posi? There is some play in the rear end and I'm not sure if it can be fixed with shims or if the gears are worn... plan is all new bearings and seals anyway
 
#26 ·
Circle track arms, those guys run different size and length everything on each corner.

Posi hands down. It doesnt matter what ratio you have if one wheel is unloaded and spinning. Youll want a torsen (aka worm) or clutch type. Lockers and g80s engage to abruptly.

You can get a torsen from an f body cheap from a salvage yard, you may even find the gears you need too.
 
#27 ·
Are the different style carriers interchangeable? Since mine is a 3.08 I know it won't accept gears for the 3.24 and up carriers. I do have a 3.24 carrier and gear set at my disposal, but if I find a posi setup at a local yard (fat chance) I doubt it would be the right carrier series... Which leaves me high and dry.
 
#31 ·
theres a thread all about this somewhere, i just dont remember well enough to give you an answer either way.
 
#28 ·
That looks like it's gonna be a fun truck. I agree with Sean the first thing you should do is the tall ball joints are tubular UCAs. I also recommend getting a 33mm 2WD Blazer (aka ZQ8) front sway bar. The rear bar will also really help control body roll, but it can cause the inner wheel to start to lift on tight corners in autocross. I've gotten used to it so it's not a big deal for me, you just have to be really careful on the throttle coming out of corners.
 
#32 ·
Rear sway bar- no
As in don't bother with a rear bar? That would save some money... What about those traction bars i see everywhere? I intend to focus more on handling than drag racing, but when there are local races I do intend to run.

Speaking of, there are drag races in my town this weekend. So far my best 0-60 is around 10.5 (using the stopwatch on my phone for what its worth) but that is with terrible launches (ZERO traction) now I have some decent rubber out back I'm hoping i can get this thing into the mid to low 16's. Too ambitious?
 
#35 ·
Suggestion:
Make it roadable (is that a word?) and drive it stock. Change parts one at a time and watch how the truck changes character. Add sway bars, lower, one step at a time. It will make you appreciate the changes.
And.... you will also learn the trucks shortcomings.
 
#36 ·
It is my daily right now. I plan to get a ZQ8 box first, knowing how slow the steering is right now. And front tires. Since i changed the rear (to correct a tire size issue mostly) it's much tighter and i would love the front to gain that feel. And the wider tread has to help. And the body doesn't actually roll that badly, but since the tires will keep it on track better I'm definitely getting the 33mm front sway bar.

I like the idea of one change at a time, but since I am new to the "make things handle better" scene, I'll definitely need advise. I'll probably invest in a camera so i can post videos... maybe that'll help.
 
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