Aftermarket gauge install in 1st gen S10

[greyhnd]

Here is a link to the wiring diagram I've been using throughout this project. The file is in .XPS format and I use Internet Explorer to open it up. I've tried to convert it to pdf and others, but to no avail. I thought this might let you see what I'm looking at and where I'm getting my information.

http://www.mediafire.com/?zwiztwozq3y

[MadMikeZ28]

I'm not opening that link again. Bunch of internet explorer ads pop up and as I try to close them it kicks me off the web!
You did not use the lights power wire for the gauges as well did you? Lights are going to draw more power that the gauges and would make them go down.

[greyhnd]

Mike - Sorry you had a problem with the Mediafire link. I use FireFox and it blocks the pop ups. You can use whatever browser you choose to download the file, it just takes IE to actually open the file...ie Adobe Reader for PDF files. I just highlight, rightclick, choose IE to open with and the diagram comes up.

To answer your question, I used the #1 pin (pink/black) for power to the gauges. I used the gray wire (pin 14) for my gauge lighting power. The gauges, gauge lights and everything else uses a common ground from the factory plug since only one is provided. There are 3 power (pink/black) wires available in the original plug ( pins #1, #3 and #12). If it's a ground problem, what if I ran a wire to one of the bolts that hold the steering column support? I also noticed just a bit ago that a dark green wire goes to the light dimmer. Problem is that according to the diagram for the gauges the dark green is for the water temp sender. That has me confused.

[greyhnd]

Uploaded the wiring diagram to filefront. I just tried it with IE and didn't get any popups. It did go to an advertisement with a line up top to "continue to FileFront" Once downloaded, just right click and highlight, choose to open with Internet Explorer and it should open without a problem.

http://www.filefront.com/14801933/en...components.xps

[MadMikeZ28]

Since you have 3 power wires (black and pink) maybe try to distribute the wires more equaly between gauges. Use one for the volts, one for the tach and oil and temp can share. They most likely all tap into one source but might be worth a shot.

[greyhnd]

Thanks Mike, I appreciate it. Would I also be wise to take some of the stuff away from the original ground plug connection and take them directly to a ground on the body as well?

[MadMikeZ28]

If its just a common ground then I don't think it would matter. Its when its a ground signal from a relay or switch or the computer that I would not like to tap into it too many times.
You should also be able to trace the printed circuit from the back of your cluster and see what power wire went to what gauge and so on.

[greyhnd]

I would've never thought of looking at that printed circuit. Kind of like following a road map I guess. I'll take a look at it in the morning and see if I can make sense out of it.

[MadMikeZ28]

Just remember an inch equals 100 miles

[greyhnd]

That's what I always told my ex-wife before sex...LOL.

I took a look at the printed circuit this morning. It looks like the #1 pin is for the volts, pin #3 for temp, oil and fuel. Pin #12 I'm not sure about, but possibly for gauge lights or the convenience center? If that's the case, then I've got the gauge lighting connected to the wrong pwr supply.

[greyhnd]

This is becoming unbelievable. Went out to take the truck for a short drive and now things are different. Previously, I had readings on the volts and oil pressure and the fuel pegged at full. Now I have no volts or oil pressure readings, the water temp gauge is pegged hot and the fuel is still pegged full. Only difference between today and the other days is it's raining. The truck starts and runs okay, just the weird problems with the different gauges today. I guess I'm going to rewire the whole works and see if that helps. I'm going to split the power between my 3 hot wires as Mike suggested. Could this craziness be from a wacky ground somewhere?

[MadMikeZ28]

Quote: Originally Posted by greyhnd

That's what I always told my ex-wife before sex...LOL.

I took a look at the printed circuit this morning. It looks like the #1 pin is for the volts, pin #3 for temp, oil and fuel. Pin #12 I'm not sure about, but possibly for gauge lights or the convenience center? If that's the case, then I've got the gauge lighting connected to the wrong pwr supply.

I use the metric system. 120mm sounds huge! Women are so stupid they think its like 12 inches

I don't think a whacky ground could be doing it. The gauges are doing something, going to full and all, so the power and the ground is doing something. Did you hook the gauges up properly? + to power, - to ground and signal to the senders?
Asking just in case.

[greyhnd]

Mike - I'm taking the panel back tomorrow if it quits raining. I'm going to split the pwr wires into a couple or three groups so I'll check my connections when I do that.

One other thought that has nothing to do with the gauges. In an earlier post you suggested I cut the factory VSS off and wire the tranny pulse sender to those wires. I cut off the plug that connected to the OEM sppedo and wired into that. Now that I think about it I didn't do that correctly did I? I want to wire into the other side of the VSS that goes to the ECM, right?

[MadMikeZ28]

You want to eliminate the yellow (or yours was blue) box because it is no longer picking up pulses from the speedo and is doing nothing. The tranny pulse sender is now picking up those pulses so there is no need or use for the factory VSS.

[greyhnd]

Okay Mike, thank you. Looks like I need to hack the VSS box off and use those wires instead of the way I have it now. I noticed when I drove it today it was running kind of funky so that is probably why since it was running fine before I switched.

[MadMikeZ28]

Maybe, interfering with the signal to the computer. Little things like the EGR even need to know how fast you're going.

[greyhnd]

A bit of success today. I dmped the OEM VSS so that's out of the way. Seperated the pwr wires. Volts to one by itself, Water, Oil & Fuel to another, and I used a different per source for the gauge lighting. In addition, I also moved the lighting ground to the body all by itself and now my gauge lights work. They're on all the time, but it's not so bad. None of the gauges are working correctly and I'm beginning to think it's a ground problem after all. Water temp pegs hot almost immediately, no oil pressure reading or voltage reading and fuel gauge is pegged full. Will tackle all that tomorrow.

[greyhnd]

I noticed on the my wiring diagram there are 2 seperate wires for the wter temp gauge. The diagram shows one going to the sender post on the gauge and the other to the "check gauges" light. The wter temp gaige is the only thing still not working properly and I only have the wire to the sender connected to the gauge. Do I need to connect the one going to the check gauges light as well?

I grounded everything to the body so everything except the temp gauge is working like it should. Fuel gauge still pegs full, but it did that with the OEM fuel gauge. Must be either a bad ground at the sender or the sender is bad. A friend of mine is going to stop and get an ohms reading for me over the weekend.

Took a few more pics and as soon as I can get a cable to transfer them from my camera I'll post them.

[phantom_mia]

any bets on how long before some nube come in and says he has a problem with installing an after market gauge and has searched and cant find anything

[greyhnd]

I wouldn't bet, but I'm sure it will happen. Although, I was a noob here when I first started this thread. I must say everyone has been helpful and I've learned a lot of different things.

[MadMikeZ28]

Quote: Originally Posted by greyhnd

Took a few more pics and as soon as I can get a cable to transfer them from my camera I'll post them.

WOOHOOO Pics!

Quote: Originally Posted by pantom mia

any bets on how long before some nube come in and says he has a problem with installing an after market gauge and has searched and cant find anything

I bet this thread wount be more that 2 1/2-3 months old.

[bobditts]

hey greyhnd, do you have a link or anything to this new VSS unit you got?

[greyhnd]

bobditts - you can find the speed sensor I have here....www.jagsthatrun.com
You'll need to scroll down to the bottom of the page and on the right side you'll see "speed sensors". Just follow that link and you'll get there. MadMikeZ28 deserves all the credit for leading me to that link. Without him I never would've found it.

[greyhnd]

I swear this truck is making me crazy. I had working gauge lights and working gauges earlier this morning. I was satisfied and decided to button everything up and be happy. I put everything back together, the dash hood on, the light and hvac controls all back in. Fired her up to take a little spin and SOB no gauge lights again. I'm at the point now where I can take the gauges out in about a half hour, so that's not a problem, but I can't for the life of me figure out what happened in just a matter of an hour when I didn't even touch my connectors.

The truck also starts up fine and runs good until it shifts to 3rd gear. At that point it bogs down and feels like it's hitting on only 4 cylinders. If I give it some gas it smooths out, but when I'm off the gas it runs rough again. I checked the connections for the new speed sensor and they seem to be tight. I've also sent an email to JagsThatRun to see if they can help sort out that problem.

If anyone has a suggestion on any of this I'd appreciate it. I'm not quite sure where to start this time.

[MadMikeZ28]

Maybe you have a bad connection and when you put it all together nit blew a fuse?
Also maybe the speed sensor is not hooked up right or malfunctioning. Possibly the computer is allowing vacuum too the EGR. Pull the hose off the EGR and plug it and then see if it still drives the same way.

[greyhnd]

Mike, here is the response from JagsThatRun......

I suggest disconnecting the wires to the vss, and see if the problem goes away.
If it does, recheck the wiring, and wire the vss directly to the ECM.

I think I'll try your idea with the EGR first. If that doesn't make a difference I'll disconnect the VSS and try that. I have an idea that even though the wire connections seem good they might not be. It was a bitch to reach up under the dash and get things connected. I'm not as flexible as I once was...LOL. If I have to wire the VSS directly to the ECM I'm not looking forward to it. Hell, I haven't even been able to find the damn thing. I'll recheck the connection for the gauge lights as well and the fuse panel.

[MadMikeZ28]

The VSS would cause more problems. Its just the first thing that came to mind when reading your running discription was an EGR being open when it should not be. I just figured that would be an easier test than disconnecting the VSS.
Your VSS has two wires and there were more from the OEM VSS, right? Maybe you used the wrong wires.
The ECM should be behind the kick panel on the passenger side

[greyhnd]

Mike, my VSS has only 2 wires and the OEM VSS plug had 3 wires. Brown to ECM pin A10, pink/blk to ECM/IGN fuse, and blk/wht for ground. The brown wire is output#1. I don't have cruise control so I didn't have a yellow wire on the plug. On the other side of the VSS "buffer" there are red, green and black wires. I cut the buffer loose by cutting those wires. The guy at JTR told me not to use the "hot" wire, but to use the wire going to the VSS terminal on the ECM. So, I have the brown wire to one side of the new VSS and the blk/hte for the other side.

What I call the kick panel is the panel down low in front of the passenger door, kind of between the door and the firewall. Is that the panel you mean?

[MadMikeZ28]

Yes that would be the panel. Pretty much two panels get shoe scuff marks on them. The door panel and the kick panel. Might be when it got its name.

[greyhnd]

Well, I checked all my electrical connections and found a few surprises although I won't complain since they were easy fixes. The connection for the gauge lights had come loose so I tightened it up and now I can see the gauges in the dark.

The VSS connections were also not very secure. That part was a bitch to get rewired only because the connections were so far up under the dash. Had to use the old prosthetic off and lean up against the truck trick so I could get myself turned over to reach everything.

Seems to have improved the way the truck runs. I remember when I first bought the darned thing it hadn't been on the road for a few months and it ran like crap. It's been sitting in the drive for at least 5 weeks, so I'll fill the gas tank and give it a few days constant driving before I send the jury home. Mike, once again my thanks to you for all your advice. Most every time it's been of great value.

Now if I can get the pictures off the camera I'll be all set. If all else fails I'll take the chip to CVS and see if I can retrieve them that way.

[MadMikeZ28]

So all is working well (less that prior fuel gauge issue)?

I just had an image. You could be under your truck working and peek your head out from underneath to talk to some one and then point you leg towards your face like to tie your shoe and have people think, "what the hell.... This guy is really flexable".

[greyhnd]

Yup, everything seems to be in proper working order. The temp gauge shows just barely warm, so I'm going to buy a VDO sender that will match the VDO gauge and see if that helps. I had the heter on since it turned colder here today and it about melted my foot so I know it's warming up. Switching out the fuel sender should be a treat. I know most guys say it's a piece of cake to move the bed out of the way, but I thought this gauge swap would be relatively easy....LOL.

Never thought about doing the tie the shoe thing with my leg. I know when I go to my bowling league the guys make fun of me for taking the leg off to put my bowling shoe on. It has it's advantages...LOL.

Thanks again Mike for all your advice.

[MadMikeZ28]

It must be nice when you need to get into a tight spot and limb gets in the way to be able to take it off!

When I did my gauges in my Camaro I used Autometer and they worked with the factory senders. VDO might not. May also want to check the fuel gauge and see if it works with a sender in the 0-90 ohms range.
When doing the sender by myself I have an eye bolt in a main beam in my garage and I use ratchet tie downs across the bed to the hook locations and a come along to lift the bed.

[greyhnd]

Mike, your idea for lifting the bed sounds like a good way to do it myself. It's going to be getting cold here soon so I'm going to do the work in my friends pole barn.

The truck still runs a little rough. Today I removed the vacuum line to the egr and plugged it up. When I started the truck it would barely even run at all. I'm assuming that means its working properly? I'm waiting on my disability check so I can fill it up with gas and drive it for an extended period of time. Hopefully the "sitting without starting" problems will cure themselves. If it continues to run funky I'll wire the VSS into the ECM right at the unit and see if that cures it. I don't understand why it wouldn't work the way I have it wired, through the OEM plug, but stranger things have happened.

[MadMikeZ28]

Removing the vacuum from the EGR should not cause it to barely run. You only want the EGR to work past part throttle at a driving speed. My thought was the ECM was getting the wrong speed sent too it and opening the EGR too soon. The EGR should not even be open at idle.
If it has been parked for a while you may just need to drive it a bit so the ECM will relearn.

[greyhnd]

Took the truck out on the road today for about a 30 mile journey. I t ran pretty good most of the way and didn't bog down after I got up to highway speed and then back to in town driving.

A couple things I have a question about. The speedo is way off which screws up my odometer reading. The speedo was showing me going right at 80mph to actually go about 60 mph. I still have the old speedo cable and on the tranny end of it is an adapter that is slightly offset. Would that be a gear reduction unit? Not sure if I used the correct name for it. If it is, would there be any harm in using it with the new VSS unit I installed at the transmission? Or would I be better served by going to the Chevy dealer and let them figure out what gtranny gear I need to correct the problem? The old speedo read about 10 mph faster than actual speed after I put the recommended size tire on the truck.

One other question. Should I start a new thread for some of these questions or keep this one going? I hate like hell to have threads all over the place for every little situation.

[MadMikeZ28]

Yeah I think that is a geared unit and would think you should install it and then your VSS if it will install that way. (Your VSS is at the tranny?) If the gear unit is first then it will also gear down the new VSS so it reads the proper speed. To get things dead on you need to know your tire size and rear gear ratio and then may need to change your driven gear and maybe the sleeve/housing for it as well (and possibly the drive gear in the transmission).

Just keep this thread. Its all related to your gauge swap. In the future on that rare occasion that a noob searches all you had to go through will come up...... Even the pics

[greyhnd]

MIke, yes the VSS is at the transmission. The ratio correction unit was fitted directly to the tranny before I removed it. I don't think it should be a problem mounting the VSS to it since the threaded ends appear to be the same size as the VSS ends.

What is the difference in the driven gear and the drive gear in the transmission? By the driven gear do you mean the part that will go "behind" the VSS as was just discussed? The parts man at the Chevy dealer told me if I brought the old drive gear in and knew my tire size and the amount of difference +/- between my speedo and the actual speed he could fix me up. does that sound like the truth or is he full of crap.

[MadMikeZ28]

The drive gear is on the output shaft inside the tailshaft housing of the tranny. Most the time that does not need changing. The driven gear is the one that mates with the drive gear. The driven gear is the part that the cable goes into at the tranny.

http://www.transmissioncenter.net/sp...n_______va.htm
Scroll down this page. Close to the top is a chart or the colors and teeth of the gears (gears are color coded so no need to count teeth). There is also a chart to find what gears you need by going with the tire size and rear end ratio. Just down a little farther are the sleeve housings for the driven gear. There are two to choose from. A short and a long. The short is for the smaller driven gears with less teeth to place it closer to the drive gear. Its all pretty easy to follow there.
If that reduction unit of yours works then go with it. But if it was off a bit then I would go with the gear route to get you right on. Just find out the axle ratio. There is supose to be a code on one of the axle tube, , I have had it done in the past, the dealer can check a database with your vin to tell you what ratio was put in the truck. The vin leads too a build sheet basically. And measure your tire height. Don't forget you will loose some with worn tires so it might not hurt too round up.

[greyhnd]

Mike, thanks for the explanation. I knew one was the gear that the cable connected to, but I wasn't sure which one. I'll check out the website and see if I can make any sense out of it.

Do you think the dealer database will still list vehicles as old as some of our members trucks? Mine is 21 yrs old now, so I'm curious. Won't hurt to call and see if they can help me.

After putting the ratio connection adapter on today it seems as though the MPH on the speedo is about where it should be. I'm going to try and verify any differences tomorrow. I checked the distance on the odometer between 2 mile markers and it checked out pretty darn close. I also tried to time 1 mile at 60 mph to see how close I was. Again, it was right in the ballpark. The only other thing I need to do is smooth out the "bend" in the speedo cable so I won't get that ticking sound at low speeds.

Will an aftermarket tach connect directly to the OEM tach wiring? I pulled the tach wires down so they are visavle below the steering wheel. I planned to just cut the wires and splice in the new ones.

Otherwise, all is good for the time being.

[MadMikeZ28]

When I installed the gauges from the Astro van in my mom's truck I used a police radar trap type things that tell you the speed you're driving. I speed up too see how close it was at a faster speed! (lucky there was no fuzz)

A tach will work with the original wire. Its just a signal wire so no need to run a new one from the coil. Then all you need is a power and ground for the new tach.

[greyhnd]

Finally got to check the speedo against a known good one. Looks like I'm about 3 - 5 mph faster actual speed to speedo reading. That's so close it almost scares me, so I'll leave things alone. I was driving at what the speedo said was 60 mph and my friend was running between 3 & 5 mph faster to stay the same distance from me. We tested it over an approximate 3 mile stretch of state road.

[MadMikeZ28]

That is so close. The other speedo could be off by 1-1.5 mph so that could even make yours closer.

[greyhnd]

Mike, that's true about the other speedometer. Although, I trust the accuracy since it's in a 2008 BMW M3 and we all know how the Germans love their sports cars. Nonetheless, I'm satisfied with having that small a difference so I don't think I'll devote any more effort to getting it closer.

On a side note. After driving the truck for a few days now, it seems to be running every bit as well as it did before I started this venture. It also seems to shift smoother. It always had a hard shift from 1st to 2nd gear, but now it "glides" into 2nd. I may be imagining it, but I wonder if the new vss let's the tranny know when to shift better than the OEM one did.It's not important, but I thought it was worth mentioning in case anyone else gets in the same position as I was in.

[MadMikeZ28]

Can we have some pics now pleeeeeeease???

[greyhnd]

I'm going to Evansville late next week and I'll pick up a cable so I can download my camera pictures.

[MadMikeZ28]

Quote: Originally Posted by greyhnd

I'm going to Evansville late next week and I'll pick up a cable so I can download my camera pictures.

,