Aftermarket gauge install in 1st gen S10

[bobditts]

Quote: Originally Posted by phantom_mia

bobditts: that's a parallel circuit(multiple pathways for electricity).

even though the pos and neg of the guages never touch each other? meaning the path of the neg is completely seperate from that of the pos.

[MadMikeZ28]

Phantom, I am the one that told him to hook from one terminal to the next and mistakely called it series. Its been a long time since electronics class and when explaining I do get terminology messed up, but I did explain and think Greyhnd got what I meant.
Its all good.

[phantom_mia]

bobditts: yea they run parallel, if they touch then they short out, the connection between pos and neg is the load(ie lamp, gauge, etc...)

madmike: groovy, i hadn't reread that far up this time

[greyhnd]

Guys, I can see why you were confused. I understood Mike to mean neg terminal to neg terminal to neg terminal, etc and the same for power. I should be good to go now. Also, I took another look at the wiring diagram and it is a gray wire that takes care of the illumination for the gauges/dash. That point is now verified as well.

I swear, I look at the diagrams and read the responses here and it all makes sense. Then when I start to actually do it, my brain turns to jello and I try to second guess myself. The "in series" and parrallel stuff got me confused, but I understood what Mike was trying to tell me. I think I'm straight on it now. We shall soon see...LOL.

Good work guys and thanks for all the help and support.

[MadMikeZ28]

We better get some pics soon after going through all this. It would not be fair for only you to see it!

[phantom_mia]

i'm not pissing in anybody's wheaties so don't take this the wrong way but here's some basic electronic theory to help in the circuit configuration department and possibly alleviate some of the confusion

[greyhnd]

phantom - Looking at the diagram the 12 volt and .5 amp configuration makes sense. The 3 volt and 2 amp configuration has me a bit confused. The way it looks to me is that the power source comes in to the first gauge, then the ground terminal to the next positive terminal and follows that way until the final terminal which goes to ground. Or maybe I should say it looks like power going into and out of each gauge except the last one which ends at ground. Am I thinking correctly or is my brain making this harder than it needs to be? I intend to wire the gauges in parallel, so I'm assuming I should ignore the bottom diagram.

Mike - I swear I'll be posting some pics before this is all over.

[phantom_mia]

yes that's series, if you wire batteries together in series you wire them negitive to positive(like a flashlight), here's a simple series circuit. im trying to keep the numbers and concepts simple because they can go to complicated real fast, real easy.

[jtcfanof3]

Mike, you need to borrow my Electronics 1 book?

[MadMikeZ28]

Quote: Originally Posted by phantom_mia

i'm not pissing in anybody's wheaties so don't take this the wrong way but here's some basic electronic theory to help in the circuit configuration department and possibly alleviate some of the confusion

I don't think there was any confusion until you started posting this stuff.

Quote: Originally Posted by jtcfanof3

Mike, you need to borrow my Electronics 1 book?

Doing it I have no problem with. Explaining over the web and trying to get it clear the first time I do have troubles with.

[phantom_mia]

well awrighty then! pardon me for interrupting

[jtcfanof3]

lol

[greyhnd]

Now, now boys.....play nice! I know everyone is joking around a bit here, but one thing for certain, I appreciate the guidance I've received from all of you and the time you've taken to answer my endless questions.

[MadMikeZ28]

Quote: Originally Posted by phantom_mia

well awrighty then! pardon me for interrupting

Now that I understand!


just don't ask me to explain it.

[greyhnd]

Pulling the factory gauge panel on the beast either Wednesday or Thursday. I read somewhere, not on this forum and for the life of me I can't find it again, that there is a "cable" that operates the gear indicator on trucks with auto transmission. You know what I mean? The Park, Reverse, Neutral....etc indicator. Did I misunderstand what I read, or is this something I don't have to worry about. It would be nice to keep the gear thingie so that my gf can figure out what gear she's in when she drives my truck. Would that be possible?

Another thing I thought of, is that when I look at the a/c/heat control, there is a red "cap" over the nipple that holds the cable down. Is that what I need to make sure I don't break or is the nipple itself? Does the cap just pry off and then snap back on when I put it back together?

Pictures are in the works!

[MadMikeZ28]

There is a thin cable that comes out of the bottom of the cluster and has a flat clip the slides onto the lower plastic sleeve on the column. The sleeve is attached to the shifter bowl and goes inside the curved opening of the dash. Look at the end of that sleeve from underneath and you should see that clip.

Don't know what red cap you are refering to. If its the thing I think I usualy see small black metal one way retainers that are best cut instead of trying to remove in one piece because its cheaper to replace that part than the whole switch assembly for a broken plastic stud.

[greyhnd]

Alright guys, here's a quick update on my progress or lack thereof. I was finally able to get the factory gauge panel out of the truck. It wasn't as hard as I thought it might be. What I think I might do is cut some clearance for the new gauges in both the "green" panel that has the mounting ears on it and also in the gray part that has the orignal speedo, tach, and other gauges. I hate to cut the damn thing all to pieces and make a mess for myself. Has anyone else done it this way? Not sure it's the best idea, but at least it's a start.

[krly79]

I wanted to squeeze all the gauges I could in the dash. It's not perfect, but I like it. I still need to add my turn sigals and my high beam leds.

[greyhnd]

krly79 - You weren't kidding when you said squeeze! I like the panel out of aluminum, it really sets off the gauge faces. I'm doing away with a tach in the dash and adding it in later on.

[MadMikeZ28]

Still waiting for them pics!

[phantom_mia]

krly79 in my humble worthless opinion you need a contrast on your dash, aluminum background with silver trim rings and white face gauges is to much white everything just gets lost in a field of white.

[greyhnd]

A new twist on my gauge install. All the wiring is done and everything is ready to go in the dash, except for one large or small problem....depends on how you look at it. M

The speedo I'm using is an AutoMeter mechanical model 2492. The factory one held the cable in with a clip, this one has a threaded connector. So, obviously this new speedometer won't connect to the cable. I've done a little searching on the web and found an adapter at Summit for just such a situation for VDO speedometers, but it's not available any longer.
Here's the link:
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/VD...art=VDO-200203

I haven't found any others that look like they would work. Anyone have any suggestions about where I might find such an item or if I could have one made somewhere?

[MadMikeZ28]

Well damn. This is gonna be like a whole new bucket of worms for you then.

When I did Autometer in my Camaro I had a two piece cable made. Two piece because you will need to install a hall effect unit to replace the VSS that is behind the OEM speedo.
On the truck you do not need the two piece cable because there is more room for a hall effect unit to go right onto the transmission and then a cable to come off it.

[phantom_mia]

i found this at autometer

Where can I purchase speedometer cables and how can I calibrate my speedometer?

We first suggest contacting Speedometer Service out of Milwaukee, WI. They can assist you with adapters, cable gears, and new cables for virtually every application. The phone number to reach them at is: (414) 463-6660.

Speedometer cables may be purchased at your local auto parts store. Auto Meter speedometers come with a standard 5/8" x 18 threaded cable input that requires a .104" sq. male drive. The speedometer is calibrated for a 1:1 drive ratio (1,000 RPM at 60 MPH input at the speedometer head.)

http://www.autometer.com/tech_faq_an...x?sid=2&qid=10

[greyhnd]

Well I've gotten myself into a spot, or so it seems. I have no clue what a hall effect unit is, I thought I'd have no problem just changing out the speedo's since it is cable drive. I thought I might see if I can have a short "extension" made, with the 5/8" threaded on one end and the clip attachment for the other end to slide into the existing cable. Wouldn't that take care of my problem? What the hell does a hall effect unit do anyway?

[MadMikeZ28]

There should have been a yellow box with wires going right behind your speedo. That is the VSS. The hall effect unit does the same thing. It counts in pulses the revolutions of the speedometer and tells the computer how fast you are going.
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/SUM-G2887-1/

[greyhnd]

Mike - With a mechanicl speedo is that really necessary? Maybe I'm dumber than my ex-wife, but I thought going from a mechanical stock speedo to a mechanical aftermarket speedo would be nothing more than just switching them out. If not for the difference of one being a clip holding it on and the other needing a threaded connector at the speedometer I'd have this truck back together and be back on the road.

[MadMikeZ28]

A man could be brain dead and still smarter than a woman!

Your computer needs to know the speed the vehicle is traveling. That is why there is a VSS. Your OEM mechanical speedo used one. The hall effect unit will just replace the OEM one because that one will not work with an after market speedo.

[greyhnd]

MIke - So if I understand this correctly, the hall effect unit goes between the speedometer and the speedo cable at the back of the speedo? I think I remember unplugging another plug while I was back there. I still don't think this will solve my clip vs. threaded cable conneection problem though. That's the part that has me bugged more than anything.

[MadMikeZ28]

The hall effect unit should go on the transmission between the tranny and cable. There is not enough space behind the cluster.
You may just have to pull your cable out and replace it with one that will work.

5 years ago a 57" cable made by speedometer solutions cost me $56

[krly79]

Quote: Originally Posted by phantom_mia

krly79 in my humble worthless opinion you need a contrast on your dash, aluminum background with silver trim rings and white face gauges is to much white everything just gets lost in a field of white.

Yeah, I know what you mean. the first one I made I painted black, but it wasn't right so I had to cut another one. Once I got it all together to make sure everything worked together, I didn't want to take it back apart again. I wanted it black, but I just don't want to take everything back apart.

[greyhnd]

Mike - I think I get it now. Does it screw in where the gear for the cable drive is? I looked at the truck again, but there is no "box" of any kind near the speedo location. There is a connector that fits in the stock speedo and is connected with three wires...green, black and red.

What would happen if I didn't use a hall effect sensor? I'm a bit dense when it comes to some of this stuff. It seems that since the speedo is cable driven it should just show the proper speed straight from the tranny. Is the VSS or hall effect sensor used for cruise control? That would be the only reason for the computer to need the speed information, right? Hell, if that's the case I don't have cruise on the old truck anyway.

And you're right, I may just have to break down and buy a new cable. Are the stock ones a bitch to get out? I'll have to take a peek under the hood and see if I can figure out where the thing comes through the firewall.

[jtcfanof3]

You could of made it easy on yourself and got the hall effect switch for cable to elec speedo. Autometer makes it for a cable tranny to elec speedo, granted you would need an elec speedo which does cost a little more, but may have been worth it.

[jtcfanof3]

http://www.autometer.com/cat_accesso...l.aspx?vid=114

[MadMikeZ28]

Quote: Originally Posted by greyhnd

Mike - I think I get it now. Does it screw in where the gear for the cable drive is? I looked at the truck again, but there is no "box" of any kind near the speedo location. There is a connector that fits in the stock speedo and is connected with three wires...green, black and red.

What would happen if I didn't use a hall effect sensor? I'm a bit dense when it comes to some of this stuff. It seems that since the speedo is cable driven it should just show the proper speed straight from the tranny. Is the VSS or hall effect sensor used for cruise control? That would be the only reason for the computer to need the speed information, right? Hell, if that's the case I don't have cruise on the old truck anyway.

And you're right, I may just have to break down and buy a new cable. Are the stock ones a bitch to get out? I'll have to take a peek under the hood and see if I can figure out where the thing comes through the firewall.

Those wires go to something, a small yellow box usualy. Maybe yours is located some where else but there should be a VSS for the system. Its not only for the cruise control but also for the computer so it knows the speed you're driving.

Here is a picture of the VSS. You can see the wires going from it to the speedo.

[phantom_mia]

hang on i need a couple 3 or 9 drinks and that picture will be in focus

[MadMikeZ28]

Yeah its a chicken Vivitar specialy packaged for wallymart. Don't ever buy name brand stuff if it says on the box packaged for wallymart. Wally mart seems to get the special crap.

But the color and shape of the VSS can be seen. And what are you doing drinking in the AM!

[greyhnd]

Mike - I have the exact same setup as shown in the picture. When I install the hall effect in the tranny, I'm assuming I'll need to connect the wires to the ones from the factory that are there now. Will I have to make any other connections up in the dash? I still can't see the yellow box anywhere and I've almost stood on my head looking. I'm a bit confused about all the connections and getting everything to work on the speedometer.

jtc - You are right about going from cable to electric speedo. Knowing what I know now if I'd had any sense I would've gone that way. I don't think Summit will take my speedo back after this long period of time. If they would I'd swap for an electrical speedo in a heartbeat and be done with it.

[MadMikeZ28]

If you can not see a yellow box or anything where do your wires lead you to?

[greyhnd]

I'll crawl around in the morning and see if I can run down where the wires lead. Sorry for being such a PITA.

[MadMikeZ28]

To me, a PITA is a person who uses text type messages or crap like wat, ur (you get where I'm going) and it leaves me spending more time trying to figure out what they are trying to get across.

[phantom_mia]

Quote: Originally Posted by MadMikeZ28

To me, a PITA is a person who uses text type messages or crap like wat, ur (you get where I'm going) and it leaves me spending more time trying to figure out what they are trying to get across.

its this new generation they didn't raise the bar they lowered it

[MadMikeZ28]

Quote: Originally Posted by phantom_mia

its this new generation they didn't raise the bar they lowered it

tru dat

[greyhnd]

Okay, I'll type everything in long hand from here on out...LOL. I searched and searched all over that damn truck this morning and still couldn't find a yellow box. I can follow the wires from the VSS plug through the dash and they go to the left, but from that point on I can't see where they go. I can get my hand in there only so far and it feels like they go into a big bundle of other wires, I think, but it's wrapped with electrical type tape. I even took my leg off so I could get in on my back and scope it out, still couldn't see anything resembling a yellow box.

The only thing I'm sure of is that the facory gauge panel has been out of the truck at least once before, so it's no telling what was done up in the dash. I also tried to move the speedo cable around to see how solid it was in there. That sucker wouldn't budge either. Thought I'd check it in case I have to yank it out too.

[MadMikeZ28]

Quote: Originally Posted by greyhnd

Okay, I'll type everything in long hand from here on out...LOL. I searched and searched all over that damn truck this morning and still couldn't find a yellow box. I can follow the wires from the VSS plug through the dash and they go to the left, but from that point on I can't see where they go. I can get my hand in there only so far and it feels like they go into a big bundle of other wires, I think, but it's wrapped with electrical type tape. I even took my leg off so I could get in on my back and scope it out, still couldn't see anything resembling a yellow box.

The only thing I'm sure of is that the facory gauge panel has been out of the truck at least once before, so it's no telling what was done up in the dash. I also tried to move the speedo cable around to see how solid it was in there. That sucker wouldn't budge either. Thought I'd check it in case I have to yank it out too.

I'm sorry, not to make fun or anything but that sounds too darn funny.

Don't know what to tell you about getting to the box. Maybe its stuck inside the harness or bolted to the back side of the dash where you need to take out the dash to get to its plug.
Did krly have an electric speedo originaly so there was not worry about it there as with original electric speedos the sender on the tranny is used. Maybe just don't worry about it now and try running without it. If you have an automatic you may notice the TCC might not work. May also get a service engine light and a code (24???).

You could try a call to speedometer solutions. Rodger Lucklow (if I got his last name right) seems to know his shit. He may be able to help you and give you a location. Also an Autozone may be able to give you a location as well.
Really if I remember right you just need a power, ground and the signal wire from the hall effect unit and the signal wire goes right to the ECM (brown I think)

[greyhnd]

I tried taking the panel under the steering wheel loose so I could look from another angle, but I couldn't get the damn thing unfastened. The truck is sitting in my driveway and it rained all day so I wasn't as motivated as I could've been.

According to the wiring diagram I have, there are 2 wires to the ECM. One is Brn/White and goes to pin A5 of the ECM and pin 11 on the dash connector. The other is Tan/Blk and goes to pin A7 of the ECM and pin 10 of the dash connector. Any idea which one to use or if necessary, how would I connect both?

I'll also try calling speedo solutions tomorrow and see what I can find out. I can tell you one thing for sure, if I have to take out the dash I'll be buying an electronic speedometer and saying the hell with this mechanical speedometer craziness.

And no problem finding the leg comment funny. There I was laying on my back on the floorboard and my prosthetic was standing up next to the truck for everyone to see. Gave me a chuckle when I realized how weird it must of looked from the street.

[jtcfanof3]

LOL I bet!
If you do have an auto, you can bypass that TCC lockup by just hooking up a switch, it's what I did on my V8 swap for the time being. You can buy a conversion for the tranny that will lock up the converter in 4th gear only, about $80.

[greyhnd]

I talked to Rodger at Speedo Solutions and when all was said and done he recommended going with an electrical speedo instead of a cable driven one. I still have to find the damn yellow box, but he gave me a couple clues where to find it. I'll get with Summitracing about exchanging the speedo I bought for a different one, so hopefully I won't hit a wall there. More to follow.

[MadMikeZ28]

You can go with the manual still. I called and spoke with Rodger when I did my Camaro with a cable speedo. I already had the speedo so thats why I stayed with the cable. I told him everything I had, all the way down to my tire size and rear gears and he knew exactly what I needed and set me up with a two piece cable, hall effect unit (even told me what wires were what) and the sleeve and driven gear for proper speed calibration.

[greyhnd]

Mike - He was good to talk to, seemed to know his poop about most everything speedometer. I think I'll call hime back and discuss what he needs to get me going on the mechanical speedo. bY the time I swap my cable for an electrical it will be $100+ at Summit then with the sender being almost another $100 it's going to kill my budget.

I did find the VSS box....finally. It was cable tied to another loom and shoved up above the fuse panel. I was looking for a yellow box and mine is a blue/green color. If nothing else, I know where that sucker is now.