Aftermarket gauge install in 1st gen S10

[greyhnd]

Not sure if this is the proper forum for my question, but since it's a 1st gen truck I thought I'd post it here. I've done the serches and found several posts concerning swapping dashes and guage clusters. None of them address my question.

I have an 88 S10 Ext cab. Stock dash with Speedo, tach, water, oil, fuel and volt gauges. I'm confident I can do the replacement, but my problem is I can't find a mounting panel for the gauges that looks like it will fit into the original dash space. I'd rather not replace the entire dash, but will if it becomes necessary. I've looked at Summitrcing.com, the AutoMeter website and various other places trying to find either a blank piece to fit into the opening or one that is pre-drilled that will fit. Does anyone have a source for such an item? Or is my best bet to have one fabricated from aluminum or other material?

Any help is appreciated. Thanks in advance.

[MadMikeZ28]

I think you will need to fab one up. The only one I know of is from Covan's Classic that fit a 82-86 dash.

[FarEastDime]

Quote: Originally Posted by greyhnd

Not sure if this is the proper forum for my question, but since it's a 1st gen truck I thought I'd post it here. I've done the serches and found several posts concerning swapping dashes and guage clusters. None of them address my question.

I have an 88 S10 Ext cab. Stock dash with Speedo, tach, water, oil, fuel and volt gauges. I'm confident I can do the replacement, but my problem is I can't find a mounting panel for the gauges that looks like it will fit into the original dash space. I'd rather not replace the entire dash, but will if it becomes necessary. I've looked at Summitrcing.com, the AutoMeter website and various other places trying to find either a blank piece to fit into the opening or one that is pre-drilled that will fit. Does anyone have a source for such an item? Or is my best bet to have one fabricated from aluminum or other material?

Any help is appreciated. Thanks in advance.

not trying to be a dick but what kind of other gauges do you need, ive got two, and youve got a hell of a lot more than i do

[Rebel_US]

Quote: Originally Posted by MadMikeZ28

I think you will need to fab one up. The only one I know of is from Covan's Classic that fit a 82-86 dash.

I have an 86, and our clusters are pretty bare: a mechanical speedometer/odometer, a gas gauge and a bunch of idiot lights.

Mike's right in that your best bet would be to fab one yourself, if your up to it. I would head to the local junkyard and buy a replacement cluster for your model to give you something to play with/mod before you rip out your existing working cluster.

They are very simple to work with, and yours will be something like these:










Only 2 years difference, yet a bit of change - I think you have the factory gauges (temp,oil,volts) along the outside of your cluster. But I've seen the 88 gauges and you have that 'tub' in the middle to play with.

The 3rd pic - the gauge on left is fuel - on right the speedometer.

The 4th pic - the cluster connection for lights and idiot lights - yours will DEFINITIVELY be different than these!

[MadMikeZ28]

Quote: Originally Posted by FarEastDime

not trying to be a dick but what kind of other gauges do you need, ive got two, and youve got a hell of a lot more than i do

I think one of us is just being clueless. It looked fairly clear to me that the OP wants to get rid of his original gauge cluster and install all aftermarket.

Rebel
Now that is an 86 cluster from what I thought they were. I originaly started to post 82-85 but looked at covan's and saw they listed to 86 which would be different. Not the first time I found a manufacture listing the wrong years for their own product.

[greyhnd]

MadMikeZ28 - You are correct, I want to replace all the factory gauges with AutoMeter gauges. I'll take a look at the Covan website and see if the piece you mention is close in size to what I need. I'm proficient with 3D modelling programs, so I might see what I can create for a replacement if I have to fab up my own. I have no experience doing the actual building of such a thing, but a guy has to start somewhere.

I also have a couple other questions. I'm assuming that parts from a 1st gen S10 will fit into another of a different year without a bunch of modification? If that's the case it opens up many more possibilities. In the classified section I saw a Cavalier dash that was said to be a "drop in" into a 1st gen S10. Is something like that possible? I've been to a few of the local salvage yards, but there are very few early S10's out there. Is there a reference guide somewhere that is used to know what will fit into what?

I appreciate everyone taking time to answer my original question.

[Rebel_US]

Quote: Originally Posted by greyhnd

but my problem is I can't find a mounting panel for the gauges that looks like it will fit into the original dash space. I'd rather not replace the entire dash, but will if it becomes necessary. I've looked at Summitrcing.com, the AutoMeter website and various other places trying to find either a blank piece to fit into the opening or one that is pre-drilled that will fit. Does anyone have a source for such an item? Or is my best bet to have one fabricated from aluminum or other material?

My whole point was if he takes the grey inside panel and 'shaves' the holes or simply covers it with a piece of 'X' - then he has his mounting panel and can customize it to his hearts content. The work area he has is about an 11" x 6". 'X' is limited to your imagination.

He can keep/toss the clear shield - but the main thing is he keeps is the 4 corner mounting post on the green peice, meaning it will fit back into the dash hole.

Back when I pulled my cluster a few months ago, I was considering the same project and even looked into cutting the copper foil runs to relocate all the idiot lights around the main gauges.

His particular year (88) - if memory serves correct - has 4 other gauges in each corner of the cluster as well as the electrical speedometer, not the mechanical one I run with. The tub area is about the same size.

[greyhnd]

Rebel - I understand what your talking about now that you've explained it so even I can understand....LOL. I do have 4 other gauges in the corners as well as a tach. My speedo is mechanical I think. At least in cold weather it sounds like the cable is dry and rubbing and the needle jumps around like crazy.

When I put in the Auto Meters, I may forego the tach to give myself some extra room. I've even thought about dash mounting the tach,, but I hate to do it that way.

[MadMikeZ28]

I don't think the Cavi dash is exactly drop it. It has a curve where the windshield does not have as much. It has been done and there was a thread with pics in it. Maybe the "Lets see those dashes" thread???

Now the gauge cluster Rebel shows would be simple. Cut out the gauge area leaving enough of an edge to attach another plastic panel to (or aluminum) and cut gauge holes into it. You will get rid of the back with the lights and all because gauges have lights built in.

I had collected AutoMeter gauges for my 84 Z28 and got a Covans panel for it. I drilled out a couple holes for 12volt green LED's for signal indicators and used a mini shift light with yellow cover for the sevice engine light that I mounted on the bottom side of the center dash vents.



My mom's cluster from a 97 Astro in her 84 (work in progress) and her Monster tach location. All done without doing damage to the exterior part of the dash.

[jtcfanof3]

BTW,1988 still had a cable speedo.
Heck ya,you can use anything you want,Ive seen carbonfibre and aluminum,engine turned stainless etc...
Skys the limit here. You can allways get a pillar pod for the small gauges and run a big tach and speedo only in the original cluster location.

[jtcfanof3]

[greyhnd]

MadMikeZ28 - You answered my question about the turn indicators before I could even ask it. I saw an old S10 last night sitting next to a shed. Badly crashed front end on it. Couldn't raise anyone at the house, so I'm going back today to see if I can latch on to it or at least buy some parts. I need something to practice on before I go cutting on the dash in my truck.

[MadMikeZ28]

I like having spare things to tear apart for practice also!
If you look at the Camaro gauge panel in my pics, below the two center gauges near the steering column cut out you can see the green dots that are the indicator LED's. The yellow Autometer light was for the service engine.

[Skullzaflare]

just a crap example of how i planned to do it before i looked at gauge prices,
put a sheet of thin metal, or 1/8" acrylic, and mount 2 3 3/8's speedo+tach, other 4 are 2 1/4
yes, picture is correct on scaling

[CaliCustom90]

I took the piece that rebel showed first and cut into it leaving a border so that I can glue in a piece of plexiglass 1/4" thick and cut to fit right in that rectangular backing. I cut my two holes for the tach and speedo into the 1/4" piece and also had to gut the green section behind the front section for the backs of the gauges. Took out the factory circuit grid and re-wired it. The only lights now in that gauge cluster are the blinkers and the bright light indicator but still in their same locations. Used some filler around the edges of the new backing.

Ist a inj to carb conv. sorry I do not have any pics of the process but here is the result and yes it was brushed with a hammered paint.

7.JPG

[greyhnd]

Lots of very good suggestions here and I appreciate it.

Skullzaflare - Now I remember seeing that photo in a different thread. Looks darn spiffy the way you have the gauges laid out. I really like the brushed faces on those gauges.

CaliCustom - I like the hammered paint. Didn't know there was such a thing.

Does the complete dash need to be dropped down to remove the gauge bezel? I was crawling around my truck earlier and it looks at first glance like the bezel will pull out without removing the dash. Am I on the right track or is it wishful thinking?

I also talked to a guy about the truck I saw next to the shed. It belongs to his son who is still in Iraq. The man said he's had several people stop and ask about it, but for now it's not for sale. Damn it!!!

[MadMikeZ28]

The speedo cable may make it feel like the cluster is hanging up. It may make it easier to disconnect it at the trans and push it up through the hanger and into the firewall.

VHT by PJ1 has a wrinkle finish engine paint. Leaves a nice texture. SP201 the black part number. They also have other colors.

[jtcfanof3]

That hammered paint is pricey BTW.
Its not a pull apart in 2 minutes,you need to remove the light switch side of the bezel,then the HVAC controls,ither by unhooking the vacuum lines or just remove the faceplate(4 1/4 cap head screws) then you can get at the 4 10mm nuts with a long extension,then remove the bezel. Now you can remove the cluster,same threads as the last 4 10mm nuts. Now give it a tug and it should come right out.
Oh ya,remove the 6-8 screws under the bezel before you remove it.

[Rebel_US]

[quote=greyhnd;6363966
Does the complete dash need to be dropped down to remove the gauge bezel? I was crawling around my truck earlier and it looks at first glance like the bezel will pull out without removing the dash. Am I on the right track or is it wishful thinking?

[/quote]

You can pull just the cluster: http://www.s10forum.com/forum/f135/h...n-dash-402876/

[greyhnd]

Thanks guys for the info on taking the bezel/cluster out. The light side of my bezel is broken in a couple places. I'm thinking of trying my hand at glassing and repairing it. If I can figure out an easier way of replacing/fixing it I'm going to do it all at once.

[MadMikeZ28]

You can get a two part rigid plastic repair material in tubes. Check in an automotive paint store for it. Prep that back side and back it up with a uni woven drywall tape. SEM has it in rolls but I think its cheaper at the hardware store. The stuff looks like screen from a screen door. Use it as if its fiberglass matt and the repair glue as if its resin. Then V out the front side and fill it with the repair glue and sand, prime and paint.
Fiberglass resin may get too hot for that thin plastic and cause it to warp if not melt.

[greyhnd]

Thanks Mike for that tip. That sounds like just what I need and a damn sight easier than fiberglass. i didn't realize that the fiberglass resin created that much heat. Thsi dash and gauge work is my project for July. Thank goodness I'm starting early in the month...LOL.

[thatoneguy29]

to everybody

can you use the stock wireing to hook up the aftermarket gauges (hotwire)

?

[MadMikeZ28]

I used all the factory wires in my Camaro. I pulled the factory plug from the dash, it just snaps into an opening. Cut off the plug and used those wires onto my own set of plugs for easy removal.

[jtcfanof3]

Not usually,you'll get sending units with most gauges,but some you'll need to buy seperate,I had to on my temp gauge in my V8 Blazer.

[MadMikeZ28]

I think I only changed my oil pressure sending unit. I used the OEM temp and fuel sending units.

Oh and the OEM volts sending unit.

But, I still used the factory wire for the Oil pressure. I just cut the flat connector off and installed a ring connector. If you have them you can install a flat connector adapter to the aftermarket sending unit so you do not need to cut the original end off.
Wires is wires..... Unless its a resistance wire.

[jtcfanof3]

Ya,Im using my stock volt gauge wires on my V8 and stock wires on the V8 oil sending unit(gauge is off though)but my aftermarket water temp gauge wouldnt work with the 2.8's temp gauge sending unit and or the wires,it was a PITA for somereason.
I should say,its stock wiring and stock gauge cluster except the temp.
Here is my V8's setup:

See my oil pressure gauge is pegged,but it was running normal when I pulled it out of the truck,so ither the gauge is messed up or something. My stock tach is off,I found a website,or I should say I found a site and forgot what it was,they tell you what resistor to use to make it work right. But my fuel gauge and volts etc all work from stock.

[greyhnd]

jtcfanof3's guage cluster and bezel is exactly the same as mine. The left side of the bezel, the part that surrounds the light dimmer and switches is the part of mine that is cracked in about 4 different places. There's even a chunk of it that has fallen out. That will be the part I'm going to repair as was discussed earlier in the thread. You'd think a person could find a replacement piece online somewhere, but so far I've had no luck.

[greyhnd]

Thought I'd update on my progress with this dash project. I got the cover over the light switches off and it's prepped and ready for repair. Will be doing that tomorrow. It came off in 3 pieces, so I've got it clamped together until I put the resin on it.

I also had to lower my expectations on the gauges. I wanted to get the AutoMeters, but I had to buy 4 tires for the truck today so that blew my budget straight to hell. I looked at Summit and found a couple VDO gauge kits for $150 apiece. One is the Series 1 set the other the Cockpit set. Just speedo, water, oil, volts and fuel, no tach included. The speedo is mechanical which is what mine is now, so I thought it wouls be an easier swap. From what I've read, the VDO gauges are not too bad. Accurate and reliable despite the lower price. Anyone here ever use the VDO gauges?

[jtcfanof3]

Did you check the AutoGauge prices? Or even the Summit brand,AutoGauge is the little brother of AutoMeter and I know Summit's gauge are good as well,its what Im using as my digital temp gauge in the V8. Its very accurate,checked it with my laser temp gun.

[greyhnd]

I didn't look at the AutoGauge or Summit brand prices. I'll give them a look and see how they compare. Thanks for the info.

[asfasasu3]

One warning about LED's. They are BRIGHT in the dark. I used 2 small green led's for our turns and a single blue for our brights. After our first night drive, I painted the tips black.
jtcfanof3, Our Sunpro tach is adjustable, meaning you can change the setting on the back to correct it. It is older, but it looks sim to yours.
I used a sheet of aluminium to make ours. Our speedo hit the duct work and I had to heat it and remold it slightly. Heres ours

[jtcfanof3]

My tach is a Summit brand,not Sunpro,and yes it is adjustable,but what I'm talking about is my factory tach in the cluster,see how it reads different.

[MadMikeZ28]

All LED's are not made equal. They not only can be found with different viewing angles but different lumins (or wave lengths, how ever they meassure the brightness). The ones I used were LED's in green holders from radio shack. Not too bright at all.

[greyhnd]

Off to the salvage yard to see if I can find the piece that surrounds the light switch. I had to make a jig to hold the broken one together, otherwise the pieces were shifting out of alignment. I think it will be okay once I'm done, but just in case......

I decided on an AutoMeter speedo and VDO oil, weater, volts and fuel gauges. Black faces with chrome bezels. Trying to decide if I want a black panel or maybe one fabbed out of sheet metal. Would show off the black gauges that way.

[phantom_mia]

asfasasu3 have you considered putting a resistor in front of the diode to reduce the amount of power going to the led and dimming it that way? if you wanted to make it tunable get a potentiometer the you could adjust it

[MadMikeZ28]

Quote: Originally Posted by phantom_mia

asfasasu3 have you considered putting a resistor in front of the diode to reduce the amount of power going to the led and dimming it that way? if you wanted to make it tunable get a potentiometer the you could adjust it

....A light dimmer for the turn signal indicators

[asfasasu3]

I had not thought of it till I read your post. lol!! I might give that a try. The turns are not to bad, they are not on long enough to really bother me. The high beam indacator is the one that really hurts!!

[disturbing V6]

Here is what mine looked like. Since these pics I've changed the interior around with gauges and switch panel. But the gauges are under the dash not in the main bezel. But a custom dash panel will let you do what ever you like.

[greyhnd]

I'm still trying to decide what to use for the gauge panel. I bought some 22 gauge steel last weekend, enough for about 3 trys at getting the gauges arranged the way I want them. I'd rather use acrylic, but I'm having a problem locating any here locally. I've checked at the home centers, the parts stores and even went as far as trying a company that makes custom windows. The window place has some, but are unwilling to sell a piece of it.

There are some "hobby" stores in Evansville so I may check them out and see if they can help. Any other suggestions besides using online sources?

[MadMikeZ28]

Let your fingers do the walking???? Fvck looking in the internet yellow pages. The phone book is still a better way to search. I am in need of some clear for a custom bezel and I knew of one place. Look in the pages and found a lot more.

[phantom_mia]

i wouldn't use sheet steel, aluminum would be better and if you **** up you can recycle and get some of your cash back, also if you get it right you could polish the aluminum and make it nice another suggestion is use cardboard for sizing and fitting gauges

just a couple thoughts

[MadMikeZ28]

Cardboard is great for mock up. Well sometimes not so great but it still works. I made a cardboard mock up for my switch but when I opened up the mock up and used it as a template to cut out my first panel it was not exactly right as the cardboard moved too much,lol

[greyhnd]

That's a good suggestion about using aluminum instead of steel. It just dawned on me that unless I paint the steel it might rust. I'll do as Mike suggested and let my fingers do the walking. They need the damn exercise anyway...LOL. I've been using cardboard to make some layouts for the gauges. It does make it easier.

Another quick question. I noticed that the stock panel is pretty shallow. I'm going to cut the back out if it so tht I can use the mounting "brackets" to put it back in. I thought of using a jigsaw to cut the back out, but the more I think about it, I'm not sure that's the best way. Is there a good way to cut the p[lastic out of the way for my clearance? A Dremel tool maybe? I don't want to break the damn thing while I'm cutting it.

[MadMikeZ28]

I used a dremel type tool to cut my cluster and parts of the dash.

[greyhnd]

Found a source for the acrylic plastic I've been looking for. My neighbor told me to call the sign shops and see if they had scraps or would sell me a piece. I hit the motherload, or so it seems. One of the places said he has cut offs in different colors and sizes if I want them. If the piece is too large he'll charge me, but otherwise he just throws the stuff away. Going there tomorrow to take a look.

I'm also going to have to get my hands on a dremel. As popular as they are surely one of my friends has one I can borrow. If not then I'll buy one.

[MadMikeZ28]

I never owned a dremel. I have a black and decker that I got from the Snap-on tool guy. I just replace all the bit with the dremel because they are easier to find at the store.
Or if you have a Big Lots I found a dremel type tool with lots of bits for real cheap. Its not a very powerful tool. I mostly got it for all the bits. But one may be fine for you small plastics work.

[phantom_mia]

my baby die grinder is a craftsman, they had this great deal of a tool box, hand wand, and tool for like $70 with some basic bits, i use it for all kinds of stuff like models, cleaning my firearms, polishing, deburring etc.... the only bad part is when it cranks up it sounds like a dentist drill

[greyhnd]

I checked the harbor Freight website and they have a couple different tools like a dremel. Not one was more than $30. They have a walk-in store in Evansville, about 45 miles from here. My leg man is in Evansville and I need to have my leg adjusted so I may swing by there while I'm in town. There's also a big pull-a-part yard there and I may add that to my list as well. I'm hoping I can find an extra auge panel and a heat-a/c control is case I fork up the one in my truck now.If I'm lucky I may get this wrapped up by the end of the month

I appreciate everyone trying to help me out and answering my sometimes stupid questions. If I can get this done it will be a great confidence booster for future projects.

[MadMikeZ28]

Quote: Originally Posted by greyhnd

I checked the harbor Freight website and they have a couple different tools like a dremel. Not one was more than $30. They have a walk-in store in Evansville, about 45 miles from here. My leg man is in Evansville and I need to have my leg adjusted so I may swing by there while I'm in town. There's also a big pull-a-part yard there and I may add that to my list as well. I'm hoping I can find an extra auge panel and a heat-a/c control is case I fork up the one in my truck now.If I'm lucky I may get this wrapped up by the end of the month

I appreciate everyone trying to help me out and answering my sometimes stupid questions. If I can get this done it will be a great confidence booster for future projects.

So I take it when you use the term "Leg Man" its not in the common use meaning the person who rund errands???? Took me a while to figure that out!