---- Official Lifting Frequently Ask Questions FAQ'S Thread -------

[Dragginbody]

We are putting together a [B] [COLOR=Blue]ultimate s-series FAQ [/COLOR] [/B] list. this will cover about every section of the forum. there are many faq's here in the lifting section.

i am gonna need some input from all the moderators and members who frequent this section.

this is not going to be a discussion thread.

if you have something to add, just post the question and answer. it may be used, may not be.

i dont know much about lifting and we dont have many moderators that know alot about lifting so i am going to need alot of help from you lifted members!

thanks for any help, Kris

[Dragginbody]

hello any input is needed here.

[Fry98]

I'll post some basic FAQs tomorrow for the 4WDs. I'll need some help w/ the 2WDs, though, I don't have alot of experience in lifting and what hits/fits on them.

[The Red Baron]

[QUOTE=dragginbody]
i dont know much about lifting and we dont have many moderators that know alot about lifting so i am going to need alot of help from you lifted members!

thanks for any help, Kris[/QUOTE]What does it take to be a moderator here?

I have polished my 2wd lift Faq and posted it below.




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[font=Arial][b]Issues With Lifting a Two Wheel Drive S10:[/b][/font]



[font=Arial]After I lifted my truck I went through ball joints way to quick and I couldn’t get it within proper alignment specs so I decided to take my problem truck to Fabtechs headquarters and see what they have to say about this! The gray haired tech that inspected my truck would only tell me that my rims and tires are not what Fabtech recommends with their kit because they’re too wide and that is causing my problem. He is the one that got me going on the leverage and pivot concept. Since I wasn’t going to take the only "legally responsible" suggestion of putting on 15x8 rims with 31/10.50 tires (30 inches by 8 inch tread, yuck!) I figured out an experiment to try. That was to buy another set of 3/4” Fabtech spacers and yes, double them up. I bought aircraft grade 9 bolts and tried it. WOW! I actually had a smooth ride but I lost 1.5 inches of ground clearance under my cross member! I went from 20 inches to 18.5 but, problem solved I thought. I’ll just have the assembly Mig welded and gusseted. Until, I brought it down to the alignment shop that same day. Now before with 1 set of spacers I had no caster or camber adjustment (but camber was within spec) because the Fabtech upper A-arms were too short, now with 2 sets of spacers the arms are too long! Now I have custom ¼ inch spacers. The ball joints were breaking because they are not meant to take lateral force. The weakness and stiff ride of the short arm lift kit isn't the kit but the ball joints and the stock suspension geometry. Let me explain. Since the stock upper arms are so much shorter then the lowers when the suspension travels down (like when the truck is catching air) the upper arm swings dramatically more down and is in a 7 O'clock position while the lower arm is at 8 O’clock. Stock both are at 9 O'clock (level) On the landing the upper ball joint is in it's weakest position when it takes the maximum force. Poorly setup lift kits will be setup with the upper A-arms at an extreme downward angle during normal operation and will be taking weight off of the coil spring! When I had this setup the ride was so bad I could hardly light my cigarette while driving on pavement without burning my mustache. Stock style ball joints are just not made to take horizontal force like that against the stamped sheet metal cup. That is where Uniball ball joints, aftermarket limit straps and ball joint spacers come in handy. The trick to the setup is you have to use the proper amount of ball joint spacers to get the stress off of the upper arm during normal on and off road travel and use limit straps or larger droop stops for the occasional wild off roading. For me due to the 15x10 rims and 33x12.50 tires the proper ball joint spacing is about an inch. That's because wider tires and rims have a much greater leverage to push top of the tire horizontally toward the frame using the lower ball joint as its pivot axis. If my upper A-arm is at too much downward angle there is enough force horizontally to push the upper ball joint closer to the frame increasing my lift height and tearing up my upper; ball joints, A-arms and mounts. The Fabtechs spacers are 3/4 inch and are still too short. By using a set of longer A-arms this problem of transferring weight to the upper arms is eliminated and puts it all back to the lower A-arm and coil spring where it belongs. However you are now putting much more weight to the coil spring because of the increased leverage the longer arms have and the weight taken off of the upper A-arms. [/font]



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[font=Arial]So I do NOT suggest any short arm spring and A-arm lift kit. Short A-arm kits from Fabtech, CST and AIM all rely on factory geometry that’s not good for lifting. It’s just too hit or miss with nasty ball joint or frame cracking problems. I have braced the upper mounts by welding in gussets under the cross bar bolts and where the stock droop stop was cut off. After those started cracking from my ball joint test sessions I went with 1/4 inch thick plates that run down the outside of the upper A-arm mounts 1 to 1.5 inches and across the frame for 3 to 4 inches. [/font]



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[font=Arial][b]Lift Kit Recommendations:[/b][/font]



[font=Arial]If you just want a few inches then go with the 3.5 inch $400 Fabtech spindle and $100 stainless steal break lines, it’s a good choice. Fabtech has the best design and is used by other quality lift kit companies like California Super Trucks (Commonly known as CST) with their 5.5 inch lift kits. You won't be disappointed in the quality. Fabtech is the only company to make a spindle with a solid reputation. The $280 3.0 inch lift spindle by AIM industries (sold under several names like Chassis Tech ect) is the only other company to cast a S-10 lift spindle and they have been known to break from what I hear. So stay away from the 3.0 lift spindles. If you decide to find a Fabtech set used on Ebay be sure to get the right style due to the different break caliper design from 99 to 03. Longer stainless steel brake lines will also be needed. This type of brake line has a plus and minus. The plus is that they will not expand under pressure (while the break pedal is depressed) like the factory nylon corded rubber break lines do. The result is a much firmer break peddle and increased pressure to the pads. This means it takes less foot pressure to stop the truck. The minus is that because they are so rigid they tend to flex most at the ends. DOT approved braided steal break lines will have some type of support near the ends of the braded steal hose. If the break lines don’t have this added support the line will fray near the fittings and will fail prematurely. Only get DOT approved Stainless steal break lines. [/font]



[font=Arial][img]http://www.prerunners.net/members/albumphotos/PA312456_full.jpg[/img][/font]



[font=Arial]Next step for just a little more tire clearance I'd suggest a $120 Performance Accessories 3 inch body lift kit. Some people say a body lift raises the center of gravity too much. I disagree. To achieve increased tire clearance you have to raise the fenders or cut them. Since there isn’t much to cut on the second gens we’re stuck. A body lift will increase your center of gravity some, but not near as much as a suspension lift that raises the motor, trans, frame ect. The reason a 3 inch lift kit only fits the 94 model year of the second gens is due to a difference in the lower steering column shaft. The 95 and up use a splined shaft. If you want a custom shaft made try Borgeson.com. If your heater line on your truck is like my 94 V6 you'll need a Gates 18751 from your local parts store. My heater hose makes a sharp 90 degree turn down from the firewall to the back of the intake manifold. Both ends are different sizes 5/8 top and 1/2 at the bottom. With the kit I just got a 5/8 hose to use on the power break booster and the heater line. NO WAY was that hose going to make the bend down without kinking. The gap guards were originally made in southern California by a guy in his garage out of big rig inner tubes. He made templates with cardboard first.[/font]



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[font=Arial]For those of you that haven’t bought a lift kit yet you may want to consider the AIM long arms ($650) verses the CST long arm kit ($1800 to $2500 depending on options). I am thinking that because they both use 2.5 inch longer arms so most of the problems we have with the short arm lift kits will be minimized if not eliminated. The AIM kit just does it for half the cash. Either setup is capable of being broken with enough abuse. The CST kit’s strength is a well earned reputation for quality parts and they have welded on a large one inch Uniball ball joint. The only problems I have heard about with their setup is that they don’t use a factory style tapered pin. Instead they use a 5/8 inch grade 8 bolt that can oval out the spindle over time on street driven trucks and they use a softer coil spring that doesn’t give as much lift. AIM has a questionable reputation that the company service and support sucks. People who have bought their long arm kits though are happy with the hardware and ride quality. I have no direct information other then what I have read and herd from the owners of each kit but I have just purchased the AIM kit and will install shortly. For shocks, the so called front “3 inch S10 lift shocks” are actually shocks originally designed for the 91 through 99 Chevy C2500 (¾ ton) 2WD Suburban and are just relabeled. A quality self adjusting gas charged shock is highly recommended such as the Bilstein BE5-2422 and is what I use.[/font]


[font=Arial][img]http://www.prerunners.net/members/albumphotos/PC092614_full.jpg[/img][/font]


[font=Arial]Lets talk about coil spring rates now. A mild lift spring such as the [color=black][font=Arial]Moog 5664 springs (760 LBS) and Moog 5662 springs (706 LBS) is a good choice and doesn’t require new A-arms. The 5664's will give a 2.2 & 2.5 1 1/2" of lift and a 4.3 1 1/4" of lift. The 5662's will give a 2.2 & 2.5 1 1/4" of lift and a 4.3 1" of lift. This is after the spring settles.[/font][/color] Some slightly longer (3/4 inch) springs that also have higher rates but require tubular A-arms are the Fabtech 7268-2 for the 4 cylinder standard cab is 710. The Fabtech 7268-3 for the V-6 extended cab is 750. The Fabtech 7268-4 for their discontinued long arm setup is 800+. Full size truck stock spring rates vary from 760 to 870 depending on the model and the ton capacity of the truck. If you plan on installing the lift kit yourself I have the trick to installing the coil springs. Only do this if you are an experienced mechanic and take all safety precautions. A compressed coil spring is vary dangerous. Follow the shop service manual instructions. This is merely an added technique I discovered to complete the job much faster. This at first took me all day. Now I can now start the job after work and be done in time for dinner. Place the coil spring on the lower A-arm and twist it to the groove so you know what half is facing the engine. Grease the threads on the inside coil spring compressor because your going to compress a 15 inch spring down to 10 inches. Insert the coil hooks from the compressor kit one coil in from each end. Now slide it off center towards the engine side of the spring until it stops but the hooks remain firmly in place. Now when you compress the spring it will bind it into a slight “C” shape. This will give you the added clearance to clear the lower section of the coil spring cup on the frame. Once in place as you release the pressure on the spring make sure it sets properly into the seat on the top too (as shown above). If you don’t seat it properly on top it will tear up your frame. After you bolt up the spindle and remove the spring compressor tool, double check the spring placement by looking up through the lower shock mounting hole. [/font]



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[font=Arial]Ok, now to the rear end. Since a spindle lift only lifts a little more then leveling out most trucks I will only look to the rear end as the last step. There are two ways to go. One is more dramatic then the other. The first way is to use hangers and/or shackles and shocks. Remember that if you put on a 2 inch lift shackle it will only give you 1 inch of lift. Think of it this way. If you have a 5 foot bar you raise one end 2 inches the net result for the middle of the bar is 1 inch. Now think of the spring as the bar with the axle in the middle. Since the axle is bolted to the middle of the spring the net result of the 2 inch shackle lift is 1 inch of lift. Next is the hanger, the leaf spring mount closest to the front of the truck. A CST 2 1/2” hanger will give a 1 1/4" lift to the axle. For the shocks look for Suburban rear shocks for up to 1.5 inch of actual axel lift and go to the 4wd ZR2 S10 rear shocks for a 2 to 3 inch lift. Add-a-leaf will add about 1 1/2” lift but makes the ride very stiff so I don’t recommend them. The second more dramatic lift is the flip kit. It puts the axle under the leaf spring instead of over it. It will be 4.5 to 5 inches of lift. You will probably have to weld it in or the flip kit will break off the stock spring perches. Mine broke the first day. The factory perches just aren't made to take pressure from the other side. From there you need to move the axle assembly forward 3/4 of an inch forward on the spring. This will help make up the distance in the driveshaft splines and e-brake cables. Lastly you have to keep the lower shock mounts under the spring to keep travel and ride quality. You keep your factory hydraulic break line but you will have to bend the bracket up that is bolted down to the pumpkin cover. Your pinion needs to point directly forward (level). Don't point it up towards the back of the trans. As the U-joints rotate on an angle the driveshaft speeds up and slows down with every revolution. One end equals out the other, unless they do not have the same angle. In that case they will speed up and slow down the pinion and you'll feel it vibrate the whole truck. With a flip kit your lower shock mounts will still be under the leaf springs. This means you got a 5 inch lift and you can use stock replacement S10 shocks. I use and recommend the $59 Bilstein B 46-1681 for the 82 through 99 S10. If your going to get a whole new rear end to weld in the flip kit just make sure it's from a 2wd, the 4wd rear ends are wider. I got my 3.73 Posi at a pick your parts salvage yard for $65 axle to axle. Look in the glove box for the axle codes. The 2wd, 4wd S10 and full size trucks use the same codes. If it has a factory posi it will have a G80 code. The other G codes are GU2=2.73, GU4=3.08, GU6=3.42, GT4=3.73 and GT5=4.10. Happy hunting! Summit Racing carries a spool that fits some of the S10 10 bolt rear ends for about $85 and PowerTrax makes a Lock Right Locker for the open 10 bolt differentials.[/font]



[font=Arial][img]http://www.prerunners.net/members/albumphotos/PA312463_full.jpg[/img][/font]



[font=Arial]Yours Truly,[/font]

[font=Arial]Steve[/font]

[Dragginbody]

[QUOTE=The Red Baron]What does it take to be a moderator here?

[/QUOTE]



well it takes someone who first of all has a good attitude. someone who can donate their time and expertise to the forum helping people out.


mods gotta try to set a example for other members to follow.

[jimmyboy8301]

i have 2 Zr2's 1 lifted and 1 will be in 2 weeks. I know a fair amount about them and 4x4's and would love to help people and donate my time to teach others what i know.

[trialsintrigger]

Hey guys I am here to help. I have done a sloid front axle (SFA) swap in my driveway and a smog legal motor swap also in my driveway. I have currently gotten a job at a shop doing lifts and lowering so my knoledge has become even greater. If there are any questions please pm me and I will post the answers on here and write you back. I am not too sure what you all want to hear here because it has been so long since my truck was stock and I was trying to figure out what I wanted to do with it. But I know these trucks very well and I know a lot of ways to modify them to get different things from them. I did also do the cheep lifts before I did the SFA. I am also not limited to just S-10s I have helped lift a 93 Suburban over 22" and we are currently building a golf cart with about 3 feet of lift with a 4 link up front and probably a 2 link in the rear for now. I don't know much on tire/rim questions as I am the kind of guy to just cut body panels to make what I want fit. Please ask me questions though as I am stumped on what you all would like to know.

I also wanted to ask The Red Barron how did you get into Azuza unless it was a weekday. You are not supposed to be in there without 4x4. I am not going to tell anyone though.

[Fry98]

2nd Gen 4WD stuff:

Biggest tire on a stock (non-ZR2) truck/Blazer: 30x9.50s on stock wheels
Biggest tire on a stock ZR2 truck/Blazer; the stock 31s on stock wheels
All 4WDs came with the same size stock wheels, 15x7 with 6" of backspacing
4th Gen F-body wheels fit on 4WD trucks/Blazers.
Aftermarket wheels on a stock height truck must be as close to stock BS as possible or rubbing will occur.

The following susp. lifts are made for the 2nd gen 4WDs:
2" Superlift/Rough Country: consists of new UCAs and t-bar keys
5" Trailmaster: full drop down kit, maintains stock front end angles (except d-shafts)
5" BDS: " "
6" Superlift: " "
7" Truckin' Suspensions: not familiar with this brand, but they are not a well respected company. All of the above lifts except the Trailmaster and TS are available for both reg. trucks/Blazers and ZR2s...they do have diff. part #s, though. The Trailmaster and TS lifts are for reg. trucks/Blazers only.

If you own an Autotrac (4 buttons) vehicle, you will need a new front driveshaft made because the stock one will vibrate and fail due to it's spinning all the time. Instatrac (3 button) vehicles can use the stock front d-shaft, but will eventually need a new one (if you use 4WD often) because of the increased angle of the shaft. Tom Woods is one company that can make these shafts for you.

Performance Accessories and BDS make 2" bodylifts, all of the neccessary parts are included.
Trail master makes a 3" kit that some have modifed to fit newer years (it's for '94 and older). This modification consists mainly of elongating the steering column holes to allow the column to drop enough so it doesn't bind when turning.

Cranking the torsion bars will yield anywhere from 1-2" of front end height. Anything over an 1" or so will cause accelerated wear on the front end components. An alignment is neccessary afterwards. The t-bar adjusment bolts are located at the crossmember where the torsion bars are. Tightening them raises the truck...be sure to jack the front tires off the ground first. Generally speaking, 1 turn=1/4 of an inch height increase.

Rear shackles and/or AALs (add-a-leafs) will raise the rear end. Each one will raise the rear about 1.5-2". Often times, owners of ZR2 Blazers will have to use both methods to level their trucks because over time these models sag badly in the rear. Shackles don't affect ride, AALs make the ride stiffer and are harder to install.

Doing a SOA (spring over axle) in the rear will result in approx. 4.5-5" of lift. This is how 5"+ susp. lifts get the lift in the rear.

I'll add more later...

[S10XtremeSR]

Guranteed people will ask what these abreviations mean.

BS = Back Spacing
SOA = Spring Over Axel
SUA = Spring Under Axel
SAS = Solid Axel Swap
BL = Body Lift
PITA = Pain In The A$$

They will ask if a Brush Gaurd will fit on a truck with a body lift.
The answer is that they must build custom brackets to make it fit. A stock Brush Gaurd will not bolt up.

There's alot more but I can't think of anything right now.

[enigma2101]

i can help too but ive only done work on the first gen 4x4's.

[barryjames]

Adam728 has done some nice tuts on lifting 2wd's on some of the other forums i've been to
(hint)

[The Red Baron]

[QUOTE=trialsintrigger]
I also wanted to ask The Red Barron how did you get into Azuza unless it was a weekday. You are not supposed to be in there without 4x4. I am not going to tell anyone though.[/QUOTE]
[font=Verdana][font=Arial]As for getting into [/font][font=Arial]Azusa[/font][font=Arial] canyon, there is two ways to do it. The RIGHT way is to go down to the DMV and pay $26 every two years to have a duel “off road” registration and get a green sticker for your truck just like a dirt bike. If you do it make sure to tell them to classify it as a “ATV” like a quad. It took three managers and a call to [/font][font=Arial]Sacramento[/font][font=Arial] to figure that part out at my DMV. The WRONG way is to pay to park, then wait a while by the bathrooms at the far end of the parking lot. Then move the parking sticker from the top of the windshield to the bottom. That’s what they look for inside down below. Now quietly sneak down when the rangers are busy. If they catch you down there now and ask to see your green sticker your definitely getting a ticket but it would have to be the ranger that talks to you at the gate recognized you. I had my sticker on the top from the previous weekend and mud covering the new one on the lower part of the windshield so they stopped me, one ranger started writing the ticket when the other asked for my green sticker, I smiled and said sure here ya go! [/font][font=Arial] That’s when they told me about the parking sticker placement on the windshield.[/font][/font]

[font=Arial][font=Verdana] [/font][/font]

[trialsintrigger]

Or you could get a 4x4. LOL

[S10XtremeSR]

some poeple ask if the ZR2 has a different frame than regular 4x4 s-series. The answer is [B]NO[/B]. The frames are the same but the mounting points to where the suspension bolts to the frame are different.

[Fry98]

[QUOTE=S10XtremeSR]some poeple ask if the ZR2 has a different frame than regular 4x4 s-series. The answer is [B]NO[/B]. The frames are the same but the mounting points to where the suspension bolts to the frame are different.[/QUOTE]

The frames are different [url]http://www.higherpowered.net/zr2/docs/frame1.html[/url] Last time I checked, mounting points welded to the frame were a part of the frame...also, the t-bar crossmembers are different, that's why there's ZR2-specific susp. lifts.

[S10XtremeSR]

[QUOTE=Fry98]The frames are different [url]http://www.higherpowered.net/zr2/docs/frame1.html[/url] Last time I checked, mounting points welded to the frame were a part of the frame...also, the t-bar crossmembers are different, that's why there's ZR2-specific susp. lifts.[/QUOTE]

I have never thought of it like that. I looked at it like if you take a xtended cab short bed 4x4 and put it on a the same size ZR2 frame you could do so. The frames are the same. Everything would line up. But I guess if you look at the parts that are welded onto the frame itself then yes that would be a different frame.

[red4x4]

what kind of brackets do i need to build to put a brush guard on my 93 s-10 blazer 4 door with a 3 in. body lift. is there no way at all to lift the front bumper

[Dragginbody]

any more input??

[Dragginbody]

man do i need a moderator for the lifted suspension section. :rant:

[barryjames]

I'll write up a tut for lifting 2wd's S10 pick-ups and Blazers this week end.

[Dragginbody]

cool thanks. if there was a moderator in here that helped i think it would be more active.....

[barryjames]

I have it about 2/3 of the way done, it will be posted tonite.

[barryjames]

The 2wd lifting tut is done, do you want me to post it or do you want me send it to you via PM so you can look it over first.

[Dragginbody]

post it up...

[54inches]

Post it UP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[barryjames]

Sorry about the delay but i was waiting for the word.
I will post a new tread when i get home from Redding, Ca

[Dragginbody]

ok

[The Red Baron]

Thats funny, the "[b]Official Lifting Frequently Ask Questions FAQ'S Thread[/b]" was never made into a sticky and it was started by a moderator.

[barryjames]

Neither was my thread @
[url]http://www.s10forum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=179012[/url]