s10ls's new turbo/mpfi/bowtie head project

[s10ls]

i have been considering this for quite some time now, and i decided to go ahead and take the plunge. its official, i will have a fully setup 2114 with fuel rails for sale sometime after slamfest (october), along with my holley billet 1000cfm progressive 4 barrel throttle body (accepts standards GM sensors), a crane cam for BS motors that will work with stock heads, several sets of vortec heads, and possibly my syty manifolds. i may not sell the syty manifolds, cause i have some ideas to get them to work with these:



angle plug bowtie aluminum heads, 23 degree. i'm in talks to get an HSR cut down as well. i have a built spare motor to mock everything up on before i drop it in the truck

i'm thinking i may enjoy the truck as it is during the cold winter months and officially start the install next year, havent decided. i'll be collecting until then regardless

here is how she sits now

[sy-clone]

Good luck bro with your new "headache" jk, project. PEACE OUT>Tony

[cycle252]

could you give us an idea on the price that you are going to be selling the intake for. Also if I'm not mistaking the only thing wrong with those heads and the syty manifolds are that the plugs are to close and melt wires is that correct?

[s10ls]

not sure on price yet, prolly in the 500 range. most places would charge 450 or so to mod one and you have to supply the 2114

as for the heads, it depends on what castings you get. there are many different bowtie castings, some 23 degree, some 18. 18 degree heads generally have tiny combustion chambers, like 45-55 cc's, most (not all) have raised runner ports (taller than vortec's) and require a raised runner manifold with the old bolt style or material to be added to a stock manifold with the older bolt style. all of them wont work with stock exhaust manifolds for the reasons you mentioned or because the ports are way to big. some dont have accessory holes, none have center bolt valve covers, most require exotic valve trains, like offset rockers and/or offset lifters, or shaft mount rockers or need to be modified to accept standard sbc stuff etc.

brodix offers a 100% bolt on head, -8 or maybe even the -10 with a straight plug. but even with those i have heard its angle down to far and can cause interference issues. you could order a blank and drill the plug hole exactly where you want it if you wanted

[cycle252]

sounds like a lot of work but i guess there is power to be made in them. Plus they dont flat line at .5 lift do they, not to mention 30lbs compared to 85 is shaving some weight no the top. You happen to know the flow #'s on the heads.

[King_Ice_Flash2]

What throttle body are you running on 2114 intake?

Let me know what you think of those Brodix heads. I have been debating about getting them for about getting them for over a year now, but I didn't think I could justify them without putting more into the rest of the block.

I just didn't know how different the volume was, and was concerned about the compression ratio being to high to use with a turbo. How do you think they will flow compared to a ported Vortec (98+) head?

Those cast heads are insanely heavy. It will be worthwhile having aluminum heads just for changing the head gasket, since last time I pulled my bicep doing them on my 94 S10.

[King_Ice_Flash2]

Flow chart for 28" H20

http://www.brodix.com/heads/v6.html

I can't get the chart to paste good...

[98 SS]

Quote: Originally Posted by King_Ice_Flash2

Flow chart for 28" H20

http://www.brodix.com/heads/v6.html

I can't get the chart to paste good...

and how much are those gonna set a guys wallet back?

[meyers2211]

s10ls let met kno if u part ways with the 2114 i'm now more ready than ever to purchase it now that i have a good working system just need more fuel and boost

[cycle252]

IDK if that webpage is right, id want them to flow more. But if im not mistaking those can be ported more, as well as easier from what i hear.

[s10ls]

Quote: Originally Posted by cycle252

IDK if that webpage is right, id want them to flow more. But if im not mistaking those can be ported more, as well as easier from what i hear.

exactly, a ton more meat, a ton more flow potential. those heads are meant to be ported

meyers it may be a few months, possibley next year before i have it off the truck

and i run a holley billet 1000cfm 4 barrel TB with a carb flange and progressive linkage that bolts right to the 2114 with a 2 inch spacer

[King_Ice_Flash2]

Quote: Originally Posted by 98 SS

and how much are those gonna set a guys wallet back?

I think they were like 1200, but I would have to ask. Summit had them, but a local dirt track shop here can order them.

[King_Ice_Flash2]

I was trying to lookup whether it supported the idle speed controller for the 2003 S10, but I guess it may just be easier to ask. I think mine was a 4 pin round connector, but I've been driving the motorcycle while the transmission is being ripped apart.

[rat]

Quote: Originally Posted by King_Ice_Flash2

I was trying to lookup whether it supported the idle speed controller for the 2003 S10, but I guess it may just be easier to ask. I think mine was a 4 pin round connector, but I've been driving the motorcycle while the transmission is being ripped apart.

You could easily make an adapter that the stock TB would bolt to.

[s10ls]

the IAC my TB has uses a 4 pin round connector. like i said it uses standard GM IAC motor and TPS sensor.

[rentedmule]

I copied this off syty.net a while back - is this the info you guys are looking for?

Intake at .500 lift at 28" water

LB4 stock SY heads 165 cfm

1995down L35 heads stock 193cfm
1995down L35 heads minor porting 211cfm (at 24" water)

1996 up vortec head possibly 250cfm
1996 up ported vortec head 270cfm

brodix -8head stock 240cfm
brodix -8head ported 285cfm

brodix -10head stock 253cfm
brodix -10head ported 289cfm

[compmikey]

Are you sure you can't use your current intake manifold with the bowtie heads? The bolt holes on either manifold or heads can be drilled.
When I checked a vortec intake gasket against my 23 degree bowtie heads, the ports looked like a good match, but not the bolts. If yours heads have the larger 2.125 intake valve, they did it by moving the intake valve a little (similar to the brodix-10). You'll most likly require a jesel shaft rocker system. Not cheap, but very strong.
mv

[s10ls]

Quote: Originally Posted by compmikey

Are you sure you can't use your current intake manifold with the bowtie heads? The bolt holes on either manifold or heads can be drilled.
When I checked a vortec intake gasket against my 23 degree bowtie heads, the ports looked like a good match, but not the bolts. If yours heads have the larger 2.125 intake valve, they did it by moving the intake valve a little (similar to the brodix-10). You'll most likly require a jesel shaft rocker system. Not cheap, but very strong.
mv

thats probably cause your bowties were raised runner heads, these arent. they are setup for a 1.94 and 1.6 valves, which is what i will run in them. they are tapped for a 3/8 stud and dont require offset shaft mounts either, which is why i picked them up

i would like to here more about your old setup though, you still got any of that stuff? what was the casting number on those heads?

[compmikey]

Info on the V6 stuff seems harder to locate, but I think you're right. Does that mean your heads will accept a "Classic V6" intake? If so, IMO your heads will take much less investment to get up & running, due too the classic geometry. I think they are equivelent to the Brodix-6 heads in layout. If not, then it's the "Lil-Brodie" head that's the same. I have some "five-stamped" guidplates if you want them. They were wrong for my RR heads. The rocker stud holes in my heads were 1/8 inch too far apart. My wife & I are cleaning and tossing a ton of stuff before the weather gets cold here. I put my bowtie heads on ebay last week. The auction is about over. If your heads fit the "classic" V6 gasket, whay not run a Edelbrock 4 barrel manifold? mv

[s10ls]

Quote: Originally Posted by compmikey

Info on the V6 stuff seems harder to locate, but I think you're right. Does that mean your heads will accept a "Classic V6" intake? If so, IMO your heads will take much less investment to get up & running, due too the classic geometry. I think they are equivelent to the Brodix-6 heads in layout. If not, then it's the "Lil-Brodie" head that's the same. I have some "five-stamped" guidplates if you want them. They were wrong for my RR heads. The rocker stud holes in my heads were 1/8 inch too far apart. My wife & I are cleaning and tossing a ton of stuff before the weather gets cold here. I put my bowtie heads on ebay last week. The auction is about over. If your heads fit the "classic" V6 gasket, whay not run a Edelbrock 4 barrel manifold? mv

they bolt right to a 95 and earlier stock intake, where the bolts are 90 degrees to the plane on the heads, perpendicular. the fact that these particular heads would work with easy to find intakes and uses standard SBC valve train was a big reason why i bought them. i know aluminum heads can be expensive, but most of the time the exotic valve tyrain they require can be even more espensive. so your saying the lil brodies use the same casting as some of the bowtie stuff? i would be interested in those guide plates or anything else you find in the garage

the original plan was to trade in my 2114 for a 2111 or one of the holley manifolds that has provisions for MPFI, but a stealth ram has much more flow potential, and it looks a hell of alot cooler

[compmikey]

Shoot me your snail mail addy via private email. I'm shipping some stuff out this week, so I'll be at the PO anyway. I don't know if the lil-brodies are the exact same casting, but the "connecting points" and stud placements are the same. A couple people have told me that some early bowtie cast parts production was was jobbed out to Brodix, because of labor costs and porosity problems with initial AL GM castings. I don't know if there is any truth to that. I have a "bowtie" intake that would probably fit those heads, but it simply looks like an Edelbrock dual plane with a bowtie insignia. Aside from the bowtie, It looks absolutely identicle the 2111 in pictures I've seen. I was going to ebay it, but it was port-matched to a set of lil-brodies by the P.O. and trying to sell ground-on part at ebay auction is dicey. It belongs to my cousin. He wants $50 plus shipping, if I ever sell it. We can talk about it if you're interested. There are other intakes out there that have more bling fer sure. - mv

[s10ls]

you have been PM'd

i think the only issue, other than the headers will be finding a set of valve covers to fit. i have some ideas. i know the old 229 heads had perimeter bolt covers. i'm going to try getting a gasket first and see how it matches up to my heads then order the covers if it works

it would be alot easier and cheaper to make a spacer than to make or buy some custom valve covers. although having a set of bowtie covers to match the heads would be cool

[compmikey]

Quote: Originally Posted by rentedmule

I copied this off syty.net a while back - is this the info you guys are looking for?

Intake at .500 lift at 28" water

LB4 stock SY heads 165 cfm

1995down L35 heads stock 193cfm
1995down L35 heads minor porting 211cfm (at 24" water)

1996 up vortec head possibly 250cfm
1996 up ported vortec head 270cfm

brodix -8head stock 240cfm
brodix -8head ported 285cfm

brodix -10head stock 253cfm
brodix -10head ported 289cfm

A couple things are worth considering with this:
1) Don't read too much into someone's stated flow bench numbers unless the same bench and fixtures were used to aquire all of the the numbers you are comparing. If one use a slightly different stack (or none at all) in the port entrance, it can make a big difference in your reading. Porters, feel free to sound off here!
2) I've seen NHRA class racers pass up a set of expensive heads that looked only mediocre on a bench, and then regret it when a competitior bought them only to have them run really well. You don't race a flow bench. There is a lot happening in the ports and combustion chambers (with flow velocity, mixture tumble, harmonics, pulse waves, flame travel, etc) thousands of times each minute that a flow bench doesn't begin to detect. "Static flow" is only one of the indicators of a *possibly* good cylinder head. - mv

[compmikey]

Quote: Originally Posted by s10ls

you have been PM'd

i think the only issue, other than the headers will be finding a set of valve covers to fit. i have some ideas. i know the old 229 heads had perimeter bolt covers. i'm going to try getting a gasket first and see how it matches up to my heads then order the covers if it works

it would be alot easier and cheaper to make a spacer than to make or buy some custom valve covers. although having a set of bowtie covers to match the heads would be cool

Measure the distance between centers of your valve cover bolts length wise.

There were a couple different lengths. I have some tall Moroso chrome ones that might fit. I need to find a tape measure and check them.
MV

[s10ls]

Quote: Originally Posted by compmikey

Measure the distance between centers of your valve cover bolts length wise.

There were a couple different lengths. I have some tall Moroso chrome ones that might fit. I need to find a tape measure and check them.
MV

if they fit you'd be my hero lol

i dont have the heads with me now, i have a garage about 10 miles from my house, i'll measure next time i get a chance. i do have a picture that may help though

[compmikey]

Measure the distance between hole centers on the top edge.
Then do the same on the bottom edge. Measure to the 16th of an inch.
I need to find a tape measure, but I remember my valve covers' top & bottom rail measurements were different. You could not install a valve cover upside-down because the bolt spacing wouldn't allow it.
MIke

[compmikey]

BTW, it is too close to eye-it-up. There was something like 3/16 of an inch total difference between top & bottom bolt spacing IIRC.

[compmikey]

</pest on>
s10ls, did you measure thos VC bolt spacings yet?

[s10ls]

PM'ing you now

[phunk]

s10ls: why wont the SyTy exhaust manifolds bolt up to those heads?