Questions about a Rear mount turbo

[atvspeed4]

I have a 2003 S10 Zr2 4x4 automatic, I have been looking through these forums for a while now and have a better idea of what I want my project to turn out like. I will be doing all the work myself, minus tuning. My price range is about $1500. I would like to reach 200-300 rwhp. I was thinking of a T3/T4 turbo for quicker spooling, I can get one new for $200 shipped with internal wastegate and oil line kit. I plan on running water meth injecting to help reach a higher octane. This would be a rear mount set up. As far a tuning and fuel, I am a little confused after reading several articles, With the horse power range I am shooting for what would I need to do fuel wise? Would a reprogram be able to handle the fuel managment and the water meth injection? Also due to it being a rear mount set up I was thinking that I could get away without the use of a intercooler, what is your opinion of this? Any help is appreciated, also if I need to clarify any detail please ask, i am here to learn. thank you

[rat]

You will need an fmu, or and extra injector controller. Or you can upgrade the entire manifold to something custom, but that would be out of your price range as stated.

[The Sos]

I have been reading about this kind of setup also for a while and would love to give it a try. I like the STS universal kit but it is $$$.

[02_Black_XBlazer]

One of the ideas behind a rear-mount is that the length of the charge piping from the tc to the tb would serve as a sort-of linear intercooler, but i would think you could get a reasonably sized/priced ic and still fall within budget...

[King_Ice_Flash2]

I have a Garret T3/T4 turbo that I am not going to use if you are interested. The seals leak because the bearings/shaft are wore out, but it is not worn enough for the impeller to hit the housing, so it will be a pretty minor rebuild. I believe it was a .63 AR, but I would have to look when I get back from Colorado. About the only way you are going to meet the $1500 budget is with used parts and using a FMU instead of larger injectors. The HP numbers you are looking at shound low enough to probably get away with the stock pump too.

Anyways, I was looking for like $50+ shipping. You guys think that is a fair price?

Also, I have a ton of pictures of various turbo setups for the S10 4.3L. Let me know if you want them.

[atvspeed4]

Thank you for the reply I included a link for the kit I am looking at buying. I would like to not run a intercooler if possible because of the limited space I have up front due to a large transmission cooler and the fact that I cannot have any low hanging pieces on my front end due to it being used offroad. http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/T3-T4...3 70022428586

I was curious about the purpose of water meth injection now that I have read a few articles. When running this system, it sounds like as boost increases, the amount of water meth proportionally increases. Would this remove the need to do any additional fuel modifications? Also what is the best way to control this new setup, will a reflash handle this new setup? thanks for the help

[rat]

You won't have enough injector for what you want to do.

The main purpouse of a water/meth kit is to lower intake air temperatures. It will offset fuel needs to a point. I wouldn't rely on this though. It is mostly so you can run more timing due to lower intake air temps.

[atvspeed4]

Ok that helps point me in the right direction, so should I look to get a FMU from one of the supercharger kits or is there a better option?

[King_Ice_Flash2]

The FMU from a supercharger kit will work just fine, that's what this guy was running.

Something this size will fit with AC perfectly:
http://02vortec.tripod.com/sitebuild...g.w560h420.jpg
http://02vortec.tripod.com/index.html

You can see how 98 SS fit his transcooler with the intercooler, but no AC.
http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b2...r/IM001249.jpg
http://www.s10forum.com/forum/f11/2bar-3bar-317687/

[rentedmule]

The meth kits differ a bit - the cheaper ones will activate on a boost switch and start injecting at full volume when they reach a certain PSI. the progressive kits are much more expensive (another $200 on top) and probably aren't necessary for what you're doing. Check ebay for the meth kit and FMU, I got both new and for way cheaper than retail there. be patient and you should find some good deals.

[atvspeed4]

what is your opinion of mounting the oil return line on the fill cap?
The first option for the intercooler would work but not the second, where he has his underneath I would crush it easily offroad.

[chriszr2]

I have a full setup that I built for my ZR2. All stainless piping before the IC aluminum after the IC. All tig welded. Air box that breathes inside the bed. Grand national turbo. Scavenge pump. Intercooler. TB inlet bonnet. I kind of want to sell it. $1500 sounds good. Only thing I haven't done is plumb the oil supply and return. The turbo sits up high, just under the bed so it would be safe offroad. I have lots of pics if you are interested.

[chriszr2]

Here are all the pics.
http://s27.photobucket.com/albums/c179/javajoe79/S10/

[bridawg8]

im actualy looking to do the same thing with t3t4 hybrid with .63 AR.I am goin to start with 6psi witch should give me over 200 and plan on mounting it under the bed before the differential. im goin to use a Gen V Billet FMU with a stock but new fuel pump/sending unit. as far as the ic most people say running that low of psi it is not needed and with all that pipe goin to the thrtottle body like 97nas10ss said it will also help with cooling the air. another cool thing with rear mount turbos is people run seperate oil systems for the turbos using a sump pump,oil cooler, and a small oil tank. im thinking of doin this as well mounting the tank right over with the turbo is goin in my bed. just some thoughts ive gone through

[chriszr2]

I don't get the seperate oil system idea. Why add the extra parts and complexity?

[2000extemeturbo]

Quote: Originally Posted by chriszr2

I don't get the seperate oil system idea. Why add the extra parts and complexity?

I think all you would be adding is an oil cooler. (which I've heard that some people add anyway)

Think about it, let the oil gravity feed to a small tank, where your where your pump pushes it up through a cooler and back into the turbo.

it could be a lot more compact system as the feed and return line would be way shorter (less likely to get snagged if offroading).

I've never thought of doing it that way before, but it seems like it could work fine.

[Zygoat]

you HAVE to run a separate oil system if you have a rear mount, because the turbo is lower than the oil pan (maybe about level but never high enough above) to let the oil drain back by gravity, so it backs up into the turbo and leaks through the seals and f's everything up.

[2000extemeturbo]

Quote: Originally Posted by Zygoat

you HAVE to run a separate oil system if you have a rear mount, because the turbo is lower than the oil pan (maybe about level but never high enough above) to let the oil drain back by gravity, so it backs up into the turbo and leaks through the seals and f's everything up.

This is the way I understand the other method works.

let the oil gravity feed to a small tank, pump it back to the engine above the oil level in the pan. Then use a feed line utilizing the oil pump in the engine.

I (think) this is the method that STS and other comercial companies use.

[chriszr2]

Quote: Originally Posted by Zygoat

you HAVE to run a separate oil system if you have a rear mount, because the turbo is lower than the oil pan (maybe about level but never high enough above) to let the oil drain back by gravity, so it backs up into the turbo and leaks through the seals and f's everything up.

Maybe you just mean an extra pump to return the oil? They were talking about an extra tank, cooler and pump. Running in closed loop seperate from the engine.

[chriszr2]

Quote: Originally Posted by 2000extemeturbo

I think all you would be adding is an oil cooler. (which I've heard that some people add anyway)

Think about it, let the oil gravity feed to a small tank, where your where your pump pushes it up through a cooler and back into the turbo.

it could be a lot more compact system as the feed and return line would be way shorter (less likely to get snagged if offroading).

I've never thought of doing it that way before, but it seems like it could work fine.

How would a cooler and a tank be more compact then just a -6 hose and a -3 hose?

[Zygoat]

Quote: Originally Posted by chriszr2

Maybe you just mean an extra pump to return the oil? They were talking about an extra tank, cooler and pump. Running in closed loop seperate from the engine.

yea i was you usually need a little tank to let the turbo "gravity" drain in to and then you pump it back from there, total closed loop seems like more work to me, and not really necessary.

[2000extemeturbo]

Quote: Originally Posted by chriszr2

How would a cooler and a tank be more compact then just a -6 hose and a -3 hose?

the way I see an independant system working, none of the lines would be more than about 18 inches max, as opposed to about 5 feet.

Also, I've heard that a lot of people can't use just the two lines you mentioned. some people find that using a "catch can" or small tank is required, then they pump the oil back from there.

the guy who brought up this idea mentioned off roading. I know that around here off roading means that if a two inch sapling gets in your way you dont stop or go around.

Now, I have never built a remote mount turbo, but if I do I'll probably use the more conventional method -- pump the oil back to the engine.

[2000extemeturbo]

I just looked back at the post where the seperate oil tank is brought up. The guy says he will put the oil tank right ABOVE the turbo. That is just opposite of what my brain pictured, and that idea would use quite a bit of extra components.

[chriszr2]

All I am saying is... lay out five feet each of -6 and -3. Finding a place for them where they won't get snagged off road is pretty easy. I am going to run mine through the frame or along with the stock fuel lines, if I finish mine. Then take a cooler and a tank and find a place for them where they won't get thrashed in offroad action. The tank at least would need to be below the turbo.

[chriszr2]

Quote: Originally Posted by 2000extemeturbo

The guy says he will put the oil tank right ABOVE the turbo.

Yeah whats up with that? if its above the turbo you would need two pumps. Further complicating an already overly complicated system. Wrong and difficult to achieve.

[bridawg8]

not if the tank has a line comming off it from the bottom so the oil drains out threw that line down thew the trubo from gravity picked up by a pump which pumps it threw a cooler and back up another line threw the top of the oil tank

[greencactus3]

if you use a separate closed circuit, you wouldnt need to change out all that much oil that often right? just the turbo oil more often?

[chriszr2]

Quote: Originally Posted by bridawg8

not if the tank has a line comming off it from the bottom so the oil drains out threw that line down thew the trubo from gravity picked up by a pump which pumps it threw a cooler and back up another line threw the top of the oil tank

Gravity feed wouldn't be enough pressure. Maybe if you had a ball bearing turbo it would be ok. Maybe