parallel fuel rails with nitrous

[98 SS]

Im thinking out my new fuel line setup....

Im wanting to take the supply from the tank, into a y block, then to the backs of both fuel rails, then on the front of the rails, use 180* fittings to run the return lines back over the rails and to the side ports of the regulator and then out the bottom to the return. (A1000-6) regulator.

the problem is figuring nitrous supply. i'm thinking of tapping a 1/4" npt/4an line into the top of the y-block. The nitrous needs 40psi of flowing pressure, but if I remember, im running something like 57psi? I dont remember what is everyone setting their pressures at?

And I want to use equal length lines for the ones from the y block to the rails and the rails to the regulator.


thoughts?

[King_Ice_Flash2]

You may either need a second regulator for the nitrous or just jet the fuel smaller.

[shift220]

I wonder if you could set another regulator on the return line from the first regulator... might end up starving it though.

I set mine at 52 psi. You could compromise and set it around 45 or something. Stock is 58 psi I think.

[ArtosDracon]

Two questions before I can give you a better answer:

1) Are you doing a custom PCM tune?

2) Are you comfortable drilling your own jets for the fuel side?

[ArtosDracon]

i just went looking and coulnd't find much about your truck, care the expand on what you're running?

Here's what I'm thinking, if you're doing a custom PCM tune you could just crank down your fuel pressure and increase their duty cycle to compensate, OR, you could just decrease your fuel jetting on your wet shot to compensate, I'd be happy to calculate a starting point for you if you tell me what jetting you're using at 45psi, I have the full chart of jet size to decimal inches just for this exact purpose.

You may want to look at just going with a different FPR. I've used aeromotive's all purpose FPR with four 3/8" NPT inlets/outlets and a 3/8"NPT return line a couple of times for parralell rails and they work quite well. You could pretty easily just plug one, run your rails into two, then get a 3/8"NPT to -4an fitting and run your nitrous feed right off the FPR. They usually run a little less than the 1000 series too.

[Crew Cab Sonoma]

Quote: Originally Posted by 98 SS

And I want to use equal length lines for the ones from the y block to the rails and the rails to the regulator.


thoughts?

why equal length lines? wont cause any distribution issues
for them to to be of unequal lengths.

[98 SS]

I was thinking about doing it either way, jetting it down, or turning the pressure down and fixing it in the tune.

Ill be starting from scratch with the new tune anyways.

Artos: i've got a built 4.3 with a vortech y trim, was running 18-20psi on 6 rib pulleys, now with the 8 ribs im thinking i should be able to make 24psi. Im swapping in an 01 ecm so I can run a 3 bar OS from HP tuners. I've got a 2114 with 50lb injectors, meth, zex's 100-300 efi carb plate kit, and the NX boost based progressive controller.


I just figured equal length lines would be best...and look decent.

[IntheBatCave]

How did you manage the 8 Rib setup? I take it the a/c has been ditched?

[98 SS]

yep, no AC. I had ASP make an 8rib set for me.

[ArtosDracon]

Wow, you're running boost methanol and nitrous on an mpfi 2114. Talk about a 4.3 wet dream. What throttle body are you using LS2? You've got the four port fogger plate or the cross tube fogger(just curious)? Where are you injectiong the meth/water, intake just before the supercharger? That's a pretty damn slick set-up. What have you done to the bottom end to hold up to all this?

Based on everything else you've got going on, I would donwjet, you're going to be dumping enough fuel into this as it is with 24lbs of boost and water/methanol that increasing the injector cycle time might not work out well for you depending on the duration of your cam, I would keep the fuel pressure between 52 and 55 psi and downjet so you can keep the cycle time shorter and get better atomization and make sure you're not dumping fuel onto a closed intake valve.

[98 SS]

Im running an accufab ford throttle body, its a 12 point downward injection plate, the meth will be injected before the throttle body.

the center mains are splayed 4 bolt, eagle h-beams and 21.1cc dished pistons.

[ArtosDracon]

Nice, you might look into spraying the meth in the intake before the supercharger, it fully evaporates in the supercharger cooling the supercharger and the air as it's being compressed, which is a major source of inlet air heat, unless you're running a good intercooler, it'll be more effective there than just spraying into the intake.

I haven't seen one of the twelve point plates in person yet, what do you think of it?

[98 SS]

im running a 3" intercooler the size of a house!




the 12 point plate is neat, its two plates in one. The lower inner plate is for fuel, and the upper main housing plate is nitrous. The fuel points shoot out to the center, but the nitrous points fire down above the fuel points. Makes for good mixing by the looks.

[ArtosDracon]

That is definitely a good sized intercooler, have you ever considered spraying the intercooler with either the water/meth or the nitrous? Just for Shiggles. Maybe some custom engine mounts so you don't have to run that fugly intake elbow, lol. Looks good though man, can't wait to see how it turns out when you get it on 24lbs and the nitrous tuned out right.

[98 SS]

Im thinking about putting the purge on the intercooler so I can chill it before a run.





this takes care of that cobras head

[98 SS]

Where can I get the best deal on AN fittings and adapters?

[ArtosDracon]

ah, molto bene, I like.

Summit has pretty good prices on AN schtuff. I usually either bulk order to reduce shipping costs per item or suck it up and buy one or two locally for twice as much but avoid shipping costs and wait time.

[98 SS]

I figured up an order through summit last night, 155 bucks plus the shipping cost. Prices weren't too bad as long as you stay with the summit brand fittings. 12 fittings 2 of which summit doesnt make, so I had to get them from russel for 23 bucks each!, 6ft of 6an and 3 ft of 8 an

[King_Ice_Flash2]

I was very happy with the summit fittings. I think they are made by Russel.

[98 SS]

Summit credit cards are the devil.

[98 SS]

Here are some pictures of the intake ported out, the new fuel setup and the injector harness I made.

[ss383]

looks good. seems to be the only way to fly with the 4.3

I would run stock FP to keep injector flow and just use a smaller jet on fuel side for the nitrous.

[ArtosDracon]

Did you fab that TB intake elbow or buy it from somewhere? It's done gorgeously and I love the overpressure gates.

[98 SS]

I got it from RPM

[98 SS]

[sy-clone]

Lookin good!

[98 SS]

Thanks, I've always wanted to get it to look as clean as yours, but I dont think that is gonna happen

[ArtosDracon]

that looks great man! Keep up the good work!


It's not a great picture but your old lady looks pretty cute too, pics?

[98 SS]

haha, i wondered if anyone would say anything...

[sy-clone]

Quote: Originally Posted by 98 SS

Thanks, I've always wanted to get it to look as clean as yours, but I dont think that is gonna happen

Sure you can! It only takes a little elbow grease. PEACE>Tony

[ArtosDracon]

Nicely done sir, and 10 points for posting pics of your woman on teh interwebs!

[98 SS]

Some updates:



Replacing the fittings that were originally used when a shop originally plumbed my 2114.



one wire knock sensor vs 01+ 2 wire



My answer to mounting it


Had a fitting that had the threads of the old knock sensor, then tapped the middle to handle the bolt for the new knock sensor, then used a washer to make a base sandwiched between the two.



The plate that covers where the blower box went.



Better shot of the heat shield that seperates the coil and the header



Intake closer to being done. i have all the fittings now



Just did the fuel pressure regulator bracket today.



I need to make all my lines now, then make the bracket to hold the y-block. I need to swap the left fitting on the y-block with the one that is on the floor. I had to change my design when I dropped the distributor in and the fuel rails were at the same height as the sideways cap terminals.

[98 SS]

Little bit of an update. Decided to pull the heads off because I had a local guy who wanted to take a look at them and put em on a bench.

Timing chain had about an inch of play from full out to full in.

Here are some pictures of what I found on the cam.....and it looks like im gonna need cam bearings....AGAIN

Im gonna pull the motor out and take a look see at the bottom end to see how its holding up.

[ArtosDracon]

What lifters and springs are you using?

[98 SS]

Factory lifters....mistake right there i think, really narrow rollers. And pretty stiff springs.

[ArtosDracon]

I would definitely think about upgrading to the comp pro magnum rollers, used them a few times. I'm not sure the difference between them and the hi-tech liftes, but I've never used the hi-tech ones.

In the second picture of the cam itself, on the lobe pretty much dead center in the picture, it looks like the wear area either gets thinner or moves to the left, that lifter has to go before you fire the engine again, you may want to double check that the pushrod is still straight, and check the wear on the cam, you may want to think about polishing the cam before dropping in some brand new lifters.

[98 SS]

All of the abaove!! Lol. I didnt check much of the pushrods except for the ends, I think I'll replace them along with new lifters and a new cam. Gonna have something made instead of an off-the-shelf.

[Renegade_Z]

This is what I would have done to my truck if I had money. lol

[03zq8s10]

Quote: Originally Posted by Renegade_Z

This is what I would have done to my truck if I had money. lol

X2 Looking good 98 SS. I so envy you! I just did the 36lb injector swap with my Jammer setup and mine pulls much harder up top. I'm really inpressed here man. Looking at this setup makes me wanna go further with my 4.3.
I don't know what I'm gonna do next. Any suggestions?

[98 SS]

Your truck has a nice setup, the stall and cam go together well. It all depends on how fast you can afford. Dogsofjune sprayed on top of his powerdyne to make up for the lack of boost. Im not sure what a wynjammer can put out reliably.....but there was once upon a time when walbro 255's and an FMU would allow you to run 12-14psi.....granted the poppets went static open But with the new injectors maybe that wouldnt be a problem. The 2114 is always a step in the right direction, the potential to expand is great, and can be had fairly cheap now from RPM. You could always get a spare block and start playing with it a little at a time. Also, what do your IAT's look like with the jammer?

OOH....I one of my heads back today from being flowed....... but i gotta go eat dinner before the old lady gets pissed

[03zq8s10]

Quote: Originally Posted by 98 SS

Your truck has a nice setup, the stall and cam go together well. It all depends on how fast you can afford. Dogsofjune sprayed on top of his powerdyne to make up for the lack of boost. Im not sure what a wynjammer can put out reliably.....but there was once upon a time when walbro 255's and an FMU would allow you to run 12-14psi.....granted the poppets went static open But with the new injectors maybe that wouldnt be a problem. The 2114 is always a step in the right direction, the potential to expand is great, and can be had fairly cheap now from RPM. You could always get a spare block and start playing with it a little at a time. Also, what do your IAT's look like with the jammer?

OOH....I one of my heads back today from being flowed....... but i gotta go eat dinner before the old lady gets pissed

Thanks for the input man. I've thought about a Walbro 255. Where's the best place to get one from? I'm seeing 8 psi from my kit. It's supposed to be 6 psi but it ranges according to temp. I've as well thought about the 2114 but it looks like a lot of work though but looks worth it IMO. I absolutley love your truck. If anyone is looking for the ideal bad ass 4.3 it's your truck. I had the stall converter before the cam and it sucked driving it in town. After the cam the truck really started to come alive. I just went with the off the shelf instead of a custom grind. I may buy another 4.3. I know a guy who pulled his 4.3 out of his '96 SS and I may buy it. He wanted 300 last time I heard. Thanks again man. Keep us posted please. I love these 4.3 builds.

[98 SS]

Ok....Im back in case anyone was in suspense.

My valve seats were warped between the intake and exhaust....not suprising when you think of some of the intake temps I've seen or that when a 6 rib belt comes apart at WOT, by the time you realize what happened and get shut down, the motor is already cooking.

As they were from the first port work
.100 .200 .300 .400 .500 .600
Int 65 130 186 233 243 240
Exh 52 105 160 179 188 190

After a little tweaking
.100 .200 .300 .400 .500 .600
Int 71 144 201 235 241 248
Exh 58 125 160 178 188 193


I think I have decided to go with a solid roller cam, havent decided on what brand lifters, and Im gonna need some new springs for sure

At installed height my springs were 95lbs and at .5 lift they were 250lbs

[98 SS]

Quote: Originally Posted by 03zq8s10

I've as well thought about the 2114 but it looks like a lot of work though but looks worth it IMO. I had the stall converter before the cam and it sucked driving it in town. After the cam the truck really started to come alive. I know a guy who pulled his 4.3 out of his '96 SS and I may buy it. He wanted 300 last time I heard.

Thanks, I hope to have the truck back together someday to give some inspiration to others!!!

The 2114 is definately worth it. Especially now that the price is pretty reasonable compared to what it was 5 years ago. I ran my stall with a 260 cam originally and the truck was a turd!! if you ever think about a nice set of rockers, you have easy street with the 01+ heads. I had a set of pre 01's done and had to make my own rocker studs because I didnt like the idea of shimming up a set made for a 2.8. But im still running those studs to this day! And the 4.3 in my truck is out of a 96 SS. lol, used to be a memeber on here "superss27" I think. he swapped in a small block and I used his motor as my build motor. 300 bucks isn't bad.

[03zq8s10]

Quote: Originally Posted by 98 SS

Thanks, I hope to have the truck back together someday to give some inspiration to others!!!

The 2114 is definately worth it. Especially now that the price is pretty reasonable compared to what it was 5 years ago. I ran my stall with a 260 cam originally and the truck was a turd!! if you ever think about a nice set of rockers, you have easy street with the 01+ heads. I had a set of pre 01's done and had to make my own rocker studs because I didnt like the idea of shimming up a set made for a 2.8. But im still running those studs to this day! And the 4.3 in my truck is out of a 96 SS. lol, used to be a memeber on here "superss27" I think. he swapped in a small block and I used his motor as my build motor. 300 bucks isn't bad.

I'm thinking about ordering the 2114. It was 244 from Summit. Not too bad. What exactly do I have to modify to make this intake fit?

[12sws27]

Quote: Originally Posted by 98 SS

Also, what do your IAT's look like with the jammer?

The info below was taken out of a thread in another forum I made about a year ago. I didn't like my IAT's at the time and was sure I could get them down. I just copy and pasted it for the most part and edited a little so it would make since in this thread.

I check my IAT's awhile back before someone busted my window and stole my scanner and a bunch of other tools.

My IAT at the time, in 79* weather, cruising down the highway were 118* at best. Usually about 122-123* cruising and 129-135* at idle. That's with the outside temps being 77-79*.

I did some cutting on my Radiator support and used some thin aluminum flashing to route the air towards the filter and got the IAT's down a little.


After the mod when I tested it again it was 70-71* outside. At Idle the IAT's were 118* cruising at 25-40 in stop and go traffic they were around 100-112*. Cruising down the highway at around 70mph the IAT's got down to 95*.

That's the best answer I can give to what my IAT's are with the Jammer at 6psi. If the Radiator hose wasn't so close to the air filter I'm sure they would drop a few degress.

[98 SS]

Quote: Originally Posted by 03zq8s10

I'm thinking about ordering the 2114. It was 244 from Summit. Not too bad. What exactly do I have to modify to make this intake fit?

Well..that would be the possibly expensive route.. You would have to weld in fuel injector bungs and have fuel rails machined. probably approching 500 bucks unless you know people......or.....
http://www.sytyperformance.com/index...mart&Itemid=26

you could just drop the 750 on this instead and just need a set of injectors, some fittings from summit and the hardware store, a FPR if you dont already have one and a tune. Its one of those things you save for the initial 750, then piece togeather the rest as you go. and then once you have everything....ASSEMBLE!!

[98 SS]

Quote: Originally Posted by 12sws27

After the mod when I tested it again it was 70-71* outside. At Idle the IAT's were 118* cruising at 25-40 in stop and go traffic they were around 100-112*. Cruising down the highway at around 70mph the IAT's got down to 95*.

That's the best answer I can give to what my IAT's are with the Jammer at 6psi. If the Radiator hose wasn't so close to the air filter I'm sure they would drop a few degress.

i suppose you could use some meth to bring it down to the 80* range, but im not sure if there is enough heat there to warrant spending money on the meth setup. It adds a little extra fuel too by nature, but I think you would be better served with a small shot of nitrous....since you dont have any large heat problems normally, the n2o would give you cooler temps and some more kick in the pants. small shots 25-75 oughtta be alright as long as your fuel is fine. there are guys that run 150 on stock motors when fueled right, so I dont see why a 50 with 6-8psi wouldn't be perfectly fine. And where else can you pick up 50 ponies for 400 bucks

[12sws27]

Thx for the advice. More power for me is a ways off though. Next step for me is getting what I got now to the ground. Right now I'm saving for new tires and getting my Zexel and 3.73's installed. After that I'll see which way I wanna go for more fuel.

My thinking is the 2114 is best but most expensive. Marine intake is very affordable but heavy and the 36lb spider is great but what if I want more power then 36lb will supply and I'm sure the plastic plenum has got to give at some point if I end up going with some means of large amounts of boost. Like if I sold the Jammer and went turbo one day or something.

[disturbing V6]

Quote: Originally Posted by 98 SS

Ok....Im back in case anyone was in suspense.

My valve seats were warped between the intake and exhaust....not suprising when you think of some of the intake temps I've seen or that when a 6 rib belt comes apart at WOT, by the time you realize what happened and get shut down, the motor is already cooking.

As they were from the first port work
.100 .200 .300 .400 .500 .600
Int 65 130 186 233 243 240
Exh 52 105 160 179 188 190

After a little tweaking
.100 .200 .300 .400 .500 .600
Int 71 144 201 235 241 248
Exh 58 125 160 178 188 193


I think I have decided to go with a solid roller cam, havent decided on what brand lifters, and Im gonna need some new springs for sure

At installed height my springs were 95lbs and at .5 lift they were 250lbs

Some nice number for a production set of heads. If you go solid remember to not order push rods until after you have the heads on and cam installed. You will have to measure for push rod length. Personally I would recomend a good set of 120 wall chromemoly push rods. I like it when they don't bend.

[98 SS]

haha, getting it to the ground is the hardest part for all of us!! Cal-tracs are handy in that dept. Otherwise, a extra set of tires with some stickies on it are what ya need along with that zexel and gears. I think i paid 300 for my slicks last year. Not bad if you throw them on a set of junkyard steelies.....instead of driving on them everyday oops..... Sad part is now i dont like to drive the truck with anything but slicks on it!

If you ever plan on going with more boost someday, look into the 8.8 if you don't already have your zexel and 3.73's you can put one in for cheap and then beef it up from there as you go along. I like the true-trac....no clutches to deal with as well over the zexel.

One piece of advice, look at your longterm possibilities....not goals......goals change but if you start with a good base you dont have to do anything over. the rearend in these are okay to a point. But you could put the same money somewhere else and be at that point....and have room to grow.

I have always told myself, when I blow this motor up.....im adding two cylinders. Everything I have will bolt onto a vortec 350 (383!), all I would need is an efi intake with a 4 bolt standard carb flange.

03zq8, do you run an aftermarket pan or an auxillary trans cooler? always good insurance with the stall. If you run a standalone cooler instead of running it through the radiator, you will notice a nice drop in trans temps.