Built 4.3 turbo underway Pics will talk

[meyers2211]

Rat

Is there a formula i multiply the tables by? cfm vs voltage and say multiply by .73 to increase airflow vs voltage

[rat]

Quote: Originally Posted by meyers2211

Rat

Is there a formula i multiply the tables by? cfm vs voltage and say multiply by .73 to increase airflow vs voltage

What were you trying to do again? It all depends on what the fuel trims look like. If you are going to a bigger maf i would get the maf table out of the car/truck the maf came out of. The gm mafs go off frequency not voltage like the fords. And multiplying by .73 would make you leaner.

[shift220]

Like onecrazynoma said, I hope you are relocating your main harness far away from the turbo. I put mine between the turbo and engine and thought there was enough clearance but it still managed to melt the wire loom and crack a few wires. Now its really far away.

[meyers2211]

[quote=shift220;4425605]Like onecrazynoma said, I hope you are relocating your main harness far away from the turbo. I put mine between the turbo and engine and thought there was enough clearance but it still managed to melt the wire loom and crack a few wires. Now its really far away.[/quot

right now i have aluminum tape over all the wires close to the turbo, to my suprise the wires can lay on the downpipe and not get burned. But yes i've burned and melted my fair share over wire loom

[project2001]

i dont think i saw it, but what exhaust housing are ya running? the .68?...when are ya starting to see boost?

[meyers2211]

:-) great nite, truck has finally narrowed down the problems and i took it out to race my brothers 03 mach 1 stang with bolt ons and DR high 12 car. I stuck with him and at the end of 120 he had me by a car and half. Trucks AFR are between 10- 11.9 AFR at 9psi. I got my walbro 255 inline put in so it could take the pressure, i'm guessing on a heatsoaked engine badly tuned richhh atleast 280whp. Its going to the dyno as soon as i get a bigger radiator, once on the dyno i can really get tuning 100mph comes so fast its tough to record and my datalogging program cuts out


To answer project 2001 i have the .68 exhaust housing, see boost as early as 2300rpm and always get full boost at 3000rpm, but my turbo is too big for my goals of 450whp, then again i receive boost at only 2-300rpm later which in a street race is nothing

[dropped '01 S10]

Hey man i was wondering if you have any cooling problems with your intercooler being right in front of your radiator? But other than that man truck looks good man i picked up myself a garrett 60trim t3/t04 an cant wait to feel boost later man

[Zygoat]

hay meyers how about an up date. what were some of the bugs you had to work out? you having any problems now? hows everything working? let us know.

[meyers2211]

Big problems on sat, the truck was leaking oil really bad and lifters started making noise and i was 2.5 quarts low on oil...oh fckkkk. I filled her bak up primed the engine for 30 seconds started her bak up, by the time i got home the lifters quieted down drastically upon startup. I dropped the transmission today thinking it was a rear main seal and it turns out to be oil pan gasket is leaking bad. So the engine is coming out tmr to put a new oil pan gasket in. and while its out i can inspect the lifters.

In regards to cooling, the radiator is severly undersized and the 16" fan doesn't help much. I can't get tempsbelow 180. The exhaust piping under the hood raise temps a lot along with a motor producing more heat, and underdrive pullies. I hope to swap in a corvette radiator, the manual tranmission radiators are really really thin at 3/4"

zygoat, umm everything has been getting debugged, The most recent is the problem of timing with tuning. At high speed i can feel the truck bucking like misfiring. I've read that because my timing is stock and not advanced enough the fuel is still burning on the way out. The other problem i've been having is the bonnet blowing off so i made my own strap. Took two hose clamps bolted one end to the throttle cable bracket and the other to bolt on the bonnet and tightened it down. I've also made a L bracket to clamp the bonnet on from the front.

[Zygoat]

yea you got to retard that timing quite a bit. does it only happen under load (wot) or at all high speeds? so you have no tuning soft ware at all? have you been tuning with only the fmu? if so have you been able to avoid detonation? and how hard was it?

[s10ls]

Quote: Originally Posted by Zygoat

yea you got to retard that timing quite a bit. does it only happen under load (wot) or at all high speeds? so you have no tuning soft ware at all? have you been tuning with only the fmu? if so have you been able to avoid detonation? and how hard was it?

he said his fuel is burning on the way out, retarding the timing would only make this worse. he needs to advance it if this is the case

how much boost are you running meyers? i doubt its knocking yet. my spark map peaks at 34 degrees and is about 24 at 15 psi and no knock, and its a very safe spark map IMO i could squeeze alot more out of it

[meyers2211]

s10ls is right, i'm quite far from detonation. I have tunercat and been tuning i have not yet begun to adjust the timing charts. Stock timing,9lbs of boost, IAT at 120 degrees,93 octane and between 10-11.7 AFR. I need more timing for sure.

Stock timing at 2800 is 22 degrees advanced. I have not tuned because i don't feel comfortable enough to start messing with anything other than fuel. Jus don't have any tuning experience with ign timing.

I'm sticking with my 1 bar Map sensor and its working jus fine but i don't know how to advance the spark accordingly. Other than the guidelines peak advance toward peak torque

And after a long discussion on the motor apparently i found out why i blew an oil pan gasket. I boosted the crankcase thru the pcv, which in turn put 9psi worth of pressure on the oil pan gasket and it blew out. I though i was careful about this putting a breather on the pass side, capping it off i jus wasn't thinking about the driver side pcv valve. oh well motor is jus a few bolts away

[Zygoat]

you are both absolutely correct. i guess i must not have been thinking. advance the timing. and post something about me being stupid. i feel the same way about messing with the timing, or any tuning, but just keep up the resurch and go slow i imagine 1 or 2 degrees at a time shouldn't get you hurt. ( i am sure it will take alot of timing at first) but it is still better to do it in little steps. just take it easy and go slow, im sure you'll get her dialed in.

could you describe the problem with the oil pan seal a little better. i get the idea but am interested in exactly how it happened and what you have to do to avoid it. maybe some pics??? thanks.

[blacksharpie]

The issue with the pan gasket is that a PCV normally sees vacuum on a NA engine. Once boost is introduced to the intake and the PCV is still connected it also boosts the heads witch have passages to the pan, this puts 9 PSI of pressure on the oil pan (entire engine actually, valve cover gaskets etc) and it blew the gasket out. Any vacuum line in a NA engine suddenly becomes an outlet for all that boost pressure, to avoid this set up a catch can either without any vacuum or if you have a down pipe pull vacuum from right before the turbo.

Its not hard to forget this kind of stuff and its a bummer it blew your pan gasket out.

[Zygoat]

so how exactly do you hook up the catch can. i know i saw pics of 02 vortechs but i dont really know how to connect it. i think 98 ss was talking to him about it(he has one as well)

[98 SS]

Yep, blew out the rear intake seal before i worked the kinks outta my pcv system. You need to have the pcv inlet in your intake pipes, not the charge pipe. its better than open air because it acctually creates vaccum in your crankcase, helping with ring seal. it keeps the fumes outta the cabin and doesnt give your truck that burnt fuel/oil smell while your sitting still. Put a catch can in the mix to condense the oil and fuel vapors down so they dont coat your intake pipes and your air compressor of choice....causing your silicone couplings to pop off.


viola, the only thing you have to do is drain the catch can everynow and then, and be amazed at whats in it.

[Zygoat]

do you know where that tread is at that showed how you made it.


ps. sorry to jack your thread meyers.

[meyers2211]

np zygoat we all do it to eachother, The motor is jus a few bolts from coming out and i spotted another problem, my motor mount on the pass looks like a gumdrop, all that heat melted it so that will need replacement and a heatshield. and i'll be happy to post up my ve tables for anyone that wants a baseline for a 266 comp cam, ported heads

[cycle252]

wheres the 266 like to idle at im about 4 weeks from my 270 drop in and im starting to tune a bin file early for it, and i figure the 266 is real close to a 270, care to enlighten me, oh and the ve tables would also be nice.

[meyers2211]

i have to get the cam card but the tables should be close enough to mimic, I have the 1 bar sensor and for fueling i use the FMU, but i have the VE tables from when i had NA 11.8 across the board :-) then i hooked up the fmu and sure enough not bad, averaged 11.5 AFR under boost.

cycle are u running a 2bar or 1 bar Map?
I'm running the tunercat programs, and i can't figure out how to adjust the idle I can adjust the limits but no results. With the comp cam at idle it shakes the truck at 750rpm, but around 850 900rpm shes very comfy. Your going to love the big lopey idle :-) i've gotten a lot of compliments

[rat]

Quote: Originally Posted by cycle252

wheres the 266 like to idle at im about 4 weeks from my 270 drop in and im starting to tune a bin file early for it, and i figure the 266 is real close to a 270, care to enlighten me, oh and the ve tables would also be nice.

If you pm me your email i can send you some tables from a 270ahr tune I did. I don't think the ilde was raised from stock on that tune. I didn't have wideband data, but the ve tables should be closer. Didn't touch the maf tables or anything. For an n/a map 11.8 would be way rich.

I run my 260 at 600rpm idle personaly. Even with poly mounts it isn't that bad IMO.


Meyers, there should be a desired idle table in the idle tab of the tables menu if my memory is correct. It should be a 4 part table. Ac on/off, and p/n and in gear all vs. temperature, so you can adjust it for cold startup, or at temperature. If you still can't find it i can fire up my old computer with tuner cat on it and take a look.

[Solowma]

It is the first table under the Idle control tables.
My idle is at 600 and isn't that bad either. When it tries to correct itself then it gets a little bumpy.

[MINTSICK]

On the idle I had the 270 for a while at stock idle for a 5 speed truck, the idle sounded great and it ran perfectly fine however the off idle response with the 5 speed kinda sucked so I ended up raising it to 750rpm in the table Rat described above, off idle response was so much better after that.

[Solowma]

I have noticed that with mine. Maybe I will try it up at 750 to see what a difference it is. Good advice. Thanx

[meyers2211]

Thanks for the support guys, i found the table, i assumed the idle control would be under constants. I tuned it first for NA then put boost on it, in theory i'd hopefully like to tune it for 12.7 then 11.8 when i come into boost. Hot air expands faster therefore help spooling the turbo.

Do you guys have any timing charts you would like to share?

[rat]

Mine is for my n/a motor, but if you still wanted it i have no problem giving it to you. Mine isn't anything special though.

When mine hunted for idle(caused by the fuel trims) i found i needed more fuel at idle, even though my fuel trims wanted to take fuel out. So, i live with -5 to -10% fuel trims at idle.

I thought for spooling a turbo you want to run very rich, causing the burn to continue into the exhaust, and spool the turbo. Same idea as a two step rev limiter dropping spark letting unburned fuel go through to the exhaust to spool the turbo.

[meyers2211]

update, after a blown oil pan gasket i guess i made it my mock up stage and now everything is going in for final. I'm waiting on my gmpartsdirect.com order and then everything starts going bak in.

Reworked most of the electrical near the turbo considering i seriously underestimated how much heat, melting everything.

Spent the time to degrease everything and paint(everything was soaked in oil from the pan gasket) and painted silver and it looks great.

New moroso motor mounts, made a quik disconnect for the battery wires

MELTED


Replacement

[King_Ice_Flash2]

I hope you like your engine mounts well done

Is there a reason you aren't using heat shields on the manifolds around spark plug wires?

If you need some, I have some sitting in my garage off of my 94.

[meyers2211]

u have a pic of the shield? I had spark plug jackets over em but i don't think they are sufficient. as with the MM's i jus seriously underestimated the heat they would endure.

[Zygoat]

looks good man! you have a pic of those battery disconnects?

[King_Ice_Flash2]

Here you go!

If you want them, let me know, and I will get them in the mail... N/C

Otherwise, they are in the box going to the scrap yard thursday, with 4 open diffs, spindles, springs, exhaust manifolds, tractors, engines, and all kinds of other junk that I won't get anything for

[disphit]

i JUST READ THROUGH THE WHOLE THREAD... $HIT I WANTED MORE!!!!!! looks great man

[meyers2211]

update pics and vids here are some shots of the recent work, oil pan gasket is fixed all systems running and going, and bak to tuning. dyno day is this sat oct 6th so i'm definately getting numbers but i want to get my AFR pinned and my timing is still stock. so now that i made the correct recipe i have to go after power now. I'm having overheating problems and i tihnk the underdrive pullies are fking me. I want to upgrade to automatic s1- 4.3l radiator because they are so much thicker. While it may not do anything i think its worth a shot. either upgrade to a real perf radiator, or upgrade the pump. The solid motor mounts gave me real hell. The tranny tunnel was so tite i couldn't get the transmission in because the motor had no play in it. I normally hoist the front of the motor up and that way its much easier to get the tranny in. I opted to lift the cab up a 1 1/2" put the tranny in and lower it back down. here are some random shots and two vids

[meyers2211]

Here are the vids please i don't encourage street racing so no complaints, we do it on a relatively remote road wit no traffic in sight.

Me untuned 2nd night out 11.5AFR stock timing Stock tires Full weight spare tire jack had it all.

vs

my brothers
2003 Mach 1 stang Xover, cat bak, intake, 4.10's built rear skinnies and Dr's car is mid high 12's.

From a 30 roll i get the leave and we shut down at about 120mph (end of 1/4)

TURN IT UP and enjoy :-)

http://http://*******.com/watch?v=cNu98B35egY

They are you tube so fill em in




cruising home did a quick run. 2nd gear revved to 3500rpm andlet clutch out, 3rd gear blew out my IAT sensor and lost boost

http://*******.com/watch?v=dLogOuM-7oc

[meyers2211]

Quote: Originally Posted by disphit

i JUST READ THROUGH THE WHOLE THREAD... $HIT I WANTED MORE!!!!!! looks great man

thanks for the post helps when ur cursing and kicking it to keep ya head up

[Zygoat]

looking good man! i love the last pic!

[MGSDime97]

the links for the vids dont work

[rat]

Quote: Originally Posted by MGSDime97

the links for the vids dont work

Yes they do, read the post. Replace ***** with y o u t u b e

[meyers2211]

I'm sry guys i wasnt paying attention

I fked up the link one too many http's

Here are the links again for the race vs the mach1

RACe down 231 or http://y o u t u b e.com/watch?v=cNu98B35egY CLick here, Turn it up and enjoy

In car vid

http://y o u t u b e.com/watch?v=dLogOuM-7oc



fk it jus to my myspace i posted the vid up there
http://profile.myspace.com/index.cfm...ndid=291 0381

[ss383]

When you tune that.... aim the a/f for 11-11.5/1 range. Any richer is a waste... It is a good safe range to keep it in. Can push a little leaner, but i wouldn't push ya luck.

Im only running 24* total advance in my Lt1 with 6 lbs. I could probably go 28* with that little boost but again, keeping it in the safety margin and leaves turning up boost easy since i have no real need to take more timing out that that.

[meyers2211]

WEll right now total stock advance i believe was 22 i retuned and bumped timing 2 degrees but i want to keep a good safety margin. I've officially ditched the FMU and bought a SDS extra injector controller. I start the her back up today to see if my oil leak problems continue. THe intake manifold was not sealing wit Black RTV so Permatex recommended the Rigid gray and i lightly sanded the aluminum and steel. While i had the intake manifold off i did some cleanup work, smoothing out all the rough casting into the ports. There was a lot of aluminum sticking up. I allowed the permatex to dry for 4 days before i start and in the meanwhile i've installed the SDS system, and installed a bigger radiator. Pulled one from a automatic 4.3l which was much thicker than the manual. here are some shots



relocating IAT
[IMG]http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b250/meyers2211/intercooler013.jpg
[/IMG]


Injectors plumbed and EGR block off plate






cleaned up manifold

[MGSDime97]

where did you get the egr plate or did you make it?

[cycle252]

looks like he made it

[americasfuture2k]

for blocking off that egr, how are you going to bypass the check engine light? i blocked my egr off at the header with a penny. it worked, buy i had a check engine light on the few months it was in till i took it out. now my truck will not go in the higher rpms because i think i have an exhaust leak somewhere. my CEL was for egr getting insufficient flow.

[raider600]

ya updates?

[meyers2211]

funny today was the first day the truck saw boost in over a month, i've been driving the truck twice a week to school. Its getting professionally tuned after new years i finally have the money to do it. I will try to get some new pics up of the new intake bonnet. I spent all day today fixing the power steering pump. I haven't had power steering in the truck for over a month and finally got it bak, pulley was a pita. The only thing left for the truck is the tune and to fix a 02 sensor so i can get bak in closed loop

[5timedime]

i've enjoyed tagging along with the build. it's a cool truck and it sounds great. you'll really enjoy it once it's been dyno-tuned. meanwhile, enjoy the holidays.

[rat]

Quote: Originally Posted by americasfuture2k

for blocking off that egr, how are you going to bypass the check engine light? i blocked my egr off at the header with a penny. it worked, buy i had a check engine light on the few months it was in till i took it out. now my truck will not go in the higher rpms because i think i have an exhaust leak somewhere. my CEL was for egr getting insufficient flow.

Turn off the code.

[Zygoat]

good to hear. i hope things go well for you. happy holidays and keep us posted on what your up to.

[meyers2211]

hahaha yea ur guys threads keep me entertained now, i will probably tune side by side with the tuner atleast to help him get setup, along wit bringing one of my buddies who does all our filming. So u guys will get plenty of views on it.

My local race shop referred me to him, gave him a call tried hard to find his place. Blank building in a industrial park with jus a steel door. I walk in and smile, I see a Twin turbo GTS viper, tube frame right hand drive Evo, and drag eclipse and was like this is my guy. heres the site and the Evo is in projects
http://www.enzo-racing.com/


and to answer the question about egr, i shut all the codes off with tunercat. The dreaded P1406 pintle location and all others pertaining to EGR, as well as MAF codes