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Old 01-16-2005, 04:39 PM   #51
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Re: Throttle Body Mod?

so then it's not worth the time to do this mod? i don't wanna waste my time if it's a shit mod...
Old 01-16-2005, 04:43 PM   #52
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Re: Throttle Body Mod?

I already have installed the high flow tbb but what is the egr mode you guys are talking about
Old 01-16-2005, 07:08 PM   #53
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Re: Throttle Body Mod?

I think the throttle plate and the egr mod should be done together. I can definitely tell that my truck drives much smoother and at much lower rpms than it did before the mods.
Old 01-16-2005, 10:13 PM   #54
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Re: Throttle Body Mod?

does it make a difference if they are done together or can i do the throttle mod without the egr mod and be fine with that?
Old 01-18-2005, 05:23 AM   #55
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Re: Throttle Body Mod?

Quote: Originally Posted by 964pt3
You dont know what you speak of and thats very clear.
You ever think of why its really there?? No
Do you know the 5.7 has a similar defuser in place, just smaller!
the 5.7 has a smaller diffuser... no kidding. thanks for sharing that well known fact.
Quote:
Why would GM make such a large throttle body that costs more to manufacture than a smaller one with no plate?
Why would GM not push the throttle plate open the other way and save costs on the more expensive bracket and longer cable?
Why does this plate mount where it is? Why would the plate be smaller on the V-8 versus the V-6?
COMMONALITY... thats why. the same basic casting can be used on multiple engine lines. do you really think it would be cheaper to build a TB with a smaller bore for the 4.3, than to just stamp in a bigger diffuser into an otherwise identical 5.7L TB assembly??? right....
Quote:
Why would the people at Delphi explain to me its reasons only so you could tell me your better ones to why its there?

Then we have the butt dyno people that make ABSOLUTELY NO SENSE.
It improves part throttle. Care to explain that in detail as to how?
Since the plate itself has and arc and doesnt expose itself into the bore area where it then can restrict the flow of air until around 50% opening, how does it increase the throttle response?
look here, if you cant look down your own damn throttle body, twist the linkage a little, and see how removing the diffuser can increase airflow just off-idle, then you just arent smart enough to comprehend any explanation of it....

and apparently you havent tried the mod, so you dont have actual experience with it, right?

Quote:
If is does nothing as you state, why bother with it?
i took a chance that it MIGHT help performance a little, although i had no expectations of any improvement, it didnt cost me any money, and very little time, so i tried it.

last spring, one Fri. at the track, TB unmodded: 10.517 average ET out of 6 passes with no traction problems.

following day w/ diffuser cut off, no other changes: 10.509 average ET out of 5 passes w/o traction issues...

the density altitude calculated out to be about 15 ft. lower this day, than the day before, so weather conditions were almost identical. mph and 60ft. aveaged out practically the same both days at 65.6 mph/ 2.30 60ft.

also, on the street, racing my friends 97 Dodge Ram, which at the time was usually a dead even race from a roll practially every time... both before, and after the TB mod.


Quote:
Dry manifold has nothing to do with air movement. Under this statement you make, air will go to whatever cylinder is needed.
Why is it that these intakes dont flow so well over 4000 rpms?? Something to do with the ability to direct the air where needed and enough of it??
Also under this rule I guess TPI intakes are a waste sine air will flow where needed you dont need runners, cause thats what it tells me. All aftermarket attempts for intake arrangments are a complete waste under this rule of air will go where needed. Runners therefore do nothing and we should now just make huge plenums to contain more air!!
what a bunch of nonsense.... you comepletely missed my point. WHICH IS... that dry flow intakes tend to be relatively insensitive to TB placement and location. that that relatively equal ammounts of air will reach each individual runner from the plenum, with little regard to where the air entered the plenum at... NOT that tuned runner lenghts were not important. got it?

and who says these intakes fall off above 4000? the runner lenght and size would indicate that they would do pretty well above 4000 the plenum could stand to be a bit taller, perhaps.

so what makes you think that? wait. dont tell me... "Chuck`n the boys at Delphi" gave you a box full of flowbench, EGT, and dyno results on these manifolds.... right?

understand this: if this manifold really were such an airflow distribution clusterf*ck as you seem to think it is, then this manifold would have never seen production.....

do you really belive that little diffuser would somehow magically cure a bad manifold design???

with emmisions standards as strict as they are, and have been for the last 10+ years, a manifold that had such terrible air distribution as to cause some cylinders to run lean, and others rich, would have been re-designed well before it made it to production..... believe it...


Quote:
I'll just go back and tell Chris and his buddies at Delphi they have no idea what there doing and scrap all there air flow studies since you guys know better and step down so you may take over intake- injection developement at Delphi!
better yet, why dont you tell me his last name, and a work phone # or email address he can be reached at... AT DELPHI.... could you do that? thanks...

Last edited by Crew Cab Sonoma; 01-18-2005 at 05:52 AM.
Old 01-18-2005, 05:49 AM   #56
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Re: Throttle Body Mod?

Quote: Originally Posted by rat
I will have to agree with 964pt3 on this.

I have 6 spark plugs here on my desk that seem to indicate this. The ones from the rear cylinders show normal signs of wear. The ones from the front on the otherhand show a lot of deposits. Maybe because the back is lean and the front is rich? I can post pictures if anyone doesn't beleve me.

Also i have noticed that if i go full throttle off the line it bogs. If the restrictor was there, the throttle body would be smaller at full throttle and at the low RPM with the smaller throttle opening, promoting a faster air velocity through the throttle body, thus maybe better full throttle response from an idle. I cant get the tires to slip if i just go full throttle, but if i go maybe 75% then go to full throttle after the RPM's come up then the tires will give a little squeel. I think it would be interesting to see some Vacum numbers to see if there is vacum in the plentum with and without the diffuser plate at full throttle. The previous owner of my truck removed the blade for me, so i don't know how it drove before it.
i`ve pulled my plugs a couple of times too, and i havent seen any real cylinder to cylinder differences in mine.

perhaps you have other problems, such as fuel delivery variations, or some oil getting past some of your valve guides?
Old 01-18-2005, 06:40 PM   #57
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Re: Throttle Body Mod?

Yes, I tried the mod and I can say with 100% absoute fact, I was the first one ever to post the dam thing!

I had and off idle surge to the motor and a surge at around 3800 rpms I could not explain. I went to a friend of mine who is a design engineer at Delphi Automotives R&D lab in Rochester NY. You know what Delphi is??? Comeon know it all, tell me, its old Rochester Products is what it is! He let me go in with him on a Saturday and put it on the diagnostic machine and it showed some odd things he could not explain at first. Upon further inspection he had noticed I had removed this defuser and gave me the complete detail as to why it was there, PERIOD, if you dont like it since you seem to know air flows better than anyone else, so be it! Trucks dont get the good parts and never did, they designed this to a low rpm torquey intake within the base premise of the design team in Michagan. It was to be as cheaply made as possible but do the things they asked it to do. This designed incompassed and injector pack placed into the rear of the intake sizing down the rear plenum and splitting it into 2. They knew air flow problems would arise from this design but felt confindent they could resolve the issue hence the opening direction and the plate added with a front mounted air controller! If you look at a TPI intake you'll notice and air foil, it also restricts flow, but splits the charge into 2 half per each runner bank.

Now since you know it all again, why was the 5.7 throttle body made to large??? Because it needed the plate put into place to correct there flows too since they use the same intake. If this was not a problem they would have made the 5.7 the correct size without this plate and added a smaller plate to the 5.7 for the 4.3!!!!

Both of the surges was due to the EGR opening off idle and shutting down at 3800 rpm. I was told again which you'll disagree with that the removal of this plate trapped most all the EGR gas forward in the intake and caused this surge due to the cylinders cleaning out and running good air and fuel. He told me straight out if I wanted to run with this plate out which does restrict the air flow, but wont make a difference since its allready to large a bore to begin with, without it and didnt want the surging to limit the EGR gas entering. I told him a unplugged the unit and it coded for no egr, well he said I said LIMIT IT, GET IT! It adds way more EGR than you'll ever need since as little as 1% egr against the air fuel mix at normal driving levels is enough to bring the combustion cylinder temps to reduce the NOx to safe Federally approved level and we sized it large for yada, yada, yada and then the EGR mod which you all do was born!!! YES I was the one to bring the old idea of no egr to the S boards but under a modifaction of limiting it rather than deleting it since it does provide no SES light, no removal by expensive tuning, passes emissions tests and can reduce ping which completely removing it under our timing maps it will ping!!

But I guess you'll say thats all crap too!!!
Old 01-18-2005, 07:49 PM   #58
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Re: Throttle Body Mod?

But my uncle's friend's neighbor Billy Bob took the restricter plate off his 79 Trans Am and it hauled azz.

j/k

Good post, I like when there is an explaination to a 'mod' that people can't agree if it works or not. You get what you pay for, hence the name free mods... limited if any actual results.

If you want something done, do it right and do it once. Nit-picking at minor stuff here and there won't get ya very far.

Nick
Old 01-19-2005, 03:25 PM   #59
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Re: Throttle Body Mod?

Quote: Originally Posted by 964pt3
Yes, I tried the mod and I can say ...

... But I guess you'll say thats all crap too!!!
Dude ... freakin rephrase some of that. Were you drunk when you typed it?
Old 01-20-2005, 04:33 AM   #60
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Re: Throttle Body Mod?

Quote: Originally Posted by 964pt3
Yes, I tried the mod and I can say with 100% absoute fact, I was the first one ever to post the dam thing!
good for you.... and you still didnt notice any increase in off idle sensitivity? i bought my truck last Feb., and this was the first thing i did to it. before i even started looking for S10 websites.
Quote:
I had and off idle surge to the motor and a surge at around 3800 rpms I could not explain. I went to a friend of mine who is a design engineer at Delphi Automotives R&D lab in Rochester NY. You know what Delphi is??? Comeon know it all, tell me, its old Rochester Products is what it is! He let me go in with him on a Saturday and put it on the diagnostic machine and it showed some odd things he could not explain at first. Upon further inspection he had noticed I had removed this defuser and gave me the complete detail as to why it was there, PERIOD, if you dont like it since you seem to know air flows better than anyone else, so be it!
yes... i know that RP became Delphi.

i dont know if all you claim really happened or not. im still skeptical of some of these claims, regardless of who made them. did this guy actually have a role in the development of this diffuser? whats his name again???

perhaps your truck did have problems with the diffuser mod, but i can say with certainty that my truck had no issues with it, even before i disabled the EGR... and mine still has no problems with 87 oct. fuel after the EGR was totally disabled...

and yes, iam aware that the knock sensor will attempt to back off the timing if knock is detected, but there is always that telltale couple of "pings" before the PCM can correct for it. and it doesnt appear that most other people here have issues with these either...

Quote:
Trucks dont get the good parts and never did, they designed this to a low rpm torquey intake within the base premise of the design team in Michagan. It was to be as cheaply made as possible but do the things they asked it to do. This designed incompassed and injector pack placed into the rear of the intake sizing down the rear plenum and splitting it into 2. They knew air flow problems would arise from this design but felt confindent they could resolve the issue hence the opening direction and the plate added with a front mounted air controller!
lets suppose for a moment that this intake is as flawed as you claim it to be, and the designers knew it, as you also claim... they should have all been FIRED over it.... PERIOD. theres just no excuse for shoddy engineering... they could have overcome any such flaws, without any production cost increases...

but i dont think this intake is near as bad as you make it out to be. sure, the plenum could be a little taller. and the the TB could have a better entry radius to the rear of the plenum, but i have an idea that may improve on this for very little cost. i`ll be trying out this idea in the coming months, and let you know if it offers any significant improvements.


Quote:
If you look at a TPI intake you'll notice and air foil, it also restricts flow, but splits the charge into 2 half per each runner bank.
are you refering to the TUNED PORT INJECTION manifolds from the F/Y body`85-92 305/350`s? yeah, i have only ported and modified a few dozen of these... both prodution and aftermarket pieces for them. icluding a unique "siamesing" technique that i developed, that isnt externally visible. and still have 4 or 5 TPI`s laying around my garage...

are you talking about the EGR deflectors in the base of the plenum opening, or something on the TB itself?

Quote:
Now since you know it all again, why was the 5.7 throttle body made to large??? Because it needed the plate put into place to correct there flows too since they use the same intake. If this was not a problem they would have made the 5.7 the correct size without this plate and added a smaller plate to the 5.7 for the 4.3!!!!
because they were also developed to be used on more powerful engines than the 5.7L Vortecs as well... thats right. such as the LS1, and its derivatives. including the truck 4.8, 5.3, and 6.0L engines. and i havent taken a good look yet, but possibly the 8100 engines as well.

ever notice the similarities? striking, isnt it??? no, the castings arent identical, but its clear they share many of the the same basic diementions, with only subtle differences.

its easy to see that simply adding a diffuser to the smaller and weaker engines to soften off idle "lurch" is cheaper than changing bore size.



Quote:
Both of the surges was due to the EGR opening off idle and shutting down at 3800 rpm. I was told again which you'll disagree with that the removal of this plate trapped most all the EGR gas forward in the intake and caused this surge due to the cylinders cleaning out and running good air and fuel. He told me straight out if I wanted to run with this plate out which does restrict the air flow, but wont make a difference since its allready to large a bore to begin with, without it and didnt want the surging to limit the EGR gas entering. I told him a unplugged the unit and it coded for no egr, well he said I said LIMIT IT, GET IT! It adds way more EGR than you'll ever need since as little as 1% egr against the air fuel mix at normal driving levels is enough to bring the combustion cylinder temps to reduce the NOx to safe Federally approved level and we sized it large for yada, yada, yada and then the EGR mod which you all do was born!!! YES I was the one to bring the old idea of no egr to the S boards but under a modifaction of limiting it rather than deleting it since it does provide no SES light, no removal by expensive tuning, passes emissions tests and can reduce ping which completely removing it under our timing maps it will ping!!

But I guess you'll say thats all crap too!!!
no, i dont think thats all crap (most of it perhaps ), but if 1% exhaust content was all thats needed to meet standards. i guarantee you, they damn sure wont give it much more EGR than required to do the job.

and when they can meet the NOX standard without EGR, they will delete that damn thing in a heartbeat.... like they did with the `02-03 4.3`s.... they probably got away with hundreds of thousands to over a million engines produced without the cost of an EGR valve, and its related components. and no warranty claims on them either.

Last edited by Crew Cab Sonoma; 01-20-2005 at 07:27 AM.
Old 01-20-2005, 05:37 AM   #61
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Re: Throttle Body Mod?

Funny how the guys from Delphi could know so much about the TBI and the manifold design, since here is all the parts they claim the fame to, from a typical 4.3, sort of makes you wonder if they only designed the fuel management part of it and not the mechanical layout. Maybe Mr 964pt3 will get his buddies at Delphi to run so flow tests of a modified and unmodified set of throttle bodies and we can see if the flow more air at WOT. Next thing he'll be telling us is about the air scoop effect that the restrictor has on rthe throttle plate. If you would line up the direction of air flow coming from the bonnet the goes to the MAF sensor, so that at WOT it would point to the defector, the defector should increase the speed of the air and create a mini vortec (sort like that piece of crap toranado claims to) This should add more horsepower and get better gas milage. It might even get you hotter chicks. Just remember I was the first one to post this free mod. LOL By the way 964pt3 this mod was around in 96 when I bought my 96 new and the truck is still running around with it, with no problems.

Air Charge/Temperature Sensor TS10072
Alternator RM1266 100 Amp
Compressor - H6 CS0120
Condenser CF1055
Coolant Temperature Sensor TS10075
Crankshaft Sensor SS10125
Delphi 12 Volt Automotive Battery BU-75-525 75/525
Delphi 12 Volt Automotive Battery BU-75-630 75/525
Fuel Injector FJ10039
Fuel Pressure Regulator FP10075
Heater Core HC0336
Knock Sensor AS10001 2 Required
Mass Air Flow Sensor AF10045
MFI Fuel System V6 FJ10565 Fuel System
Modular Fuel Pump FG0070
Oxygen Sensor ES10011 3 Required
Radiator RA1130 - W/EOC
Radiator RA1131 W/TOC
Throttle Position Sensor SS10382
Old 01-20-2005, 07:01 PM   #62
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Re: Throttle Body Mod?

Quote: Originally Posted by poconojoe
Funny how the guys from Delphi could know so much about the TBI and the manifold design, since here is all the parts they claim the fame to, from a typical 4.3, sort of makes you wonder if they only designed the fuel management part of it and not the mechanical layout. Maybe Mr 964pt3 will get his buddies at Delphi to run so flow tests of a modified and unmodified set of throttle bodies and we can see if the flow more air at WOT. Next thing he'll be telling us is about the air scoop effect that the restrictor has on rthe throttle plate. If you would line up the direction of air flow coming from the bonnet the goes to the MAF sensor, so that at WOT it would point to the defector, the defector should increase the speed of the air and create a mini vortec (sort like that piece of crap toranado claims to) This should add more horsepower and get better gas milage. It might even get you hotter chicks. Just remember I was the first one to post this free mod. LOL By the way 964pt3 this mod was around in 96 when I bought my 96 new and the truck is still running around with it, with no problems.

Air Charge/Temperature Sensor TS10072
Alternator RM1266 100 Amp
Compressor - H6 CS0120
Condenser CF1055
Coolant Temperature Sensor TS10075
Crankshaft Sensor SS10125
Delphi 12 Volt Automotive Battery BU-75-525 75/525
Delphi 12 Volt Automotive Battery BU-75-630 75/525
Fuel Injector FJ10039
Fuel Pressure Regulator FP10075
Heater Core HC0336
Knock Sensor AS10001 2 Required
Mass Air Flow Sensor AF10045
MFI Fuel System V6 FJ10565 Fuel System
Modular Fuel Pump FG0070
Oxygen Sensor ES10011 3 Required
Radiator RA1130 - W/EOC
Radiator RA1131 W/TOC
Throttle Position Sensor SS10382

Oh , God you guys are good. Not one of you know how air flows under vacuum or any other circumstance, but you seem to think you do.. Without bench flowing you have no idea in what it is your doing and how it makes the air react. You can deaden one aspect of the air flow to maybe correct another IF your lucky. Also without a dyno you cannot prove that its doing anything at best other than destroying the air flow, unbalancing it, creating more turbulence than needed.. Does anyone ever notice how the reports of MAF problems, misfires and a whole bunch of injector problems are on these boards??? If I polled the same amount of people that havent done stupid things to there 4.3's in the general public and compare it to that same number found on the forums using the same years configurations etc, you would see the percentage having these issues would be 4 fold if not higher for the board members and wonder why?? Then you have the Fbody people, the LS-1 boards etc without a doubt being a brighter and mostly older bunch telling people to shun away from this crap because they learned all to well that these things dont work, but us 4.3 people still think they can better those who have more money for more gadgets, years more experience and dont rely on there ass to tell them something works!

Then we got, this is all they list for parts when you have no idea the operation GM even begins to run and of Delphi of any other of its parting sources and how they all work together. Delphi , once Rochester Products doesnt manufacture really that much itself anymore due to the UNIONS of the United States that demand more than the people whom work for them are worth. A/C Delco itself is within the same boat also. These 2 companies which are not now 100% owned by GM, still package other parts from other large vendors into there boxes marked per each name just to make the common person happy. Valeo a French firm makes the majority of all A/C Delco parts, Delphi still runs it casting plants here for intake bases, throttle bodies and some more, but most of this stuff ends up in Boschs hand to final assemble etc. Delphi runs a R&D lab here and works with Bosch and other European companies to produce ALL the intake systems and sub systems GM uses, but isnt limited to just GM. Outside of Michagan we here in western NY make dam near the whole entire drivetrains used and most of the other components used in GM vehicles , so unless you here and or know the plants and its people, dont even try to guess who does what and why!! GM flat out wont own 100% of any subcontrating business it did own prior to the 90's, nor does it 100% operate any of these plants. They got out of them for a reason, and the reason was Unions and the mighty dollar enicircled around the quality issues these plants and the union peolle could not meet! They just couldnt afford to produce the quality of the Japanese manufacturers and pay these high prices for failure!

As far as the designers ought to be shot! Well they did tell GM there disliking of alot stuff and still do, but as long as profits are #1, which they are, they will continue cheapening whenever they can, its just a fact of business!! Do you know that people whom never ever have touched a vehicle ever if their life and just have a piece of paper, that says they were taught ,dictate to Delphi, A/C delco etc the base disigns and predetermended final costs of these projects and cant be over run or changed whole heartedily?? GM is going dow the toilet slowy, why?The place is being overrun by people who think they know better, kinda like here!!!!
Old 01-20-2005, 08:15 PM   #63
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Re: Throttle Body Mod?

oh.
Old 01-20-2005, 09:45 PM   #64
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Re: Throttle Body Mod?

Quote: Originally Posted by 964pt3
Oh , God you guys are good. Not one of you know how air flows under vacuum or any other circumstance, but you seem to think you do.. Without bench flowing you have no idea in what it is your doing and how it makes the air react. You can deaden one aspect of the air flow to maybe correct another IF your lucky. Also without a dyno you cannot prove that its doing anything at best other than destroying the air flow, unbalancing it, creating more turbulence than needed.. Does anyone ever notice how the reports of MAF problems, misfires and a whole bunch of injector problems are on these boards??? If I polled the same amount of people that havent done stupid things to there 4.3's in the general public and compare it to that same number found on the forums using the same years configurations etc, you would see the percentage having these issues would be 4 fold if not higher for the board members and wonder why?? Then you have the Fbody people, the LS-1 boards etc without a doubt being a brighter and mostly older bunch telling people to shun away from this crap because they learned all to well that these things dont work, but us 4.3 people still think they can better those who have more money for more gadgets, years more experience and dont rely on there ass to tell them something works!

Then we got, this is all they list for parts when you have no idea the operation GM even begins to run and of Delphi of any other of its parting sources and how they all work together. Delphi , once Rochester Products doesnt manufacture really that much itself anymore due to the UNIONS of the United States that demand more than the people whom work for them are worth. A/C Delco itself is within the same boat also. These 2 companies which are not now 100% owned by GM, still package other parts from other large vendors into there boxes marked per each name just to make the common person happy. Valeo a French firm makes the majority of all A/C Delco parts, Delphi still runs it casting plants here for intake bases, throttle bodies and some more, but most of this stuff ends up in Boschs hand to final assemble etc. Delphi runs a R&D lab here and works with Bosch and other European companies to produce ALL the intake systems and sub systems GM uses, but isnt limited to just GM. Outside of Michagan we here in western NY make dam near the whole entire drivetrains used and most of the other components used in GM vehicles , so unless you here and or know the plants and its people, dont even try to guess who does what and why!! GM flat out wont own 100% of any subcontrating business it did own prior to the 90's, nor does it 100% operate any of these plants. They got out of them for a reason, and the reason was Unions and the mighty dollar enicircled around the quality issues these plants and the union peolle could not meet! They just couldnt afford to produce the quality of the Japanese manufacturers and pay these high prices for failure!

As far as the designers ought to be shot! Well they did tell GM there disliking of alot stuff and still do, but as long as profits are #1, which they are, they will continue cheapening whenever they can, its just a fact of business!! Do you know that people whom never ever have touched a vehicle ever if their life and just have a piece of paper, that says they were taught ,dictate to Delphi, A/C delco etc the base disigns and predetermended final costs of these projects and cant be over run or changed whole heartedily?? GM is going dow the toilet slowy, why?The place is being overrun by people who think they know better, kinda like here!!!!
Well I'm done even responding to you, since you just showed us how stupid you are, air doesn't flow in a vacuum, since a vacuum is an environment, lacking air molecules. Yes I do understand, air flow and have access to both a flow bench and a dyno. I also am not one of the younger guys on here that would believe your bull. I have also worked with several engineers from Delphi, on their load sensing ignition systems, also with some of the other auto manufactures on some of their products. I also am very familiar with Dephi's part sourcing and am eligible to buy my vehicles though GM's preferred supplier plan. I am also familiar with the issues relating to the chemistry changes to the plastic used in the manifold top and it wasn't designed in NY, so why would the bottom half be designed there? I think since you know some people that work there, you're just blowing wind. If you have a real in there, tell us the patent numbers (there is more than one) that covers the intake / throttle body design, using the throttle plate restrictor and then we'll see how many NY names appear on it. Oh and while your at it, show us some air flow charts of the manifold (other than the ones used in the patent applications).
Old 01-20-2005, 09:49 PM   #65
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Re: Throttle Body Mod?

Hey dont worry bout it bro, my charger blew that restrictor plate right off, good thing it stayed stuck in the trottle body, so it was easy to take out....

Last edited by xtreme5369; 01-21-2005 at 02:47 AM.
Old 04-04-2005, 01:44 PM   #66
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Re: Throttle Body Mod?

Quote: Originally Posted by NCarolinaS10
You know the place where the stupid thing connects to the throttle body? Mine WILL NOT stay put. It sits at an angle all most all the time no matter how much I tighten it down and I have to end up re aligning it and tightening it back up at least once a week if not more! Its almost not worth it anymore. I'm about ready to sell the whole thing!

Mine wasn't staying put for a while so I just slapped the bitch a good one while i was trying to get it to stay on and it like 'popped' in and it hasn't moved since.
Old 04-04-2005, 07:10 PM   #67
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Re: Throttle Body Mod?

Quote: Originally Posted by xtreme5369
Hey dont worry bout it bro, my charger blew that restrictor plate right off, good thing it stayed stuck in the trottle body, so it was easy to take out....
Are u JK-ing about the charger blowing the restrictor plate off?
Old 08-12-2005, 01:39 AM   #68
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New Post -TBI unit 220

I can't seem to find where to make a new post.. Will someone in charge of these forums put this in a new post?

What my problem is.. First off I'm working on a 87 Chevy S-10 Blazer 6cyl 2.8L 4x4. I replaced the 220 trottle body unit, and the injectors.. The drivers side injector now is just trickling out, now full spray..

I also had changed the spark plugs, new plug wires, and new air filter..

Its running high, then dying out.. I want to also make sure I put the right hoses to the right connection on the tb unit..
Old 08-12-2005, 08:46 AM   #69
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Re: Throttle Body Mod?

<.............91 gmc sonoma, just flipped the airfilter lid over. but on hot days, I put it back stock. In Cali, we have strict smog laws. And with my truck having 245,000 miles on it, (still running strong) I don't wanna put anymore stress on the motor than it needs.

Countrygal, I don't know about where you live, but in my city I went to my local library and got a library card. They assigned me an account number for which I can access the library's online database from home. And they have a huge selection of online automotive manuals.
Old 04-18-2007, 02:50 PM   #70
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Re: Throttle Body Mod?

so this is old but does it work or not...lol theres a bunch of stuff i dont understand
Old 04-19-2007, 09:26 AM   #71
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Re: Throttle Body Mod?

define "work"...
for the TB mod,
if you want more off-idle/part-throttle responsiveness, then yes, it "works".
if you are looking for more WOT power, then it doesnt "work"...

all i can tell you is to try it for yourself, and see...

Last edited by Crew Cab Sonoma; 04-19-2007 at 09:29 AM.
Old 04-22-2007, 03:29 PM   #72
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Re: Throttle Body Mod?

I did this mod last weekend. I could tell on low rpms to mid but nothing at WOT. Its worth doing because it doesn't take long and costs nothing.
Old 05-05-2007, 04:05 PM   #73
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Re: Throttle Body Mod?

I did mine a couple months ago, plugged the holes with rivets. It idles low as always, but when I first started it up it stalled a couple of times. Not sure if it needed to adapt itself or not, but that was at idle. After that, it was all good, better throttle response is all that you will see, its fun for baning the gears and such but thats about it. I have an 02 4.3, ive been cycling through thread after thread to find out if I have EGR and everyone is an expert apparently, its hard to get correct info.
Old 05-05-2007, 04:07 PM   #74
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Re: Throttle Body Mod?

Quote: Originally Posted by 2k2indigoxtreme
I did mine a couple months ago, plugged the holes with rivets. It idles low as always, but when I first started it up it stalled a couple of times. Not sure if it needed to adapt itself or not, but that was at idle. After that, it was all good, better throttle response is all that you will see, its fun for baning the gears and such but thats about it. I have an 02 4.3, ive been cycling through thread after thread to find out if I have EGR and everyone is an expert apparently, its hard to get correct info.
You don't have egr.
Old 05-05-2007, 04:09 PM   #75
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Re: Throttle Body Mod?

Thank god lol, therefore with the TBB mod, thats pretty much all that I can do for free
Old 05-06-2007, 02:01 PM   #76
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Re: Throttle Body Mod?

For the record, mine's been running fine for a couple years now. Like I said earlier in the thread, I pulled the entire thing off through the rivets and then welded the newly exposed holes up with a TIG.

Have yet to experience any problems.
Old 05-06-2007, 11:03 PM   #77
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Re: Throttle Body Mod?

where do I get the stuff for the EGR mod? Whats involved?
Old 05-08-2007, 12:46 AM   #78
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Arrow Re: Throttle Body Mod?

Quote: Originally Posted by poconojoe
Well I'm done even responding to you, since you just showed us how stupid you are, air doesn't flow in a vacuum, since a vacuum is an environment, lacking air molecules. Yes I do understand, air flow and have access to both a flow bench and a dyno. I also am not one of the younger guys on here that would believe your bull. I have also worked with several engineers from Delphi, on their load sensing ignition systems, also with some of the other auto manufactures on some of their products. I also am very familiar with Dephi's part sourcing and am eligible to buy my vehicles though GM's preferred supplier plan. I am also familiar with the issues relating to the chemistry changes to the plastic used in the manifold top and it wasn't designed in NY, so why would the bottom half be designed there? I think since you know some people that work there, you're just blowing wind. If you have a real in there, tell us the patent numbers (there is more than one) that covers the intake / throttle body design, using the throttle plate restrictor and then we'll see how many NY names appear on it. Oh and while your at it, show us some air flow charts of the manifold (other than the ones used in the patent applications).
964pt didnt say air flowed in a vacuum he said it flowed under vacuum. air flow has nothing to do with cylinders being "leaned out" if a cylinder is running lean that means it doesnt have enough fuel not air.

Last edited by moel16; 05-08-2007 at 12:48 AM. Reason: because
Old 05-08-2007, 08:29 AM   #79
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Re: Throttle Body Mod?

Quote: Originally Posted by moel16
964pt didnt say air flowed in a vacuum he said it flowed under vacuum. air flow has nothing to do with cylinders being "leaned out" if a cylinder is running lean that means it doesnt have enough fuel not air.
son, you do realize that was posted over 2 years ago, right?
and yes, it was 964pt3`s position that some cylinders recieved more AIR than others, with the DAMPER removed from the TB blade...

no matter mole, if Joe comes across this, i`m sure he`ll educate you thoroughly...
Old 05-10-2007, 12:37 AM   #80
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Re: Throttle Body Mod?

Quote: Originally Posted by 98SS
For the record, mine's been running fine for a couple years now. Like I said earlier in the thread, I pulled the entire thing off through the rivets and then welded the newly exposed holes up with a TIG.

Have yet to experience any problems.

i just put rivets in mine..!! works like a charm!!!

Last edited by chrisso2169; 05-10-2007 at 12:39 AM.
Old 05-10-2007, 05:44 PM   #81
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Re: Throttle Body Mod?

I appreciate the part throttle (since this is how my vehicle is driven 99.9&#37; of the time anyways) response this mod gave. Who cares about the technical aspects you guys were arguing over!

The way I see it, any engine will only suck in as much air as it displaces. The only things that will change that behavior is (a) less restriction, or (b) positive pressure. PERIOD.

And I don't believe the point you made about diverting to the rear cylinders. My other car is a 4 cylinder that has equal runners, but the T/B is off to the side of the manifold! What's up with that design? Do you seriously think the back cylinders run with less air? I doubt it.
Old 05-10-2007, 06:34 PM   #82
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Re: Throttle Body Mod?

I wish this thread would die, its been around forever.

but the guy above me sparked a question in my mind. what would offset throttle body designs like he mentioned, or the restrictor plate on or off do for distribution for nitrous?

just something to ponder
Old 09-09-2008, 11:50 PM   #83
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Re: Throttle Body Mod?

Quote: Originally Posted by verbalkint99
where do I get the stuff for the EGR mod? Whats involved?
yeah im curious as well
Old 09-10-2008, 12:21 PM   #84
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Re: Throttle Body Mod?

also curious...
Old 09-11-2008, 03:23 AM   #85
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Re: Throttle Body Mod?

You do it yourself, no "stuff" needed except for tools and a grinder/dremel or something of the sort. Read the thread, I think NCarolinaS10 basically stated how to do the mod.
Old 09-11-2008, 09:10 PM   #86
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Re: Throttle Body Mod?

there is a how to.
i did it....they said it wasn't good enough.

http://www.s10forum.com/forum/f107/h...emoval-348823/

Tad
Old 09-11-2008, 10:03 PM   #87
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Re: Throttle Body Mod?

I purchased a blue printed throttle body for my truck this summer from Janzer Performance. It has a different return spring, 75mm, polished and has the restricter removed. I almost did it my self but I wanted some spairs for my S10 parts collection.

At the time I had done nothing to my truck as far as bolt ons. The only thing I really noticed was it didnt require as much pedal imput to go down the road. After I put the open element air cleaner on it and removed the MAF sensor I noticed a more seat of the pance gain in performace.

Before I did anything I had alot of lag from 4300 RPM to 5500, the engine would just lay down bettween those RPM. That is no longer the case. My truck is a Zq8 so it has good tires and the hop shocks, it would never break the tires loose before. Tt does it very easly now even with the heavy duty bumper on it. So for me the mod worked out great.

But with any bolt on sometimes you dont notice the benefits untill you make some other changes as well which work in unicen.
Old 07-20-2010, 07:27 PM   #88
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Re: Throttle Body Mod?

Quote: Originally Posted by Crew Cab Sonoma
the reason i called it a DAMPER is because thats exactly what it is. at 72mm, these TB`s are HUGE for a 4.3L, it dampens throttle response, to prevent an overly "touchy" feeling gas pedal, which would likely cause complaints with many owners, and could also be a potential issue in poor traction conditions.

lets try to clear up a few myths here....
here are the facts...

YES, this mod will give you a snappier off idle throttle response.

NO, it will not give a significant, if any power increase at WOT. my truck gained NOTHING from this mod... dont let the off idle response fool you into thinking it helps at WOT as well...

NO, it does not keep any cylinders from "leaning out"...
this is a dry flow manifold... air will go to whatever cylinder its needed at, regardless of wether this piece is there, or not....

NO, removing, or restricting the EGR will NOT help WOT power..... if its not malfunctioning, the EGR is ALWAYS FULLY CLOSED at full throttle...

you MIGHT notice some improvement at part throtle, but i doubt it. i didnt.

some cars will gain some fuel economy by disabling EGR flow, but i didnt notice a significant gain, but i certainly didnt lose any mpg from removing the EGR....
i know this is really old but if i buy the blade off the internet cause i dont know anything with welds would i not have to do the egr thing then or i do i was getting confused reading this?
Old 01-17-2011, 08:07 PM   #89
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Re: Throttle Body Mod?

I barely got around to doing this mod but before i read this forum my initial conclusion was that my truck was accelerating much easier and didnt feel so heavy in the low RPMs. Everytime I'd leave a stop light i'd have to go a lil far down on the accelerator to keep the pace. I already had an EGR restrictor plate. Its not completely blocked of but it limits the gasses. I think it was a good mod.
Old 01-17-2011, 08:13 PM   #90
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Re: Throttle Body Mod?

Wow....... Revived yet again from the original 2004 post date. Its ok though your new. (read the dates)
Old 01-17-2011, 08:35 PM   #91
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Re: Throttle Body Mod?

Quote: Originally Posted by Spike89
Wow....... Revived yet again from the original 2004 post date. Its ok though your new. (read the dates)
If he would have made a new thread he would've got flamed for not searching. And the first thing he said was "i know this is really old..."
Old 01-17-2011, 10:26 PM   #92
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Re: Throttle Body Mod?

Yeah the guy in 7/20/2010 said that but the other guy posted his 1/17/2011. Not trying to be rude at all, and I know the circumstances, but maybe you might try reading dates as well. Again not trying to be rude. We have all made the mistake on reading the dates. It happens, and there is no need to try to compinsate for an error with a counter error. No hard feelings.
Old 02-26-2011, 05:57 PM   #93
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Re: Throttle Body Mod?

I did the throttle body mod and tig welded the holes closed. Very happy with the results. 1 mpg increase in fuel mileage and better throttle response.
Old 11-03-2011, 07:15 PM   #94
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Re: Throttle Body Mod?

Quote: Originally Posted by nystateofmind27
I think the throttle plate and the egr mod should be done together. I can definitely tell that my truck drives much smoother and at much lower rpms than it did before the mods.
so i have a 4300 vortec in my 1500 silverado i have already taken off the baffle resonator on the intake. will it mess with anything of i take off or grind down the restrictor on the throttle body blade ?
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