my new "Wait4me performance" PCM...

[Merritt]

Quote: Originally Posted by Yogi

Lots of good info in this thread. Many thanks to the guys like CrewCabSonoma And Family Man who posted their results and gave the good feedback!

Thanks to all for the info, it helped me make the decision to order mine.

[FraserFishin']

These trucks run 250 ft/lbs torque stock.
If I did the PCM tune from wait4meperformance, plus my cold air intake + flowmaster side exhaust (before the back tire). How many HP's + ft/lbs torque before the new PCM compared to after.

Any approximations? Just trying to determine whether its work the $150 yet

[mattwatermo]

Last fall i went to jesse for a reflash and when i got it back it was great. The only problem is it was too great and i screwed something up in the gooseneck in the back of the tranny. I'm still very happy with it and was a much better investment than my hypertech power programmer.

[BlkBlzr01]

im planning on getting a pre-tuned pcm from these guys for my 96 Blazer 4x4. i have some planned mods for it, but do not currently have them done. do you thank i should do the mods first and then tell them what i want or just have them tune it according to my plans?

the mods are nothing major, but here's a list:

-K&N Fipk cold air intake
-MSD ignition kit
-MSD 8.5 wires
-throttle body mod

i'm just trying to wake this thing up a bit since i put the new 31's on it. is there anyone else running this PCM on their Blazer with similar mods?

[FraserFishin']

Little Ten.

Our trucks sound somewhat similar besides I'm a ZR2 S10. Running the same size tire etc. I exchanged a few emails with wait4meperformance.
I know for sure if you plan on changing from 31's anytime soon it will have to be reprogrammed. It sounds like the re vamped pcm will understand different gas grades, maybe it adapts to throttle body/intake w/o re programming. Never asked Hannah about intake and such.

[travy]

Quote: Originally Posted by little-ten

im planning on getting a pre-tuned pcm from these guys for my 96 Blazer 4x4. i have some planned mods for it, but do not currently have them done. do you thank i should do the mods first and then tell them what i want or just have them tune it according to my plans?

the mods are nothing major, but here's a list:

-K&N Fipk cold air intake
-MSD ignition kit
-MSD 8.5 wires
-throttle body mod

i'm just trying to wake this thing up a bit since i put the new 31's on it. is there anyone else running this PCM on their Blazer with similar mods?

Just in my opinion, I would get the tune first. Then see how that feels on your basic stock engine. Then Do all your mods and spend the 9 bucks for shipping and get a re-flashed one. Just to feel how much of a diffence it makes between mods.

Either way you can't go wrong.

[FraserFishin']

Anyone one have torque numbers for before and after the PCM?

[Neeseius]

they aren't going to be much higher, maybe 10lbs in the upper RPMS which is good, the shift firmness is what gives you most of your gain in acceleration

[Mikz86TA]

Freindly correction.
Stock 1998-up was 180HP/240TQ on VIN-X and 190HP / 245TX on VIN-W.
Id like to add that some mods may reduce one aspect (HP or TQ) while yeilding better results of the other. So in 'real-world' you would have to dyno after each mod to see where the ups and downs are.
The TQ improvement if an auto *could* be very little lets say....but the gain in reducing TQ management would make the TQ (or HP) more usable by not falling off during a shift. Thus a dyno number may not be the focus on the result, but rather a timeslip number.
Make sense?

Quote: Originally Posted by FraserFishin'

These trucks run 250 ft/lbs torque stock.
If I did the PCM tune from wait4meperformance, plus my cold air intake + flowmaster side exhaust (before the back tire). How many HP's + ft/lbs torque before the new PCM compared to after.

Any approximations? Just trying to determine whether its work the $150 yet

[Mikz86TA]

[quote=Mikz86TA;5103952]Freindly correction.
Stock 1998-up was 180HP/240TQ on VIN-X and 190HP / 245TX on VIN-W.
Id like to add that some mods may reduce one aspect (HP or TQ) while yeilding better results of the other. So in 'real-world' you would have to dyno after each mod to see where the ups and downs are.
The TQ improvement if an auto *could* be very little lets say....but the gain in reducing TQ management would make the TQ (or HP) more usable by not falling off during a shift. Thus a dyno number may not be the focus on the result, but rather a timeslip number.
Make sense?

We have a shop here that uses HP Tuners and has a DynoJet. My freind bought a 06 GTO with 6K miles. Only mod was a Magnaflow cat-back. For lack of me knowing the exact numbers heres the basic gains and mods.
Stock was rated 400HP/TQ at flywheel LS6
Dyno with exhaust only was 341HP and close on TQ at wheels
Dyno with exh., Kooks new LTs and Cat Delete was 356HP and close on TQ at the wheels.
After 4 tune and dyno runs with HP Tuners, he got 396HP and close on TQ at the wheels.
That was $1200 headers coated and mid-pipes for only 15HP.
But after the tune a 40HP increase was added to that for about $250 for the tune and dyno runs.

Power cost money. If you can get close to 30HP increase for $175 (new PCM) or $75, doesnt that sound worth it?

The LS6 was pig rich in the upper RPM band. The exhaust even sounded better after the tune.

So instead of getting 15HP for $1200, he got 55HP for $1450. Still steep since those headers were alot coated and with the goodies. But that gives you a HP-per-$ ratio to figure out both ways.

[FraserFishin']

Yeah that makes sense thanks.
So stock I have 190 hp, and 250 ft pnds torque.
I have a decent exhaust and intake.
So could i say maybe 195 hp?????
For $150 I can take that little truck to around 220 hp. That sounds like a sweet deal to me.

Little trucks are surprisingly quick. My Z took a cummins diesel with the same mods, well we were both already doing about 40 km/h when we had our little race. Off the line I think he would take me no doubt.

You seem to be knowledgeable with cars. Would a new Y pipe on these trucks help? I heard they are quite restrictive

[raider600]

its 190 at the crank. your looking at about 150-155 to your wheels.

[Onimun]

Quote: Originally Posted by FraserFishin'

For $150 I can take that little truck to around 220 hp. That sounds like a sweet deal to me.

#1 You're not going to get 30 HP from this. Maybe at most 15 i would say, and thats at most.

#2 Engine puts out about 150 or so at the wheels so you would be sitting at 165 or so

#3 Torque > horsepower IMO

[FraserFishin']

Quote: Originally Posted by Onimun

#1 You're not going to get 30 HP from this. Maybe at most 15 i would say, and thats at most.

#2 Engine puts out about 150 or so at the wheels so you would be sitting at 165 or so

#3 Torque > horsepower IMO

Sorry when I said 30 I was including my intake and exhaust (I know they arn't 10 hp together, but thats what the boxes claim haha).


Does that crank hp vs wheels work for all vehicles. My friends truck is book at 300 hp with 100 hp in chip/mods. Does that mean he actually does not have that much?

[Merritt]

Quote: Originally Posted by FraserFishin'

Sorry when I said 30 I was including my intake and exhaust (I know they arn't 10 hp together, but thats what the boxes claim haha).


Does that crank hp vs wheels work for all vehicles. My friends truck is book at 300 hp with 100 hp in chip/mods. Does that mean he actually does not have that much?

All vehicles have more tq/hp at the crankshaft than they put out at the wheels. You lose tq/hp in the transmission, driveshaft, gears, etc. When you hear 190 hp at the crank, then you know it's gonna have less at the wheels, no matter what car/truck/bike, or basically anything with a motor and wheels.

[Mikz86TA]

Look it up. There are estimations online about the % reduction in drivelines. The HP/TQ at the Flywheel which is what you see listed in manufacturers specs differs from the real-world At-The-Wheels HP/TQ numbers. Also evenon a dyno where you are getting the At-Wheels numbers, there are a number of variences. They can add load on a dyno, there are SAE results and also results that take the area (altitiude and climate) at consideration.
A manual will net a least % of 'Driveline Loss' than an automatic.

Either way, you will still fell a result in the 'seat of the pants'.

Autos tend to net more 'improved feel' from a custom tune than a manual. Since the Torque Managment is heavy on the autos.

Hope this helps.

Asking questions are the only way to understand. So ask away. Ill try to put my knowledge, experiences and .02 cents in to try to help out.

[FraserFishin']

This all makes sense. We have our local diesel truck show/dyno day tomorrow. My friend is entering his 6.5L turbo with small chip/straight pipe stack and intake. Its not a powerful motor to begin with, but it will be interesting to see how close he makes it to the flywheel HP with his mods.

He said a 160 hp chip was gonna go in it. Guess I get to see a 6.5 block blow

[BLACKBOWTIESS10]

I've alway seen a 40hp drop to the wheels. Seems to be a close estimate if you want to know your rwhp. I'd say less on manual transmissions because they don't have torque converters, bands, and pumps to deal with. That figure I don't know, 40 is for autos.

and just utilizing the engine's powerband more efficiently would be worth the pcm. I know my tranny mods are going to waste because of TM.

[Crew Cab Sonoma]

Quote: Originally Posted by hivoltagedriver

The torque management is not what is causing your "flat spots." And Jesse does not usually removed the torque management. The bogging after shifts is due to improper shift points, and once you get the reprogrammed PCM installed, you will notice that it doesn't happen any more. The truck will make more power all around, and the shifts will not drop the RPMs into a range where the motor is not making the torque that it needs to be to pull right. I had the same problem with mine before the tune. I have a shft kit installed, and it would hit 2nd and fall on it's face.

tourqe management does indeed cause the "flat spots" you feel on upshifts...
pulling about 30+ degrees of ign. timing tends to do that...

shift firmness is improved by jacking up tranny line pressure.

Jesse will typically remove TM by 75% if requested, but he generally recomends against completely removing it.

however, it really wont hurt a 4L60 in good condition, if it was completly removed in these trucks.
a N/A 4.3 in a light truck isnt much of a threat to these trannys, especially when you consider the same basic tranny is used in much heavier full size trucks, with much more powerful V8`s....

[travy]

Okay, just got mine installed and did a 10 minute drive.
First of my ZR5 only has slightly bigger tires, exhaust, intake, TB Mod and that's it. Not too much at all.

Now, starting up my truck the idle is lower. I wonder why? Normal driving i can't tell much of a differnce, untill i look at the rpms. They are shifted a bit. Hitting the gas harder i see differnce a bit better, but i don't feel it. Plus my truck is still running 89 octane.

No SES light...yet.

I like it and think it is worth the money. But i wish it was a little more noticeable.

I e-mailed them a list of what they did to my PCM.

[Merritt]

Travy, it takes a while for the full effects to be noticed. It took a couple of days for me to notice anything. Also when I started my truck up right after I installed the computer the rpm's were low, but that went away after a couple of hours. Hopes this helps.

[travy]

Quote: Originally Posted by Merritj2417

Travy, it takes a while for the full effects to be noticed. It took a couple of days for me to notice anything. Also when I started my truck up right after I installed the computer the rpm's were low, but that went away after a couple of hours. Hopes this helps.

Yup, I do actually notice a difference now. Had to do some driving around town today and I do feel a difference and notice it also. No more low RPMs. But what comes with that is my SES light on, so tomorrow I might swing by the dealership and ask them to do the Crank Relarn.

I'm happy with this.

[gchemist]

I'm next on the list for this modification. I need something to push my 96 over 17.5 MPG.

One modification in the PCM has not been discussed. 4 doors are notorious for having a very loose torque converter. I can cruise for miles sometimes before the converter locks up. Even when hot too. Can the PCM be flashed to control part of the lock feature? Say lock it above 55 MPH? I installed a 24000 GVW external tranny cooler. Oil temps take a while to get hot.

[BlkBlzr01]

i should have asked this in my previous post, but do the PCM tunes also correct your speedometer?

[Merritt]

Quote: Originally Posted by little-ten

i should have asked this in my previous post, but do the PCM tunes also correct your speedometer?

Yup, sure do.

[Merritt]

Quote: Originally Posted by travy

Yup, I do actually notice a difference now. Had to do some driving around town today and I do feel a difference and notice it also. No more low RPMs. But what comes with that is my SES light on, so tomorrow I might swing by the dealership and ask them to do the Crank Relarn.

I'm happy with this.

Can you tell a difference in the 1-2 upshift? That's where I noticed the TM gains most, that and downshifting under heavy accelaration.

[travy]

Quote: Originally Posted by Merritj2417

Can you tell a difference in the 1-2 upshift? That's where I noticed the TM gains most, that and downshifting under heavy accelaration.

Yes, it's firmer. Nothing compared to servos, but i can tell. Actually today my SES light went off? But I should still do the crank relearn.

[Merritt]

Yeah, mine still hasn't came on, but I'd still do the crank relearn. I'm gonna go by the dealer either tommorow or the next day to get it done to mine.

[nukem1st]

I just ordered mine last Thursday, I hope to get here pretty soon,I'm gettin a little anxious, after learning and from what others are saying, so you really think its worth the money?
Is it better than the Hypertech?

[King_Ice_Flash2]

If anyone in the SE WI area needs the relearn done because they didn't give him the original PCM, just let me know. I just ordered the scanner, and will do it for free in the vehicle, or if you have your original PCM, I can save you a copy of your old tune and copy the variation data to your new tune.

[BigBird03]

Hey Travy and Merrit J......what specs did you have Jesse tune your PCM to?

[jdamc]

Hello everyone! Just thought i would share my feedback. I got my computer last week. Put it in the truck and it started right up. I noticed the rpms were
lower right off. Smoother running. After a 5 min. warm up i started down the road, as soon as it shifted i got a huge grin on my face. (one shift and I knew I made the right choice) I already had a shiftkit but still found it lacked a hard kick, thanks to the TM. But now it was kicking real hard. All most too much! After a week of driving I was very happy with the improvement. Way more fun too drive. On monday i went in and had the crank relearn done. I never had the srs light come on. Since monday the truck drives even better! And the shifts calmed down, now it shifts perfectly.Chirps everytime if i want too, It down shifts quicker with less throttle, pulls harder and the gas seem to be staying in the tank longer. I haven't figured out the mpg yet. I love it!

[BlkBlzr01]

i have read pretty much the whole thread, but i dont see why you have to do the relearn if your light doesn't come on. what's the point?

[jdamc]

Without it your truck couldn't tell if it's misfireing or detinating. This will take it's toll on your engine!

[Merritt]

Quote: Originally Posted by BigBird03

Hey Travy and Merrit J......what specs did you have Jesse tune your PCM to?

I had him tune it for 93 octane, remove torque management by 75%, remove top speed limiter, and told him that if there were any other mods that he thought would give me better performance to do them also. That's all I requested, you can also request that he change your shift points, or if you have a code show up from a mod you've done to your truck, he can make it go away too.

Quote: Originally Posted by little-ten

i have read pretty much the whole thread, but i dont see why you have to do the relearn if your light doesn't come on. what's the point?

In the instructions that Jesse sent with my PCM he said that performing the crank relearn was mandatory, because if you don't have this done your engine won't detect misfires, just like jdamc said.

[travy]

Wow. Okay W4M performance PCM FTW.

/end of thread

[BigBird03]

Quote: Originally Posted by travy

Wow. Okay W4M performance PCM FTW.

/end of thread

huh?

[muckRunner]

hey all, let me first say that im new only to pcm tuning. and i have an 02 blazer, relevant mods being K&N short ram, magnaflo with turndown b4 axel, did the MPFI fuel injector upgrade, always run 93oct (not really a mod but relevant).

i read something on the efi-live forums about eliminating "abuse management" and TQM is part of abuse management. i searched but cant really find what this does or if it even applies to the 4l60e. shift learning is another topic i haven't seen discussed here either (disabling it).

also as far as line pressure, how much did you have jesse up the pressure if you have a shift kit. does the electronic adjustment compliment the mechanical or does it make it too high. i read that most tranny's can only take about 250lbs before they start tearing up the internals. i plan on installing a shift kit and vette servos within a few months after getting the new computer.


and @ travy, you said they emailed you a list of what they did? could you maybe post that on here so that some of us can get an idea of how much we can play with this thing? such as changing shift points/timing.

thanks

sorry i dont post more often but i feel its better to be silent than answer something twice.

[King_Ice_Flash2]

Torque management pulls timing under hard acceleration and during shifts.

Depending on what you are running for a "shift kit" you may actually have line pressure taken out from the factory levels. He may also need to add more time to the shift to compensate for the shift kit. If you tell him what you have done for transmission work, he can take a pretty good guess at what the values need to be, so you shouldn't have much to worry about; however, I think a better investment in the transmission would be valve body with the steel inserts, sun gear, and planetary. You can pretty much do the equivalent of a shift kit with just tuning. It's not so much how much line pressure, but how it is applied.

I didn't look into it too far, but the tune was leaned out, more timing, burst knock retard was taken out. Actually, I didn't see many values that stayed the same. If you have a question about a specific section of the tune, I can look at what was all changed for you.

It's not so much the list of what "we can play with this thing" because he will adjust the tune to accommodate the mods you have done.

[muckRunner]

ok cool, so what im understanding is with the tune, money would be better spent on stronger tranny parts instead of a shift kit. so in your opinion do you think that our engine has enough power (even with mods) to damage the tranny if TM is disabled or should i have him leave it at 10 or 20%? im sure that eventually i could build the 4l60e up so it could handle 500+ hp but right now its bone stock and i prolly wont change anything major (that requires removal and disassembly) until the truck is paid off and im ready to start an LS build up. payoff wont be for another 2 years so...

thanks

[King_Ice_Flash2]

I would have him leave the torque management the way it is from his base tune.

Now on some vehicles, such as the CTS-V, they are getting a big jump from 13.5 > 12.9 in the 1/4 mile by disabling torque management. You will see virtually no performance gain by having him further reduce TQM from his base tune.

[mysdime02]

well i got mine in today! im impressed, started up and ran fine. going to my ckp relearn monday. it is running great right now though. as many have stated....it was well worth the $159!

[muckRunner]

i make extra money doing tattoos and mechanic work on the side and made like $180 last night... will be calling jesse monday or tuesday! maybe now ill be able to spin my big ass 255/70/R15's (have UD pulleys and wheel tubs arriving monday too!)

[hkellogg]

Quote: Originally Posted by uNsPoiLd

i make extra money doing tattoos and mechanic work on the side and made like $180 last night... will be calling jesse monday or tuesday! maybe now ill be able to spin my big ass 255/70/R15's (have UD pulleys and wheel tubs arriving monday too!)

I'm assuming you have a posi rear end and non stock gears... otherwise this won't make you spin your tires....not a huge jump in hp...I just got mine in friday and it makes it more fun to drive that's about it and more grunt off the line....its an electronic trans kit

[muckRunner]

ok ok then ill spin one tire, lol. disabling TM or even drastically reducing it should give the umph needed to break it loose easier than with it at 100%. new gears are on my to do list. right now i got 3.42 gears. id like to get 3.73 with an lsd. and btw if i had a posi rear it'd make it harder to spin tires, not easier.

[travy]

Okay, the dealership wants 94 bucks for the CKP. They say that's the flat rate for it.

I'm going to well know performance shop here in town, they are charging me 85 bucks.


Way too much, but i'm getting it done any way.

Another question, say i send it back and get other things done on the pcm...will i need to have the CKP done each time?

[BLACKBOWTIESS10]

Quote: Originally Posted by uNsPoiLd

right now i got 3.42 gears. id like to get 3.73 with an lsd. and btw if i had a posi rear it'd make it harder to spin tires, not easier.

Yeah, but nobody wants to see a one legger lol
go with some 3:73 or 4:10 and an eaton posi
when I need clutch work done on my eaton I'm going with some 3:73....that's if gas prices don't f*** me first.

Travy: While I'm not positive, I think the new pcm has the crank learn on it from the last vehicle. Meaning, the learn always stays with the pcm as long as it's not deleted somehow. So......you taking the pcm off and sending it back to get re-programmed means...it should come back to you with the same crank learn you sent it in with...your own.

[travy]

Awesome, that's what i thought i read also.

Just got back from getting it done. no SES light any more(even so it would only randomly come on) but the truck feels a bit smoother.

[muckRunner]

im gonna keep my pcm and have him send me a new one so ill have to have it relearned. its my daily driver and i hate my wifes dodge neon so i have no choice, lol.

[Merritt]

Quote: Originally Posted by travy

Okay, the dealership wants 94 bucks for the CKP. They say that's the flat rate for it.

I'm going to well know performance shop here in town, they are charging me 85 bucks.


Way too much, but i'm getting it done any way.

Another question, say i send it back and get other things done on the pcm...will i need to have the CKP done each time?

The dealership here wanted 97 bucks, and the cheapest place I found other than the dealership wanted over 100, so I ended up running the new PCM for another week and a half and sending my stock one in to Jesse to get reprogrammed for 75 bucks. So in other words, I bought a tuned PCM for 160, used it for a spare just so I could spend another 75 on getting my stock PCM tuned, oh well, atleast it's all taken care of.