HHO injection on 2002 Blazer Xtreme 4.3L Results

[jbalat]

RT,
just wondering if its ok to fit a small 12v car indicator globe across the input terminals from the HHO cell to the efie ?

[rtsurfer]

You should have no problem with that. To indicate it is working?

[bobadkins]

Quote: Originally Posted by 2000extemeturbo

OK, I found some stuff at a hardware store one town over. It is Rooter brand drain cleaner. It says in big bold print on the label " contains 100% household lye"

I used 1 heaping tablespoon per gallon, and I still cannot get any reasonable production at 12 volts. But now, when I bump up the voltage to 24V, production is off the charts, but after a couple minutes, my cables heat up and then it starts to throw my 100A circuit breaker every 8-10 seconds.
I've got a 100 amp shunt in line with the breaker, but I'm not exactly sure of what to look for in voltage drop as we use this shunt on -48V systems.

Again, I've got 6X6 plates configured as follows

+NNNNN-NNNNN+NNNNN-NNNNN+

The original patent for a Brown's Gas Generator called for NOT using any electrolyte. Only tap water. I think you need to review your generator design.

My first experiment in all this HHO was at the kitchen sink. I took an old External Zip Drive power supply - 5 volts @ 1 amp. I cut the plug off and striped back the insulation one inch. I cut two strips out of a Pepsi can and poked a hole in the one end of each strip. I put the wires into the holes and twisted them tight. Dropped the Pepsi Can Electrodes (really crude) into a glass of water and plugged in the power supply. Bubbles. Hydroxy bubbles. Not enough to do much, but as inefficient design as is imaginable.

Electrolysis begins at 1.24 volts.

I put an HHO generator on my 1991 S10 2.5l and got an overall improvement in mileage of 6 mpg. But, my truck was much easier than what most people will face. The computer always gives me a Code 13, which means that the computer can not talk to the oxygen sensor. It always runs rich and only gets 18 mpg. It never gets the signal from the O2 sensor to lean out the mix, and the default program says to run rich as a safety precaution. What a stupid design. But, it works well with HHO. Having an HHO generator gave me more power, smoother running, and better mileage. City mileage did not seem to change much at all, but my hiway mileage is up a little.

But, the extra work involved does not really make it worthwhile. Works good in warm weather. In winter, it freezes solid and does nothing at all. I could heat the garage, but all that would solve is to give my money to the electric company instead of the oil companies.

HHO works. Despite some of the misguided physics lessons on this forum. Some of the arguments are really silly. Laws of Themodynamics and such are completely out of place. Claiming that the alternator will run more and use more gas in the process is the silliest. This one is easy to prove. Take off your Serpentine Belt and check your mileage. I will not go higher on most vehicles. A few are well tuned enough that you can make a less than 5 percent difference. But, only a very few. You can buy freewheeling pullies that do not turn at all until higher RPMS. That usually saves little or no gas, too. A tiny increase in horsepower is all you get.

I am convinced that most of the benefit from HHO is not in they Hydrogen. It is the Oxygen that is causing better, hotter, cleaner, combustion. The Hydrogen is a little extra fuel, but the Oxygen is causing you to burn your gasoline a little more efficiently. If I could figure out a way to meter the oxygen precisely, I would put an oxygen bottle on my truck. I am nearly certain I would have the same results.

[2000extemeturbo]

Quote: Originally Posted by bobadkins

Take off your Serpentine Belt and check your mileage.

Not a good idea! your serpentine belt also runs the waterpump!

But yeah, I know my problem is in the design. I finally got my brain wrapped around the smack booster, and must say that I think it will work better than any flat plate design.

but, with gas prices down, I've found that it's much more fun just to blow stuff up. I'm currently thinking about a small fuel-air.

[jbalat]

Talk about blowing stuff Up.. We nearly got a heart attack when this thing went off yesterday in a big bang !!






Because the bubbler was still intact it looks as though there was a spark created in the HHO cell at the positive terminal.

Also I couldn't get the efie to work as it should so I opted for a much simplified design using a 1.5 volt battery

Link is here

I set this to 130mV for my 250km trip.
Results were similar to running no HHO and no Efie... I may have had to go higher with the O2 sensor boost but it will take some time before i get to retry it ???

[jbalat]

Guys I really need your help with the efie

I have been running it now between 100mV and 380mV with no noticeable difference without HHO

One of my friends mentioned that the O2 sensor plays a very small role in the cars fuel consumption and some cars are more reliant on the Mass Air Flow sensor (MAF). This is either the case, or my efie isn't working as it should, or the ECU isnt seeing the O2 signal ??

Does anyone have any knowledge of this and maybe how to modify the MAF signal ?

From the manual.. At 700rpm the Air flow sensor freq is 25-45Hz.. At 2000rpm it is 85-105Hz..

My sensor also has a temperature sensor = 6kOhm at 0deg, 2.7kOhm at 20degC and 0.4kOhm at 80degC.

It also incorporates an atmospheric pressure sensor which is 4V at sea level and less as you go higher.

[rtsurfer]

jbalat

Which EFIE are you talking about? THe zero or the battery mod?

I have a 5ohm resistor on the ground on The MAF sensor

I will have to check to see what other mods I have done to the sensors

But running with HHO ouch you will lean the engine

HHO helps the gas burn better and helps keep temps cool in the engine.

When you run lean without it DANGER

[jbalat]

RT good to see you are back.. You must be feeling better..

I never got the zero efie working. I am using the simple one with the 1.5v battery..

I have not installed the EGT gauge as yet so not sure whether the engine is running too lean or not. Judging by my fuel consumption I can honestly say the efie is doing nothing anyway..

I want buy the computer cable for my car to see whether the efie is working. Then I can work on the MAF


Anyway building my replacement HHO cell. Basically all I will do as add and extra spacer and plate to each end of my Gen II (to make it 6 cells in series * 2).. and use plastic shrink wrap around it. This should add a small amount of extra gas and reduce the voltages a little to minimise heat.

I am also working on producing a unit with 7 cells * 2 off = 14 cells = 28 plates .. Each plate pair will be dunked in individual chambers (similar to a car battery) This will mean there is NO chance of current loss.. Each 7 pair cell will be in series. The other 7 pair cell will run beside it to ensure all magnetic fields are travelling the same way.

[rtsurfer]

jbalat


First off build the unit upsidedown with electrical under the water.

Use 3m 5200 Fast cure to seal the cell not goop.

Yes I feel better this flu took it out of me.

The battery mod I am not sure how that one works but it seems to me that it will raise the lower end of the voltage and keep the computer from seeing anything less then your setting.

The zero setup is what I am using for a few months and I have a steady increase of 20%.

I would like to see your EFIE up close I am sure I can figure out what is wrong with it. And with your year car it should work fine.

I am still working on my final unit. It will consist of 3 chambers all within the same unit.

I am so tired of the 2 smacks I have in the car. One is a little smaller and it is hard to keep it tuned right. The larger one works great but I do not have space for another.

My idea is to put 3 in the same box and use the same electrolite for each. THis way there is no guess work.

[optiskeptic]

RT,

I joined this site just because I really appreciate all your effort and detailed documentation on what you have tried so far, and what results you got.

However, I saw a reference quite some time ago (May) where you described a before/after test-run circuit you were about to make, to document exactly how it improved your mpg at that time (I understand it has since decreased somewhat) - but I missed seeing the results.

Did you ever run that test?
If so, could you kindly point me to the results?

Also, you mentioned that you are now 'fighting' the ECU as it 'adjusts' the AF ratio... are you getting that from a scantool, and if so, what is it actually doing?

Have you tried resetting the ECU so you can get back to your original results?

And, since you have done all the great improvements on the HHO generator side, have you gone back to stock (O2, AF, MAP, MAF, EFIE mods disabled)?

Thanks much, I've got a relatively simple design I'm about to install on a 91 Bravada, 4.3L, sometime this week... stay tuned!

[rtsurfer]

optiskeptic

All the gains are there each page contains a little info. At the moment I am seeing just 20% steady day by day

Some of the sensors have been adjusted to help yes. and I have gone to stock a few times and always go back to 17.5 -18. Which is right where it was before I started.

I am seeing just under 2liters minute in hydrogen production. I feel my gains could be better with more in the 4liter mark. SO that is my goal

But My goal is to get there using lowes or homedepot. THis way it is easy to reproduce by anyone. And since I really dont have huge pocket of money to dump.

This is all just been trial and error.

My next setup should be near 3liters per minute. Under one complete unit.

I will have to go back to some notes and see the exact sensor changes I did but for right now I have been working on this unit. Again Trial and errors

[jbalat]

RT,
As per my previous post my MAF is frequency based, not voltage based like yours..

" From the manual.. At 700rpm the Air flow sensor freq is 25-45Hz.. At 2000rpm it is 85-105Hz.."

Do you know of any free schematics I could try ?

[rtsurfer]

http://www.fuelsaver-mpg.com/doc/TuningForMileage.html

about half way down you can see How to tune MAF sensors

[jbalat]

Woohoo !!! this is exactly what I was looking for..

[jbalat]

Here is a bit of entertainment for anyone still visiting this thread
http://energyshowandtell.wetpaint.co...b+Boyce?t=anon

This is what we are all striving to achieve.. But small steps first..

My new Split GenII is nearly ready to rock.. Will post pics soon.

[deathphoenix99]

subscribes, I've played with my own booster, but mainly used it to explode water bottles. Would like to test on my dime, but want to test it some more on my lawnmower engine before running on my dd.

[jbalat]

Make sure you let us know how you go !

I have purchased an evoscan cable so I can log what is going on before and after hho.. Hopefully that will allow me to better tune the cars sensors

Unfortunately my diagnostic connector seems to have some bad wiring... One problem to another...

[jbalat]

My latest design.. Please comment.
I will let you know if it works better than the first one.

[jbalat]

Video link is here if anyone is watching.. Hah RT.. I bet this is similar to yours but you have squeezed in an extra cell ?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BFdbMw2xyZc

[deathphoenix99]

Wow jbalat, that looks very nice, wish I could built one that fancy. I'm jealous.

[A CLEANMACHINE]

hey guys this is one of the top gen to build . it's a BB SMACK IV.runs very efficient,cool to the touch,20 amps 2lpm max 27amp 2.5 lpm.bubbler is a triple design. scrubs the gas,returns water back to unit under vacuum,and sends it to intake.



it has a built in level guage in the outside plate under the gasout pipe,see it.this is a 16 plate twin set up +nnnnn-/+nnnnn-.i'm running this on my 2.2 at 5 amps gas is good but not enough.gain is7-8%.they say you need 1lpm per litre of engine size.

[jbalat]

Dont be too envious. The Gen IV looks like a go-oer..

My thing was bubbling everywhere especially around all the exposed areas and washers

The outside of the last negative plate was also bubbling

I am trying to reduce current losses by coating these areas with 5 minute epoxy..

Just goes to show that the Smack has done his research. Cant improve on perfection

[Sularus65]

I have read all of this, and I wanted to say you guys have done some fabulous work. I have been wanting to build one of these, but it hasn't made it to the top of my to do list yet. Couple of things I wanted to point out/ suggest though:

1. For those that don't understand how this helps. Gasoline is nothing more than a hydrocarbon chain: hydrogen and carbon in a chemical chain. When you burn the gasoline you are burning the hydrogen and attaching the free carbon to other molecules. By introducing HHO you are introducing more hydrogen to be burnt, that reduces the amount of fuel needed to be burnt.

2. Have you ever thought of seperating the HH from the O? Obviously they are electrically charged, and by adding a electromagnent to the bubbler you could seperate the HH from the O and send just the HH to the intake, and vent the O (which would be released as 02) to the atmo. I think you could get rid of most of your electronics and gadgets you have to use to trick the ECM into reducing fuel requirements becuase of the extra O you are adding.

Like I said this is just an idea. I remember seeing it on one of the plans I looked up for Hydrogen boosters, I think it was the Spiral Cell booster. If I get around to building one I will be sure to post it up and results for everyone to see.

J

[BudRacing]

Oxygen also burns well and is good for the combustion process. No need for separation.

[jbalat]

Yeh I thought so too.. Just like adding Nitrous.. although it does screw up the computer. Do the benefits outweigh the gains ???

[Crew Cab Sonoma]

you guys still working on the perpetual motion machine, huh?

[jbalat]

Yeh, plan to get there one day.. as for now I will keep riding my push bike to work... I go through about 1/2 litre of H2O each way...

[Sularus65]

I was just trying to point out that by seperating the HH from the O you could dispense with the extra electronics. Just a thought though. The design I saw just had a electromagnent with a steel core wrapped around the bubbler and a splitter in the bubbler to help seperate the gas paths. Like I said though, just a thought.

I don't want to nit pick, but oxygen doesn't burn. It is a catalyst. The reason NOS works is because by introducing it, allows you to introduce more fuel. That was kinda of my point in eliminating the O from the intake. It would only use the oxygen already present in the air and the comp would compensate by reducing fuel requirements to keep the AFR where it needs to be.

[jbalat]

i would love to read more about this.. Any links ?

[jbalat]

RT, can you give us a quick update on where you are up to.. and.. how many mV are you using on your efie ?

Mine is now in the car. Got some shocking figures in the past week but temp gauge was always reading low. Just changed the thermostat which fixed my temperature problem and trying again at 270mV..