HHO injection on 2002 Blazer Xtreme 4.3L Results

[jbalat]

Guys hope you dont mind a newbie joining in ? I was ready to buy one of these kits from ebay and thought I should do some research first.. I came across this forum and well....

I have lost faith in the ebay kits and water4gas since there is so much to consider which makes these kits seem like toys..ie. Efie's, MAFs, MAPs, O2 sensors, PWMs, and lets not forget Resonance at 20,000 volts and 20KHz frequency! I also read talk about how certain materials used for the elements may be actually consumed to transfer energy to the process so as to acheive extraordinary amounts of hho.... Too much to take in..!!!

Anyway, now to something real.. I love the SMACK video, the guy is a character and thinks outside the box. He has come up with a novel way of converting a normal car into an electric hybrid. He stores massive amounts of electrical energy in the batteries overnight and then converts it back to run the motor via the hho process ! Pretty Cool if you ask me...

[rtsurfer]

Well i have not played with this system for a few weeks to watch it perform. I changed out the battery after the first one failed after it tested bad.

I got a deep cycle instead.

I was able to get about 150minutes run time on one charge. Which is not bad at all.

I do not have any milage results. But the only thing I had to do was add a little water. Everything else works perfectly.

[ss350]

Hey guys! I just stumbled across this post and thought I would give my input. I love reading everyones posts and seeing all the different views on the HHO topic. I have been running HHO on my 1998 2.2L 5 speed for a couple months now. Check out the videos that I posted of my tests, but no mileage gains as we speak.

http://www.youtube.com/sawtnutz

I am not trying to sell anything, just want to add fuel to the discussion. I believe thet it can work, but just haven't proven it yet. I also have a link to my fuel usage logsheet in the description of my last couple videos.

[lesterl]

Should this thread not be called HHO INDUCTION, not Injection? Keep the posts comming I am becoming more interested every day.

What is everyone using for an electrolyte? Just curious, What are your results?

[rtsurfer]

Quote: Originally Posted by ss350

Hey guys! I just stumbled across this post and thought I would give my input. I love reading everyones posts and seeing all the different views on the HHO topic. I have been running HHO on my 1998 2.2L 5 speed for a couple months now. Check out the videos that I posted of my tests, but no mileage gains as we speak.

http://www.youtube.com/sawtnutz

I am not trying to sell anything, just want to add fuel to the discussion. I believe thet it can work, but just haven't proven it yet. I also have a link to my fuel usage logsheet in the description of my last couple videos.

Look everything looks great but. You have little production for that many amps. Of course you would not see any increase in gas milage.

Baking soda for your bath will destroy your plates. I found out first hand. And have since change to reobic drain cleaner http://www.lowes.com/lowes/lkn?actio...CRY&lpage=none my mix is 1tablespoon per gallon of Zepherhills Distilled Water

And my bath is about a month old now and it is still clear. No Sludge in the bottom.

You have a 2.2 liter engine so whay not go with a smacks booster which can give you 1.7liter per minute of hydroxy gas which is closer to your 1:1 ratio (liters of engine to liter of gas)

You have very little production as seen in the video.

Also dump that relay go to NAPA auto part and get a ST-95 relay. It is rated at 85amp. it will not burn out on you.

But over all I like your setup. I might have to have a video now.

Right now that last test is 2.1liters perminute of gas @35amps but I am running 2 boosters for that. So that is 17.5 amps each and just over a liter per minute each.

[rtsurfer]

Water4gas is crap do not bother with it. Just sell you a bunch of junk and then when it does not you say it is all hype. it is not hype if you study learn and copy what has been done already.

Dont go dowm and through a bunch of things together. Study learn and copy.

GO here he explains everything start from video one. He has one of the best boosters on the market. But funny thing is all his plans are free. He did the work already. Just copy what he does.

http://www.youtube.com/user/EletrikRide (his youtube channel)
http://www.smacksboosters.110mb.com/ (his website)

here are his plans. Everything you need to get it right the first time. All the data is there for free. He can make it for you but you can just copy what he did.
http://smacksboosters.110mb.com/Smack.pdf (his plans)

[jbalat]

rtSurfer.. keep up your good work hope you can help out ss350.. The Smack is a real laugh but he has done his research, so well worth replicating what he has done...

Another guy who has put in the hard time is Ravi..
http://www.panaceauniversity.org/Ravi%20Cell.pdf

He says his system is the opposite of electrolysis. It uses very low amps but creates high voltage pulses at the right frequency to assist with the hydrogen and oxygen atoms seperating. The 9 sets of stainless tubes (based on the S.Mayer design) are harmonically tuned so that they all have exactly the same resonant frequency. He claims to have generated more energy than was originally fed into the cell.

Anyway most of his work is in the pdf link (you will need a recent version of adobe reader). There is enough info there to build your own unit but I must admit the electronics goes a little over my head.

Anyway looking forward to build my own cell soon, probably based on the smack since its a lot easier for now.

[jbalat]

Forgot to add on the topic of electrolyte.. The Ravi/Meyer cell uses plain tap water and no electrolyte. His patent talks of the cell behaving like a capacitor.

[ss350]

Quote: Originally Posted by jbalat

Forgot to add on the topic of electrolyte.. The Ravi/Meyer cell uses plain tap water and no electrolyte. His patent talks of the cell behaving like a capacitor.

Tap water is a vague description. It may have been city water with chemical additives for cleanliness? Or was it softened or Hard country well water? Makes a big difference of conductivity of water.

[rtsurfer]

City or Tap water has too many impurities in it. Such as Metals and Chemicals. These will poison your cell.

I use only Zephryhills distilled water

To test the output of your system try this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NwMiI...eature=related

This is what I use. My system will pump 1.7liters per minute cold at 30amps. Since I am running 2 boosters (each booster 15amps) when it heats up at max it is 36amps (18amps each) and delivers 2.1liters per minute. I am not at max for this system which Smack says 20amps each so I should be at 3liters per minute

Baking Soda will produce both CO2 and HHO you want your system to produce HHO only so stick with the Reobic 100% Lye Sodium Hydroxide

Bob Boyce uses a high voltage low current system seen here http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0oeDXTAYXa0

his system use 101 plates and a power inverter for High voltage and then changes it back to DC.

I know Meyers had a system that produced HHO without anything added to the water but so far nobody has replicated it.

I also get allot of great information from http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/Hydroxy/

[lesterl]

He did say distilled water, the electronic circuits are pretty simple (I do TV repair), this sounds verrrrry interesting JBALAT. Thanks.

[rtsurfer]

ok here is part2 of the video i made it is short but you can see how the bubbler reacts from the hydrogen boosters. this is 1.7liter per minute. Well under rated for what smack has recommended. I am not trying to push this system to the max. And I want to redo the bubbler but it is there.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UA7t35YnBB4

I will go back and go over the electronics connection I made for each of the sensors.

This is just the boosters running I will redo this video because there needs to be a light behind the bubbler to see how it reacts.

JBALAT I wish you would test your system because it seems like you are around 300ml per minute with the bubbles that are produced in that video.

More video to come

[jbalat]

Thanks RT, will have a look at the video when I get home. BTW I havent built anything yet, still investigating...

Anyway tell me if you think this has any merrit..
- The idea of resonating the plates/tubes at thier natural frequency could allow the hydrogen/o2 mix to seperate from the plates quicker. This would allow for a faster reation.
- This being the case the plates/tubes should have minimum constraints. ie. If you were ringing a bicycle bell it will vibrate more without your finger on it.
- You could also assist with h/o2 removal from the plates by using a water pump flowing over the plates from the bottom upwards

??? Any comments ?

[rtsurfer]

I have not followed resonating cells. Right Now I am concerned with brute force type of systems. Easier to build.

Smaks booster used a special plate prep that help get the Hydrogen off the plates fast. That is why he can produce allot of hydrogen with little effort.

His steps included sand blasting, cross etch with 60grit sand paper and creating bumps on the surface of the plates. This gave the surface raised areas that the hydrogen could not stick to the plates.

I have used an air pump under the cell to try to help the hydrogen get off the plates fast but it just raised the amps allot. I am not sure why and stopped looking into it.

The only problem with a water pump it would have to chemically resistant.

[jbalat]

love the vid rt..Was hoping to see your extra battery but you say you will have more to come..

Do you connect the relay to your oil switch as per the Smacks suggestion. I heard of one guy leaving the unit on accidentally and blowing up his engine.

Do you have a bubbler like the water4gas design (basically an air bleed line to allow the pressure to equalise as the engine creates a vacuum in the cell) ?

Have you looked at the twister cell..It runs much higher amps but look promising. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=29_qor2ey6c

I think the guy uses a rotor at the bottom to swirl the water around. You can download his plans from google, not sure it this would work with the Smack booster but it could be worth an extra .2 ltrs/min ?

Any more progress with your cell or ss350 ?

[rtsurfer]

I hooked the unit off the Fuel Pump Relay. WHich is controled by the EUC and only comes on when the engine is running. I have had it there for months now with no issues as of yet.

This is in hte first video but i did not upload that yet.

I wanted to go into more detail as to why I did certain things to the cell and all the electronics side. But they are only 3min videos

I was not happy witht he lighting on my bubbler so I will do it again with better lighting behind it.

More to come. But I am doing a complete tear down on one of the cells this weekend so I may video that. Will see.

I will looking into that cell you mentioned.

[lesterl]

As far as the cells made with plates, might coat the sides that are electrically connected with ignition sealer or something (tool handle coater?) to keep the whole idea of the voltage drop per plate junction to a better constant maybe? I am still thinking, but am starting to purchase some stuff to experiment with, will be a long time before I install in a vehicle, If I can make enough, might try getting ahold of my fatherinlaws propane fueled small engine (8 hrse) and see if there is a way to directly run it.

[rtsurfer]

I used 4" shrink tubing wrapped around the plates.

Worked great.

[lesterl]

The whole assembly or 1 side of each plate that isnt gap side?

[jbalat]

Pictures please rt when you pull the unit apart !!

[rtsurfer]

No I wrapped the entire unit in shrink wrap for current and voltage leak in solution.

I hope I have a chance to do it this weekend.

I may build another one then install that and take one out while I rebuild it. This way my production stays up unit all 3 are running.

[rtsurfer]

well I have 1000miles on the new booster already and I did a tear down sat.

Everything looked great. I am going to resurface all the plates and try to get 1.2-1.5liters from each.

So that would be about 2.5 to 3liters for both boosters.

I had to order new chenical resistant shrink tubing this week so I will get video of the plate prep and assembly.

So maybe end of week to mid next week.

[jbalat]

So the standard electrical heat shrink is no good ?

[jbalat]

You may want to look at this clip.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Up-OiL57Gk

The guy talks about using a thicker gauge material for the joining strap along the bottom and the terminal straps since these will overheat and cause the heatshrink to melt if they are too thin.

It makes sense since these straps are not part of the process so you dont want any resistance there.

BTW I also had a look at the Hotsabi booster.
http://www.free-energy-info.co.uk/Hotsabi.pdf
Although I dont like the design since the voltage is way too high for a single cell, the design has some good points in that he uses several layers of stainless mesh as a flame arrestor and also uses a water trap and steam trap to minimise induction of water vapour which could reduce the potency of the Hydroxy mix.
On the other hand if you had a PWM to reduce the voltage it is quite a simple cell to build assuming it works ?

(Please post any easy do it yourself PWM circuits/Efi/O2/MAF sensor links if you have any)

[rtsurfer]

I order this from http://www.mcmaster.com
7132K834 Chemical-resistant Pvc Heat-shrink Tubing 4" Id Before, 2" Id After, 6" Length, Clear
7132K774 Chemical-resistant Pvc Heat-shrink Tubing 3/4" Id Before, 3/8" Id After, 6" Length, Clear

Had no problems with it, but the standard electrical shrink may be breaking down in hte bath.

[khaosxiii]

WOW! This is Crazy ... my blazer gets horible gas mileage and I couldn't tell if HHO was real or fake or what?

I've been doing some research and I found this site that's selling a kit: http:hho-injection.net

Is it worth purchasing or should I just try and setup the system my self?

[jbalat]

The Smack kits are probably a good starting point, I wouldnt spend my money on anything less.. If you are motivated you could probably buy all the parts yourself for around $150 and there is enough info in this thread (if you have time to read it all) to get you up and running..

...(copied from higher up on this page)..

---> GO here he explains everything start from video one. He has one of the best boosters on the market. But funny thing is all his plans are free. He did the work already. Just copy what he does.

http://www.youtube.com/user/EletrikRide (his youtube channel)
http://www.smacksboosters.110mb.com/ (his website)

here are his plans. Everything you need to get it right the first time. All the data is there for free. He can make it for you but you can just copy what he did.
http://smacksboosters.110mb.com/Smack.pdf (his plans)

[rtsurfer]

Quote: Originally Posted by khaosxiii

WOW! This is Crazy ... my blazer gets horible gas mileage and I couldn't tell if HHO was real or fake or what?

I've been doing some research and I found this site that's selling a kit: http:hho-injection.net

Is it worth purchasing or should I just try and setup the system my self?

Look that website http:hho-injection.net is crap follow the above links the e-book for smack boosters are free.

The only thing is taking the time to build one correctly. Starting with plate prepping.

[rtsurfer]

all my new part will be in on wednesday so it looks like my build is going to happen by this weekend.

Just working on prepping these plates better and rewiring the car for better amperage.

I will get a vid done

[lesterl]

Has anyone tried a new Motorcycle battery (before adding the acid?) That might be interesting as the lead is not real smooth and you have a particular plate numbering per volt, also the ones I have seen were capped off at top and had a vent on side (to p/u the gas!!!) Just and idea.

[lesterl]

http://i191.photobucket.com/albums/z...INSULATION.jpg

This was the extra plate insulation I was rerferring to to help reduce current draw and heat buildup.

[jbalat]

Dont know if this would work with the SMACK design since it is arranged in series.. If you wire it up in parallel it may do a better job but definitely need to test this ?

[rtsurfer]

I ran my smack unit for 120min one day and had very little increase in amps it used.

He did add an extra plate which cutt down on volts accross the plates But as of right now I do not see a need to do that since I have not had any issues with runnaway current or heat issues.

[lesterl]

Both the battery and the extra insulation are for in series cells only, I am gonna try a different way, but may end up trying the plates after all. If I can get off my a$$ and start I might come up with some results.

[rtsurfer]

Well I will be doing the reassembly on Saturday morning. I spent the week preping the plates cross sanding, denting, and drilling lets pray I can get 1.2liters of each cell.

Willget picks and maybe a video. Install and test will happen late Sunday after the glue has dried

[lesterl]

How about drilling many holes into the plates, standing them on end so the flow of electrons will also be helped with the flow of gas? Might have to try different polarities.

[rtsurfer]

Surface are from what I believe to be true is the way to go. Drilling hole removes surface area from the plates.

All the plates are aligned so that they stand tall. And like a smoke stack they help each other by getting the hydrogen of the surface of the plates above them. This creates the up and out motion.

I made several videos today one of which shows how I prepped the plates. And the complete new build I did.

I am also working on a smacks booster mod.

[rtsurfer]

well i got both boosters done but i found my bubbler to have some problems.

I will check out home depot for hi temp clear hose this should work well for a bubbler

I fired up one booster and the results are 1121mil per minute @14amps cold just installed.

cant wait to see what it will do in a week or 2.

[icon]

what are you guys doing with your old water? i read that in the prosses of makeing hho you convert the water to Hexavalent Chromium which is toxic.

[jchris]

im not denying the results, but ive heard of long term damage from running the hydrogen in the motor.

[jbalat]

I assume Chromium is released from the Stainless Steel.. Would aircraft grade Titanium be a better material to use for the plates ?

[icon]

im not sure if it would be or not. im guessing gold would be ideal but that would be one pricey converter. i think they are still looking for the best metal to use. but if you need to change your water store it and take it to a place that can dispose of it the right way. there are things you can add to the water to nutralize it as well. here is a link http://hydroxygasadventure.blogspot....-in-waste.html

[jbalat]

RT, I was thinking of using 3/8" check valve and connections only because I dont know how you physically get 2 ltrs of gas/min through the aquarium sized fittings.. Do you see any issues ?

[e350]

Does anyone know if lead works for the plates?
It's more expensive than the SS outlet covers and it might be hard to get it to to hold its shape and keep the small gap between plates.

[lesterl]

Lead works on batteries, and if you buy a new Motorcycle battery with the acid in a separate bottle you could test it with the plates in place, wired for 14v and binding posts already.

[rtsurfer]

I am using 3/8 hose myself with 3/8 check valves they are expensive $8 each from McMasterCArr

[rtsurfer]

Lead in itself will cause cancer and other heath problems,

[rtsurfer]

I am redoing a few of the videos and I want to rewire the unit before that make it cleaner,

Also I still am not certain about these being O2 sensors, I believe they are AFR (Air Fuel Ratio) Sensors so this week I will be keeping some figures on what they are doing and how to correct them,

I know I am seeing a increase of .2 amp difference in signal when unit is on the white wire, So the ECU sees the added oxygen in the exhaust.

Still working on a way to correct it. One way it to use a resistor but that will only be good at a certain RPM range (lets says crusing 1500rpm) high or lower may not effect the AFR sensor the Same

and WOT the computer does not rely on O2 input at all.

But still studing how the things works.

But still I do not get SES lights

it has been a month

[jbalat]

RT I have heard that with certain cars like the Nissan Skyline you can get a chip that replaces your ECU which you can access via a laptop to change all the settings.. This would be ideal..

There must be lots of performance places in the states that offer generic systems for other cars ?

[rtsurfer]

Yes but at what expense?

Plus it ould need to work on the fly and turn back to stock at anygiven time this is what i have been working on. A reprogram would be nice but not what ia m looking to do. It is taking some time but I am almost there.

I am at 2.2litersmin right now.