HHO injection on 2002 Blazer Xtreme 4.3L Results

rtsurfer · 05-18-2008, 05:58 PM

Quote: Originally Posted by rat

You know the maf sensor sends a frequency not a voltage depending on flow right? Higher flow, higher frequency.

Also, trying to 'trick' the computer into thinking there is less air entering the engine is not a good idea at all. You may also be interested in knowing that the computer calculates the engine torque output based on maf readings. Engine torque is then used to calculate the line pressure in the trans. When it makes more torque than it thinks it commands lower line pressure causing slip. It would be a good way to burn up a transmission.

By 'tricking' the map sensor you will tend to get higher ignition advance. Watch out for knocking/pinging. This can also cause you to run lean.

Run Lean huh!!!

That is why I am introducing an alternate fuel source. I would not do this at all if I was not using another fuel source. It would be disastrous.

As far as MAF I am only draining off millivolts not allot. And that is right I did say millivolts. As the engine RPM increases the volts increase (by millivolts) Higher RPM then Higher voltage (or millivolts) I checked double checked and triple checked.

I used a resistor in the ATS (air temperature sensor) It tricks the computer into thinking it is 10degress hotter then it actually is. By doing that it retards the ignition.

After playing with the MAP sensor (which advances the timing) I found the 2.2K ohms is about the right target for the drain of millivolts to ground. Again this has to be done while the car has already been started. The drain off can not be there when the key is on and ready to start. You will throw a code.

I am going to set up a toggle switch that will shut everything I have done down and back to stock.

Again I am not tuning for torque and HP just better mileage.

As far as the O2 sensors I see an increase in millivolts as the RPM clime (on the white wire) so using 15k resistor I have done the same as the MAP sensor and drain only a tiny amount of MV to ground.

What I do enjoy most is when people tell you can not do that or it does not work that way. The numbers do not lie.

23.22mpg city driving on a 4.3l automatic

Yogi · 05-18-2008, 06:58 PM

Everyone enjoys accomplishing a task that someone else said couldn't be done, and 23 mpg is an incredible accomplishment, but why are you so unwilling to accept the advice that is being offered here. If you would, you could do even better!

In another thread we told you how adding resistance to the O2 sensor output makes the A/F ratio richer, not leaner, and yet you insist on adding resistance to this circuit! Do you think that you have found a way around Ohm's law? Why do you insist on shooting yourself in the foot?

rtsurfer · 05-18-2008, 07:48 PM

I have done both.

I added .200mv to the line and gas milage dropped way off. 16mpg.

Now I have added a drain wire to ground pulling a few millivolts with it and my gas milage increases.

I have not done a mass amount of mods.

I only do one at a time. First the O2 sensor then MAF then THe MAP sensor and back to the O2

If the RPM increase and the white wire increases the millivolts from .4 to 1
then you need to drain a small amount of millivolts off to lean the mix.

I have drove with meters and gauges on the car and everything I have said so far is true.

I do not see how I am shooting my foot off if test after test after test. What I was told here is not what I am seeing.

Maybe the fact the cars you have are older, different, or not looking at things the same way I am.

But still I have results of almost 30% increase in gas milage!!!

But again testing will never be over.

BudRacing · 05-18-2008, 10:40 PM

Is the engine and accessory setup 100% stock otherwise?

rtsurfer · 05-19-2008, 07:50 AM

Yes,

Outside of splicing into different wires (O2 sensor,Map,MAF) No parts were changed out.

I also drilled a small hole in the air box

The switch is now connected to the MAP,and O2 Sensors

THe MAF and HHO Booster will be on a seperate switch.

BudRacing · 05-19-2008, 04:23 PM

You should wire a relay with the positive connection at the generator and switch the o2 whatchmacallit on when the generator is on and off when there is no charge to the generator. This would rule out human error with a manual switch in the cab.

rtsurfer · 05-22-2008, 10:57 AM

So for another test I ran the O2 sensors without a resistor on The white wire. My gas milage went down. From 23.22 to 22.2mpg

Yes I know it is 1 mile per gallon differnece. I put it back on to see what it will do for the next 2 days.

I am also going to try a new way to adjust the MAP Sensor. Currently the setup will not allow the voltage to go over 2.65volts.

Will keep posted

rtsurfer · 05-22-2008, 11:00 AM

Quote: Originally Posted by BudRacing

You should wire a relay with the positive connection at the generator and switch the o2 whatchmacallit on when the generator is on and off when there is no charge to the generator. This would rule out human error with a manual switch in the cab.

The system is already set up under relays that is turned on by hte fuel pump relay. But for the MAP sensor I am just doing test which uses a switch.

When testing is done I will put that on a ground relay system

rtsurfer · 05-22-2008, 10:25 PM

ok I now have a new map sensor adjuster I will try this for a few days and see how it works. Right now I have it trimmed off 200mv

rtsurfer · 05-24-2008, 10:17 PM

I took the booster apart today to add a water level. Everything looked good for not having to open it for over a month.

So the new mixture worked a little better and the end result is cleaner plates. So far I have been very happy with the results

The MAP sensors still needs to a little adjustment.

rtsurfer · 05-26-2008, 11:30 AM

Ok I redid the bubbler. I think this is a much better design. I put the inlet from the HHo booster in the bottom of the bubbler. No plastic tube.

THe top now goes to the engine. THere is one way pass valves on both side of the bubbler to help prevent flash backs.
If there is a flash back a cork I have installed in the bubbler should pop. Also the water will be forced into the tube going to the booster. There is no way it can get to the booster this way.

Before i was always worried if there was a flashback the plastic tube inside the bubbler would melt and still flash back into the booster.

rtsurfer · 06-03-2008, 07:46 PM

Ok new stuff has been done.

I added a new MAP Sensor adjuster, and a new setup that will add voltage to the blue wire on both O2 sensors. I can control both the voltage
(in millivolts) and the pulse length/time.

At the moment and testing it since Sunday Night I have new gas mileage.

25miles per gallon city.
81.3 miles traveled and 3.25gallons added

BudRacing · 06-03-2008, 11:25 PM

Not bad at all. I just checked my city mileage today and clocked 18.

When you get this all sorted out as a dependable setup are you planning on doing a condensed write-up?

rtsurfer · 06-04-2008, 07:34 AM

Yes of course. I have been working on htat now. But still a long way to go.

freewebs.com/hhosurfer

burgh · 06-04-2008, 11:33 PM

Quote: Originally Posted by rtsurfer

you can buy them premade buy they guy I got the design from. This guy designed it made it simple and will even build one for you. http://youtube.com/watch?v=CxPQdrfSy...x=0&playnext=1

his website is http://www.smacksboosters.110mb.com/

His design is much better then mine. But I want to learn about alternative fuels.

Stan Meters (RIP) developed the system years ago but was killed for what he knows. You can watch how he made it, why and how it all works.
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-8355517779975365309&q=stanley+meyers+duration%3Alo ng&total=16&start=0&num=10&so=0&type=search&plinde x=0&hl=en

Please stop spreading this story. Stan Meyers was not 'killed by some mysterious outfit for his knowledge'

You are referring to Stan Meyers who died of an aneurysm.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stanley...ater_fuel_cell

As for the rest of this, these systems have been disproven time and time again. NO independent testing lab has EVER found any of them to increase mileage or performance. Everytime this magic gas mileage improvement gadgetry is put on a dyno it fails.

http://www.popularmechanics.com/auto...s/1802932.html

The power required to disassociate water into hydrogen and oxygen (or make http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oxyhydrogen / Brown's Gas) and then reintroduce the hydrogen into the engine far exceeds any power or efficiency gained.

Any gains would violate the First Rule of Thermo.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_l...thermodynamics

If ANY of these systems worked AT ALL, the inventors would be overnight billionaires. The auto industry spends billions for fractional MPG increases to meet CAFE standards and they would be ALL OVER something like this if it worked in the slightest.

It's nice to be enthusiastic about doing things with your truck, and everyone wants better mileage, but this isn't it.

rtsurfer · 06-05-2008, 08:15 AM

Again this is my own personal test.

25miles per gallon city.
81.3 miles traveled and 3.25gallons added

25miles per gallon.
http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/compx...Field=Findacar

zarbon8 · 06-05-2008, 05:13 PM

The use of the sparkplug extender makes no sense to me. You have less o2 in the exhaust so you move the sensor out of the line of gas and that makes it sense more?!?!?!?!?!!?!?!?!?!?!?

TokoDragon · 06-06-2008, 07:04 AM

this sounds like what this guy did to a 68 mustang we had in the auto tech shop, he was going to college in some kind of hydrogen career field or something and made it there. He said he had it measured out so that whenever he filled his gas tank he filled the water tank in the back too. the car was still running, and didn't blow up, never heard if he got any improvement at all, but the water had to be going somewhere, and they make water injectors that spray a fine mist into the engine to improve efficency so if done right can get a little benefit just from a vapor injector

I heard on thenews they were trying to pass a law making it illegal to sell a car that has only one fuel source, such as gasoline. So if passed new cars will have to be able to run on more than one fuel source, like can run on gasoline or ethonal, not sure how hydrogen cars would work, guess they would have to have a electric powered motor to or something.

nice research!

HoyaXC07 · 06-13-2008, 01:21 AM

Quote: Originally Posted by burgh

Please stop spreading this story. Stan Meyers was not 'killed by some mysterious outfit for his knowledge'

You are referring to Stan Meyers who died of an aneurysm.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stanley...ater_fuel_cell

As for the rest of this, these systems have been disproven time and time again. NO independent testing lab has EVER found any of them to increase mileage or performance. Everytime this magic gas mileage improvement gadgetry is put on a dyno it fails.

http://www.popularmechanics.com/auto...s/1802932.html

The power required to disassociate water into hydrogen and oxygen (or make http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oxyhydrogen / Brown's Gas) and then reintroduce the hydrogen into the engine far exceeds any power or efficiency gained.

Any gains would violate the First Rule of Thermo.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_l...thermodynamics

If ANY of these systems worked AT ALL, the inventors would be overnight billionaires. The auto industry spends billions for fractional MPG increases to meet CAFE standards and they would be ALL OVER something like this if it worked in the slightest.

It's nice to be enthusiastic about doing things with your truck, and everyone wants better mileage, but this isn't it.

Just read this whole thread, it deserves a bump. There is a small homegrown company in my town that installs these kits for people on their cars. I have their information if you guys want it, I'm sure they know a lot.

I understand how introducing HHO to your engine can increase power and mileage, you are adding ANOTHER source of fuel to the combustion process, it is a product of some of the most basic rules and reactions in chemistry. I'm not Chemist but it doesnt take one to see how this works. Correct me if I am wrong but doesnt this follow the same laws of NO2 and Methonal injection?

I'd like to try this myself, it seems easy enough. Of course I'll have to look into it some more. Great thread

HoyaXC07 · 06-13-2008, 02:00 AM

Another thing, in theory you could produce enough HH0) to power the motor with out gasoline. How much HH) would this take? I'm thinking the CFM of a normal stock engine. Lets say you turned the gastank into one huge bubbler, or replaced it with one that size, it is feasible that you could run the truck on just HHO? I'm sure this would have to be a pretty high psi system.

Btw, where DJDoug with his infinite wisdom? I'm sure he would want to chime in on this.

BudRacing · 06-13-2008, 02:11 PM

Quote: Originally Posted by HoyaXC07

Just read this whole thread, it deserves a bump. There is a small homegrown company in my town that installs these kits for people on their cars. I have their information if you guys want it, I'm sure they know a lot.

I understand how introducing HHO to your engine can increase power and mileage, you are adding ANOTHER source of fuel to the combustion process, it is a product of some of the most basic rules and reactions in chemistry. I'm not Chemist but it doesnt take one to see how this works. Correct me if I am wrong but doesnt this follow the same laws of NO2 and Methonal injection?

I'd like to try this myself, it seems easy enough. Of course I'll have to look into it some more. Great thread

On dyno tests, this has not proven to gain power. When correctly implemented it is a dilution of gasoline to air which is displaced by HHO. This is also COMPLETELY different from NO2. All nitrous does is supercool the intake charge to condense the oxygen, which in turn, increases fuel to the mix which = more power.

Quote: Originally Posted by HoyaXC07

Another thing, in theory you could produce enough HH0) to power the motor with out gasoline. How much HH) would this take? I'm thinking the CFM of a normal stock engine. Lets say you turned the gastank into one huge bubbler, or replaced it with one that size, it is feasible that you could run the truck on just HHO? I'm sure this would have to be a pretty high psi system.

Btw, where DJDoug with his infinite wisdom? I'm sure he would want to chime in on this.

I doubt you could start the engine with a self-sustaining HHO generator only. After sitting for a period of time, the HHO in the system would diminish and generation would have to take place. For a vehicle that is entirely run on HHO, that would take a lot more amperage than is readily available in a standard car battery. A hybrid would work well in this case, similar in concept to a diesel run on SVO. Start up on diesel, once warm, switch to SVO.

Yogi · 06-13-2008, 02:23 PM

Quote: Originally Posted by BudRacing

On dyno tests, this has not proven to gain power. When correctly implemented it is a dilution of gasoline to air which is displaced by HHO. This is also COMPLETELY different from NO2. All nitrous does is supercool the intake charge to condense the oxygen, which in turn, increases fuel to the mix which = more power.........

Not true, Bud! N2O (Not NO2) does cool the intake charge but that is only part of the benefit. The "O" in N2O is Oxygen, and a lot more of it. The N2O provides more Oxygen for each intake stroke which allows more fuel, and more fuel + more Oxygen = more power!

BudRacing · 06-13-2008, 04:47 PM

.. Just when I think I knew what I was talking about.
At least I was close.

rtsurfer · 06-17-2008, 10:12 PM

Quote: Originally Posted by HoyaXC07

Another thing, in theory you could produce enough HH0) to power the motor with out gasoline. How much HH) would this take? I'm thinking the CFM of a normal stock engine. Lets say you turned the gastank into one huge bubbler, or replaced it with one that size, it is feasible that you could run the truck on just HHO? I'm sure this would have to be a pretty high psi system.

Btw, where DJDoug with his infinite wisdom? I'm sure he would want to chime in on this.

You can not think of replacing the air (CFM) you are replacing the fuel.

I read some where that you need to be 1 liter per horsepower per minute. but i am not sure.

I tried to figure it out one time. I came up with 300liters per minute. Using an average of 18miles per gallon.

Some more food:

Try looking up overunity.com

search for bobboyce cell.

Try Hydroxy, and workingwatercar under yahoo forums.
http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/Hydroxy/
http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/WorkingWatercar/

http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/compx2008f.jsp?year=2002&make=Chevrolet&model=Blaz er%202WD&hiddenField=Findacar

yes city will vary but I should never be getting 25mpg in my car. That link shows what my car is and what it should be getting.

I have driven my car for over a year the same path and recorded the gas mileage every time.

EVRY TIME at fill up. I never go over 18.5mpg

Since I installed an efficient unit that uses lower amps to produce higher volume of gas then my mileage went up.

My last recording was 25mpg. But on average I have gotten 22.5-23mpg. 25mpg was a high.

You can read how iceland is moving to hydrogen. How are they getting it? From water.
http://www.news24.com/News24/Technology/News/0,,2-13-443_1356277,00.html

Or a Japanese car that is running on water.
http://www.news24.com/News24/Technology/News/0,,2-13-443_1356277,00.html

Can a car run on water Yes. On demand hydrogen production while you drive takes a lot of energy
http://www.kalb.com/index.php/news/article/video-hydrogen-generator-boosts-gas-mileage/8883/

But there are people under yahoo forums who are doing it.

rtsurfer · 06-17-2008, 10:18 PM

Quote: Originally Posted by BudRacing

On dyno tests, this has not proven to gain power. When correctly implemented it is a dilution of gasoline to air which is displaced by HHO. This is also COMPLETELY different from NO2. All nitrous does is supercool the intake charge to condense the oxygen, which in turn, increases fuel to the mix which = more power.

I doubt you could start the engine with a self-sustaining HHO generator only. After sitting for a period of time, the HHO in the system would diminish and generation would have to take place. For a vehicle that is entirely run on HHO, that would take a lot more amperage than is readily available in a standard car battery. A hybrid would work well in this case, similar in concept to a diesel run on SVO. Start up on diesel, once warm, switch to SVO.

You know there are systems out there that will make HHO in the house and compress it into tanks.

Not sure when they will be available to the public.

nyc_tek · 06-18-2008, 05:06 AM

Quote: Originally Posted by rtsurfer

You know there are systems out there that will make HHO in the house and compress it into tanks.

Not sure when they will be available to the public.

Hey RTSURFER nice job!
I don't get it why people doubt this new technology,yes it does work,my friend has a 1997 saturn SL1 155k running with an HHO generator @ 57 mpg hwy 43 city......I will post a testing that was done by a news channel in Florida,yes THEY USE a DYNO TEST with great results.

The Blown Blazer · 06-18-2008, 10:36 AM

Quote: Originally Posted by nyc_tek

Hey RTSURFER nice job!
I don't get it why people doubt this new technology,yes it does work,my friend has a 1997 saturn SL1 155k running with an HHO generator @ 57 mpg hwy 43 city......I will post a testing that was done by a news channel in Florida,yes THEY USE a DYNO TEST with great results.

I would be very happy to see that video by the news.

As far as my generator goes, I really don't have the drive to do it right. Every time I get some $$, I owe something here or a bill comes up there. It's sitting until I get the time to do it right.

***philntx*** · 06-18-2008, 12:11 PM

Quote: Originally Posted by rtsurfer

You know there are systems out there that will make HHO in the house and compress it into tanks.

Not sure when they will be available to the public.

HHO = H2O or Water.

What you are using is Hydrogen or H2, not HHO

You should contact Jamie at Mythbusters. It seems that you have a miracle product that will save the U.S. economy!

rtsurfer · 06-18-2008, 07:50 PM

Quote: Originally Posted by The Blown Blazer

I would be very happy to see that video by the news.

As far as my generator goes, I really don't have the drive to do it right. Every time I get some $$, I owe something here or a bill comes up there. It's sitting until I get the time to do it right.

Yes I have seen that video.

They did it on the dyno and got a major increase.

They are redoing the test for the next month and will have results in July.

They used a doge durango.

The police dept. down here is now going to use HHO.
http://www.tcpalm.com/news/2008/jun/...may-help-save/

nyc_tek · 06-19-2008, 02:49 PM

Quote: Originally Posted by philntx

HHO = H2O or Water.

What you are using is Hydrogen or H2, not HHO

You should contact Jamie at Mythbusters. It seems that you have a miracle product that will save the U.S. economy!

Really?

http://www.hydrogenht.com/index.html

HFI technology is installed as an add-on to diesel and gasoline engines where it significantly reduces a wide variety of emissions (CO, PM, HC, CO2 and NOx) while simultaneously reducing fuel consumption by a minimum of 10%. HFI units are being used by over 150 fleets of long-haul transport trucks, ambulances, municipal buses and other heavy equipment, earning HFI the dominant position as the world's most widely-used on-board electrolysers. The technology is based on electrolysis and the units split water, on-board the vehicle, then vent the hydrogen and oxygen directly into the air intake of the engine. Adding hydrogen significantly improves the efficiency of combustion, in the engine, with significant financial and environmental benefits.

If you say so "Miracle product" than argue with the Canadian government "Environmental Technology Verification" (ETV) gave Hydrogen Hybrid Technologies Inc. (HHT) the approval of this technology..Hydrogen generators are real it's the way of the future.

http://www.etvcanada.com/overview.asp

HHT announced that it has assumed complete responsibility for the ongoing testing of Hydrogen Fuel Injection (HFI) by one of the largest suppliers of vehicles to the U.S. armed forces. As part of its license agreement with Canadian Hydrogen Energy Company (CHEC), HHT will be responsible for all test monitoring and market development within the important military marketplace. The testing has been taking place in Texas and at the U.S. Army testing facilities at Yuma, Arizona, for over nine months

http://www.tradingmarkets.com/.site/...20News/623327/

PS:I am not here to promote any product or company,i just want to inform the public HYDROGEN technology is REAL.

nyc_tek · 06-19-2008, 03:12 PM

OK here's more video goodies about the so call "miracle fuel"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genepax

Genepax (株式会社ジェネパックス, Kabushiki-kaisha Jenepakkusu?) is a Japanese corporation that claims to have created a car which can run on nothing but water.[1] According to the company, a proprietary unit, a type of membrane electrode assembly (MEA), breaks water apart into hydrogen and oxygen using a chemical reaction, which provides fuel for a hydrogen fuel cell to run the car.[2]

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21134540...43533#25243533

http://www.reuters.com/news/video?videoId=84561

Raylo · 06-19-2008, 07:43 PM

No offense guys but this is just a scam. Simple chemistry and physics constraints mean you can't get more energy out of this than it takes to split the H2 out. Electrolysis is a great way to make O2 (with H2 as an unwanted byproduct) on nuclear submarines where there is plenty of excess electrical generation capacity and no other source of O2. But you're not gonna get a significant quantity of H2 from a 100 amp alternator..... and it will be less than the gasoline used to produce it.

nyc_tek · 06-19-2008, 08:43 PM

So i guess the Canadian government & US arm forces must be very stupid to fall for this "scam"right?Genepax MADE IN JAPAN must be another SCAM right?

rtsurfer · 06-19-2008, 10:12 PM

And I guess my gas increase is not enough? huh!

From average 18mpg to average 23mpg city.

Raylo · 06-19-2008, 10:28 PM

Tek, you are free to believe what you choose. Me? I'll wait until I see peer reviewed scientific evidence that explains how some magic membrane, or mysterious pulse frequency overcomes the laws of physics to not require many kilowatts of power to get meaningful H2 production rates from hydrolysis of water. In the interim I will not be holding my breath nor will I be impressed by little toy scamware cars driving around with who knows what under their skin.

And surfer, good for you. I hope to soon see you (or whoever sold that magic technology to you) on the cover of lifestyles of the rich and famous. Seriously, I wish you well. And if it works for you, that's all that's important, right? And please don't forget your S10 compadres when you strike it rich.

nyc_tek · 06-19-2008, 11:35 PM

Quote: Originally Posted by Raylo

Tek, you are free to believe what you choose. Me? I'll wait until I see peer reviewed scientific evidence that explains how some magic membrane, or mysterious pulse frequency overcomes the laws of physics to not require many kilowatts of power to get meaningful H2 production rates from hydrolysis of water. In the interim I will not be holding my breath nor will I be impressed by little toy scamware cars driving around with who knows what under their skin.

Well Mr Raylo you're free to believe this is nothing but a "SCAM",perhaps you should write to the US & Canadian government they fell for the scam of the century,I am sure they will take your advice to back it up with scientific evidence..As for the Japanese culture they would never pull a scam like this one,GENEPAX is real just remember us in the near future.Do you have any solution for the global gas crisis mr Ralo?The funny part most people in America complain about high gas prices,no one seems to have the solution to this crisis.President Bush requested "DOMESTIC DRILLING" congress opposed to it once again.How can we be energy independent if we can even drill our own oil?

Raylo · 06-20-2008, 07:34 AM

Hey Tek, I am on your side in theory. Domestic drilling makes no sense unless and until we reduce our overall consumption. Otherwise it will make little or no price relief and just further enrich big oil. But the only viable near term technologies I see are hybrids and the new clean high efficiency diesels. Wishful thinking about "burning" water, when it is in fact an "ash" chemically already is not productive, IMHO.

This problem also affects the fuel cell cars that are being developed. They surely will develop cost-effective fuel cells. But where to get the H2 to run them? Unfortunately the only way that is remotely energy neutral is reforming natural gas. But that will just put more demand on the nat gas supply and still requires other enegry source that creates CO2 in the reforming process. If we had excess nuclear plant capacity we could make plenty of H2 in a carbon neutral way, but the actual energy balance is still negative. This could still be beneficial as it converts a staionary carbon neutral power source to mobile fuel. But this is long way down the proverbial road.

Not sure what is going on with the Genepax thing since it is "proprietary info". But their "membane" might just be a hydride compound that evolves some H2 in a chemcal reation when water mixes in. So the H2 comes from the compound, not the water. If so it would have to be replaced often and the H2 compound would have to be produced with other energy sources that will be a net loss of energy.

As far as what I see in this thread, there is lots of leaning and water injection and suff going on. That and some careful driving can make modest mileage gains. But I see absoluely no evidence of any production of H2 in quantities necessary to provide propulsion.

nyc_tek · 06-20-2008, 03:19 PM

Quote: Originally Posted by Raylo

Hey Tek, I am on your side in theory. Domestic drilling makes no sense unless and until we reduce our overall consumption. Otherwise it will make little or no price relief and just further enrich big oil. But the only viable near term technologies I see are hybrids and the new clean high efficiency diesels. Wishful thinking about "burning" water, when it is in fact an "ash" chemically already is not productive, IMHO.

Raylo,your solution to reduce our overall consumption sounds like the Hussein's Obama theory.Sorry this is just plain bull,Saudi Arabia our main oil provider is the main problem(profits 1 billion $$$ a day from America ).Since Worldwide demand for oil climbed, largely driven by economic expansion and continued demand for the fuel in developing countries like China and India.What did Saudi Arabia & OPEC do?nothing,no increase to cover the new demand,just until now fearing we will find other alternatives they increased production.How can driving less in America low gas prices when it's a global crisis?

If we extrapolate from today's production rates on federal land and waters, we can estimate that the 68 million acres of leased but currently inactive federal land and waters could produce an additional 4.8 million barrels of oil and 44.7 billion cubic feet of natural gas each day.
That would nearly double total U.S. oil production, and increase natural gas production by 75%. It would also cut U.S. oil imports by more than a third, and be more than six times the estimated peak production from the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge (ANWR).

It is unconscionable that American presidents have to go to Saudi Arabia and beg for more oil. We have been blessed with abundant resources, and we can extract them and use them wisely and safely.” Democrats continue to insist that we can conserve our way to low gas prices and that alternative fuels will fuel our cars. We should get to creating alternative fuels today, but we should do that from a position of energy independence.As long as we as a nation keep buying the global oil crisis spin and depend on foreign markets, then get used to paying permanently at least 5 to 6 dollars a gallon at the pump.

BlueDime · 06-20-2008, 04:33 PM

I think you guys are missing something. You are assuming that Hydrogen/Oxygen and gasoline/Oxygen combustions are going to act separately. If that was true then the laws of thermodynamics say you will lose gas mileage. However, you have mostly Hydrogen, Oxygen, gasoline, and Nitrogen going into the engine. It is likely that the hydrogen is not going to solely react with oxygen. It is more likely that Hydrogen is reacting with something else to create a catalyst of some kind.

I don't have any firsthand knowledge of this technology...yet. I've been doing a lot of research and I've seen enough to convince me to try to build one of these.

Obviously, there are cars that this is working in. The one discussed in this thread is pretty simple so it doesn't have that great of gains but that doesn't mean that it is defying physics.

BudRacing · 06-21-2008, 01:10 AM

I think what a lot of guys are missing when they say that this is defying the laws of physics, is that the electricity was already being generated... just not being used.
If the case was that the alternator worked hard to create more electricity on demand, then having a high powered audio system in your car/truck would give you bad gas mileage if you drove around with it full blast all the time. That's not true in the least bit.

BlueDime · 06-21-2008, 01:25 AM

My alternator knowledge is a little rusty but don't they use electromagnets that are controlled by a regulator. That is why when the regulor goes out the electromegnets go full on creating a load that stalls your engine. The power is being generated as needed. As for a stereo decreasing gas mileage, has anyone ever measured it to find out?

Even if the alternator is making power anyway you still only get about 40% of the energy required to make HHO back so you would still lose gas mileage. I'm still going to stick with my catalyst theory.

King_Ice_Flash2 · 06-21-2008, 10:41 AM

On a 150 KW engine, a fully loaded the alternator load (ignoring bearing resistance/efficiency loss) is drawing what, 1.5 KW? It will lower fuel mileage, but hardly any. Yes, loading an alternator more does produce more resistance for the engine to turn. Try taking a small electric motor and shorting out the two connectors and turn it by hand. It will be a whole lot harder to turn than without the connectors shorted.

I would like to see what really is happening with combustion temperature/cylinder pressure/fuel mixture. I have not seen anyone test this.

rtsurfer · 06-22-2008, 10:05 AM

I would guess that is these oil prices continue and the big oil business keep ripping people off then 2 years we would see this tech on the streets.

http://www.youtube.com/v/CrxfMz2eDME&hl=en

nyc_tek · 06-23-2008, 05:37 AM

SEATTLE, WA, June 3, 2008 . . . Governor Chris Gregoire and other state and local officials today welcome home Washington-based AFS Trinity Power Corporation from a cross country tour in which its XH-150 Plug-in Hybrid SUVs have been celebrated as the possible answer to record high fuel prices, U.S. oil dependence and motor vehicle greenhouse gas emissions.Governor Gregoire, along with local, county and state officials will ride and drive the "Extreme Hybrid" today near South Lake Union in Seattle. The XH-150 is not only a possible solution to high fuel prices and vehicular greenhouse gas emissions, but also a powerful confirmation that the tighter fuel economy standards contained in the State's Clean Cars Initiative are fully achievable with technology that already exists.

http://www.afstrinity.com/video.htm

http://www.afstrinity.com/

rtsurfer · 06-23-2008, 08:32 AM

Sorry about that link does not work.

Try this one.
http://youtube.com/watch?v=CrxfMz2eDME

BlueDime · 06-23-2008, 10:16 AM

Quote: Originally Posted by King_Ice_Flash2

I would like to see what really is happening with combustion temperature/cylinder pressure/fuel mixture. I have not seen anyone test this.

I'm in the planning stages of making my own just because I want to see how it really works since the common solutions don't seem to line up. My test bed is probably going to be my 2.8 with odb1. I was planning to post my findings if I get something working. Is there an easy or cheap way to measure or get sensors for those variables?

The Blown Blazer · 06-23-2008, 10:26 AM

I'm pretty sure BudRacing has a good look on this whole idea of HHO injection.

We're not trying to defy the laws of any sort of scientific field. It is a theory that the improve of gas mileage comes from a "combustion enhancement" that the HHO gives to the fuel being burned during the combustion process. It is known that under pressure, hydrogen combusts very quickly and with alot of heat. This fact, along with the added presence of oxygen and (in some systems without a bubbler) water vapor, the gasoline/gasses mix combusts quicker and more efficently. Obviously, it's not a huge difference or increase in power, but more of an increase of efficiency.

And if by some chance all of the people with these generators who are seeing improvements are wrong, then the tested fact that it lowers emissions should be enough to make anyone happy with these systems.

King_Ice_Flash2 · 06-24-2008, 12:16 AM

Quote: Originally Posted by BlueDime

I'm in the planning stages of making my own just because I want to see how it really works since the common solutions don't seem to line up. My test bed is probably going to be my 2.8 with odb1. I was planning to post my findings if I get something working. Is there an easy or cheap way to measure or get sensors for those variables?

You could use an EGT. At least that won't be confused by the HHO.

overS10ded · 06-24-2008, 09:47 AM

Quote: Originally Posted by BlueDime

I'm in the planning stages of making my own just because I want to see how it really works since the common solutions don't seem to line up. My test bed is probably going to be my 2.8 with odb1. I was planning to post my findings if I get something working. Is there an easy or cheap way to measure or get sensors for those variables?

Would a Cylinder Head Temp (CHT) with a sparkplug gasket probe also work in addition to the EGT? I think the EGT is a more accurate indicator but without headers it's difficult to get the probe placement close enough to the cylinder to be accurate. In this case the CHT would suffice for base line and differential readings...also use a digital gauge/instrument. I'm going to have both! Which cylinder would be most conducive to read off of for the 4.3? Number 1 cylinder is easiest for EGT probe placement with my Headman headers.

Great thread!!!

overS10ded · 06-24-2008, 10:02 AM

You can find EGT's and CHT's on ebay, make sure you look for digital and that probes are included. These instruments usually retail for hundreds of dollars and probes can be $100 each as well. I am a pilot/aircraft mechanic and find good deals on ebay for instruments often. Look for "TSO'd" (Type Certificate Order) in the adds description for the instruments as the "TSO'd" gauges are FAA approved instruments for certified aircraft...not neccessary with automotive applications but this indicates a quality instrument. Should be able to get EGT's and CHT's for $50-75 each.

05-18-2008, 05:58 PM	#101
rtsurfer __/\_____\O/___ ahh shark Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 189 Location: User is: OffLine	Re: HHO injection on 2002 Blazer Xtreme 4.3L Results Quote: Originally Posted by rat You know the maf sensor sends a frequency not a voltage depending on flow right? Higher flow, higher frequency. Also, trying to 'trick' the computer into thinking there is less air entering the engine is not a good idea at all. You may also be interested in knowing that the computer calculates the engine torque output based on maf readings. Engine torque is then used to calculate the line pressure in the trans. When it makes more torque than it thinks it commands lower line pressure causing slip. It would be a good way to burn up a transmission. By 'tricking' the map sensor you will tend to get higher ignition advance. Watch out for knocking/pinging. This can also cause you to run lean. Run Lean huh!!! That is why I am introducing an alternate fuel source. I would not do this at all if I was not using another fuel source. It would be disastrous. As far as MAF I am only draining off millivolts not allot. And that is right I did say millivolts. As the engine RPM increases the volts increase (by millivolts) Higher RPM then Higher voltage (or millivolts) I checked double checked and triple checked. I used a resistor in the ATS (air temperature sensor) It tricks the computer into thinking it is 10degress hotter then it actually is. By doing that it retards the ignition. After playing with the MAP sensor (which advances the timing) I found the 2.2K ohms is about the right target for the drain of millivolts to ground. Again this has to be done while the car has already been started. The drain off can not be there when the key is on and ready to start. You will throw a code. I am going to set up a toggle switch that will shut everything I have done down and back to stock. Again I am not tuning for torque and HP just better mileage. As far as the O2 sensors I see an increase in millivolts as the RPM clime (on the white wire) so using 15k resistor I have done the same as the MAP sensor and drain only a tiny amount of MV to ground. What I do enjoy most is when people tell you can not do that or it does not work that way. The numbers do not lie. 23.22mpg city driving on a 4.3l automatic
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05-18-2008, 06:58 PM	#102
Yogi Registered (Ab) User Join Date: Feb 2008 Posts: 4,091 Location: League City, TX (Houston) User is: OffLine	Re: HHO injection on 2002 Blazer Xtreme 4.3L Results Everyone enjoys accomplishing a task that someone else said couldn't be done, and 23 mpg is an incredible accomplishment, but why are you so unwilling to accept the advice that is being offered here. If you would, you could do even better! In another thread we told you how adding resistance to the O2 sensor output makes the A/F ratio richer, not leaner, and yet you insist on adding resistance to this circuit! Do you think that you have found a way around Ohm's law? Why do you insist on shooting yourself in the foot?
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05-18-2008, 07:48 PM	#103
rtsurfer __/\_____\O/___ ahh shark Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 189 Location: User is: OffLine	Re: HHO injection on 2002 Blazer Xtreme 4.3L Results I have done both. I added .200mv to the line and gas milage dropped way off. 16mpg. Now I have added a drain wire to ground pulling a few millivolts with it and my gas milage increases. I have not done a mass amount of mods. I only do one at a time. First the O2 sensor then MAF then THe MAP sensor and back to the O2 If the RPM increase and the white wire increases the millivolts from .4 to 1 then you need to drain a small amount of millivolts off to lean the mix. I have drove with meters and gauges on the car and everything I have said so far is true. I do not see how I am shooting my foot off if test after test after test. What I was told here is not what I am seeing. Maybe the fact the cars you have are older, different, or not looking at things the same way I am. But still I have results of almost 30% increase in gas milage!!! But again testing will never be over.
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05-18-2008, 10:40 PM	#104
BudRacing Molon Labe Age: 23 Join Date: Aug 2004 Posts: 4,905 Location: Statesboro, Ga User is: OffLine	Re: HHO injection on 2002 Blazer Xtreme 4.3L Results Is the engine and accessory setup 100% stock otherwise?
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05-19-2008, 07:50 AM	#105
rtsurfer __/\_____\O/___ ahh shark Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 189 Location: User is: OffLine	Re: HHO injection on 2002 Blazer Xtreme 4.3L Results Yes, Outside of splicing into different wires (O2 sensor,Map,MAF) No parts were changed out. I also drilled a small hole in the air box The switch is now connected to the MAP,and O2 Sensors THe MAF and HHO Booster will be on a seperate switch.
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05-19-2008, 04:23 PM	#106
BudRacing Molon Labe Age: 23 Join Date: Aug 2004 Posts: 4,905 Location: Statesboro, Ga User is: OffLine	Re: HHO injection on 2002 Blazer Xtreme 4.3L Results You should wire a relay with the positive connection at the generator and switch the o2 whatchmacallit on when the generator is on and off when there is no charge to the generator. This would rule out human error with a manual switch in the cab.
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05-22-2008, 10:57 AM	#107
rtsurfer __/\_____\O/___ ahh shark Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 189 Location: User is: OffLine	Re: HHO injection on 2002 Blazer Xtreme 4.3L Results So for another test I ran the O2 sensors without a resistor on The white wire. My gas milage went down. From 23.22 to 22.2mpg Yes I know it is 1 mile per gallon differnece. I put it back on to see what it will do for the next 2 days. I am also going to try a new way to adjust the MAP Sensor. Currently the setup will not allow the voltage to go over 2.65volts. Will keep posted
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05-22-2008, 11:00 AM	#108
rtsurfer __/\_____\O/___ ahh shark Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 189 Location: User is: OffLine	Re: HHO injection on 2002 Blazer Xtreme 4.3L Results Quote: Originally Posted by BudRacing You should wire a relay with the positive connection at the generator and switch the o2 whatchmacallit on when the generator is on and off when there is no charge to the generator. This would rule out human error with a manual switch in the cab. The system is already set up under relays that is turned on by hte fuel pump relay. But for the MAP sensor I am just doing test which uses a switch. When testing is done I will put that on a ground relay system
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05-22-2008, 10:25 PM	#109
rtsurfer __/\_____\O/___ ahh shark Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 189 Location: User is: OffLine	Re: HHO injection on 2002 Blazer Xtreme 4.3L Results ok I now have a new map sensor adjuster I will try this for a few days and see how it works. Right now I have it trimmed off 200mv
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05-24-2008, 10:17 PM	#110
rtsurfer __/\_____\O/___ ahh shark Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 189 Location: User is: OffLine	Re: HHO injection on 2002 Blazer Xtreme 4.3L Results I took the booster apart today to add a water level. Everything looked good for not having to open it for over a month. So the new mixture worked a little better and the end result is cleaner plates. So far I have been very happy with the results The MAP sensors still needs to a little adjustment.
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05-26-2008, 11:30 AM	#111
rtsurfer __/\_____\O/___ ahh shark Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 189 Location: User is: OffLine	Re: HHO injection on 2002 Blazer Xtreme 4.3L Results Ok I redid the bubbler. I think this is a much better design. I put the inlet from the HHo booster in the bottom of the bubbler. No plastic tube. THe top now goes to the engine. THere is one way pass valves on both side of the bubbler to help prevent flash backs. If there is a flash back a cork I have installed in the bubbler should pop. Also the water will be forced into the tube going to the booster. There is no way it can get to the booster this way. Before i was always worried if there was a flashback the plastic tube inside the bubbler would melt and still flash back into the booster.
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06-03-2008, 07:46 PM	#112
rtsurfer __/\_____\O/___ ahh shark Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 189 Location: User is: OffLine	Re: HHO injection on 2002 Blazer Xtreme 4.3L Results Ok new stuff has been done. I added a new MAP Sensor adjuster, and a new setup that will add voltage to the blue wire on both O2 sensors. I can control both the voltage (in millivolts) and the pulse length/time. At the moment and testing it since Sunday Night I have new gas mileage. 25miles per gallon city. 81.3 miles traveled and 3.25gallons added
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06-03-2008, 11:25 PM	#113
BudRacing Molon Labe Age: 23 Join Date: Aug 2004 Posts: 4,905 Location: Statesboro, Ga User is: OffLine	Re: HHO injection on 2002 Blazer Xtreme 4.3L Results Not bad at all. I just checked my city mileage today and clocked 18. When you get this all sorted out as a dependable setup are you planning on doing a condensed write-up?
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06-04-2008, 07:34 AM	#114
rtsurfer __/\_____\O/___ ahh shark Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 189 Location: User is: OffLine	Re: HHO injection on 2002 Blazer Xtreme 4.3L Results Yes of course. I have been working on htat now. But still a long way to go. freewebs.com/hhosurfer
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06-04-2008, 11:33 PM	#115
burgh Registered User Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 3 Location: User is: OffLine	Re: HHO injection on 2002 Blazer Xtreme 4.3L Results Quote: Originally Posted by rtsurfer you can buy them premade buy they guy I got the design from. This guy designed it made it simple and will even build one for you. http://youtube.com/watch?v=CxPQdrfSy...x=0&playnext=1 his website is http://www.smacksboosters.110mb.com/ His design is much better then mine. But I want to learn about alternative fuels. Stan Meters (RIP) developed the system years ago but was killed for what he knows. You can watch how he made it, why and how it all works. http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-8355517779975365309&q=stanley+meyers+duration%3Alo ng&total=16&start=0&num=10&so=0&type=search&plinde x=0&hl=en Please stop spreading this story. Stan Meyers was not 'killed by some mysterious outfit for his knowledge' You are referring to Stan Meyers who died of an aneurysm. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stanley...ater_fuel_cell As for the rest of this, these systems have been disproven time and time again. NO independent testing lab has EVER found any of them to increase mileage or performance. Everytime this magic gas mileage improvement gadgetry is put on a dyno it fails. http://www.popularmechanics.com/auto...s/1802932.html The power required to disassociate water into hydrogen and oxygen (or make http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oxyhydrogen / Brown's Gas) and then reintroduce the hydrogen into the engine far exceeds any power or efficiency gained. Any gains would violate the First Rule of Thermo. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_l...thermodynamics If ANY of these systems worked AT ALL, the inventors would be overnight billionaires. The auto industry spends billions for fractional MPG increases to meet CAFE standards and they would be ALL OVER something like this if it worked in the slightest. It's nice to be enthusiastic about doing things with your truck, and everyone wants better mileage, but this isn't it. Last edited by burgh : 06-04-2008 at 11:35 PM.
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06-05-2008, 08:15 AM	#116
rtsurfer __/\_____\O/___ ahh shark Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 189 Location: User is: OffLine	Re: HHO injection on 2002 Blazer Xtreme 4.3L Results Again this is my own personal test. 25miles per gallon city. 81.3 miles traveled and 3.25gallons added 25miles per gallon. http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/compx...Field=Findacar
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06-05-2008, 05:13 PM	#117
zarbon8 Registered User Age: 24 Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 68 Location: Grand Rapids, MI User is: OffLine	Re: HHO injection on 2002 Blazer Xtreme 4.3L Results The use of the sparkplug extender makes no sense to me. You have less o2 in the exhaust so you move the sensor out of the line of gas and that makes it sense more?!?!?!?!?!!?!?!?!?!?!?
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06-06-2008, 07:04 AM	#118
TokoDragon ZR2 mini-truckin' Age: 21 Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 1,091 Location: Idaho User is: OffLine	Re: HHO injection on 2002 Blazer Xtreme 4.3L Results this sounds like what this guy did to a 68 mustang we had in the auto tech shop, he was going to college in some kind of hydrogen career field or something and made it there. He said he had it measured out so that whenever he filled his gas tank he filled the water tank in the back too. the car was still running, and didn't blow up, never heard if he got any improvement at all, but the water had to be going somewhere, and they make water injectors that spray a fine mist into the engine to improve efficency so if done right can get a little benefit just from a vapor injector I heard on thenews they were trying to pass a law making it illegal to sell a car that has only one fuel source, such as gasoline. So if passed new cars will have to be able to run on more than one fuel source, like can run on gasoline or ethonal, not sure how hydrogen cars would work, guess they would have to have a electric powered motor to or something. nice research! Last edited by TokoDragon : 06-06-2008 at 07:08 AM.
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06-13-2008, 01:21 AM	#119
HoyaXC07 Spick-10 Xtreme Age: 21 Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 2,433 Location: Acworth, GA User is: OffLine	Re: HHO injection on 2002 Blazer Xtreme 4.3L Results Quote: Originally Posted by burgh Please stop spreading this story. Stan Meyers was not 'killed by some mysterious outfit for his knowledge' You are referring to Stan Meyers who died of an aneurysm. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stanley...ater_fuel_cell As for the rest of this, these systems have been disproven time and time again. NO independent testing lab has EVER found any of them to increase mileage or performance. Everytime this magic gas mileage improvement gadgetry is put on a dyno it fails. http://www.popularmechanics.com/auto...s/1802932.html The power required to disassociate water into hydrogen and oxygen (or make http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oxyhydrogen / Brown's Gas) and then reintroduce the hydrogen into the engine far exceeds any power or efficiency gained. Any gains would violate the First Rule of Thermo. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_l...thermodynamics If ANY of these systems worked AT ALL, the inventors would be overnight billionaires. The auto industry spends billions for fractional MPG increases to meet CAFE standards and they would be ALL OVER something like this if it worked in the slightest. It's nice to be enthusiastic about doing things with your truck, and everyone wants better mileage, but this isn't it. Just read this whole thread, it deserves a bump. There is a small homegrown company in my town that installs these kits for people on their cars. I have their information if you guys want it, I'm sure they know a lot. I understand how introducing HHO to your engine can increase power and mileage, you are adding ANOTHER source of fuel to the combustion process, it is a product of some of the most basic rules and reactions in chemistry. I'm not Chemist but it doesnt take one to see how this works. Correct me if I am wrong but doesnt this follow the same laws of NO2 and Methonal injection? I'd like to try this myself, it seems easy enough. Of course I'll have to look into it some more. Great thread
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06-13-2008, 02:00 AM	#120
HoyaXC07 Spick-10 Xtreme Age: 21 Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 2,433 Location: Acworth, GA User is: OffLine	Re: HHO injection on 2002 Blazer Xtreme 4.3L Results Another thing, in theory you could produce enough HH0) to power the motor with out gasoline. How much HH) would this take? I'm thinking the CFM of a normal stock engine. Lets say you turned the gastank into one huge bubbler, or replaced it with one that size, it is feasible that you could run the truck on just HHO? I'm sure this would have to be a pretty high psi system. Btw, where DJDoug with his infinite wisdom? I'm sure he would want to chime in on this.
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06-13-2008, 02:11 PM	#121
BudRacing Molon Labe Age: 23 Join Date: Aug 2004 Posts: 4,905 Location: Statesboro, Ga User is: OffLine	Re: HHO injection on 2002 Blazer Xtreme 4.3L Results Quote: Originally Posted by HoyaXC07 Just read this whole thread, it deserves a bump. There is a small homegrown company in my town that installs these kits for people on their cars. I have their information if you guys want it, I'm sure they know a lot. I understand how introducing HHO to your engine can increase power and mileage, you are adding ANOTHER source of fuel to the combustion process, it is a product of some of the most basic rules and reactions in chemistry. I'm not Chemist but it doesnt take one to see how this works. Correct me if I am wrong but doesnt this follow the same laws of NO2 and Methonal injection? I'd like to try this myself, it seems easy enough. Of course I'll have to look into it some more. Great thread On dyno tests, this has not proven to gain power. When correctly implemented it is a dilution of gasoline to air which is displaced by HHO. This is also COMPLETELY different from NO2. All nitrous does is supercool the intake charge to condense the oxygen, which in turn, increases fuel to the mix which = more power. Quote: Originally Posted by HoyaXC07 Another thing, in theory you could produce enough HH0) to power the motor with out gasoline. How much HH) would this take? I'm thinking the CFM of a normal stock engine. Lets say you turned the gastank into one huge bubbler, or replaced it with one that size, it is feasible that you could run the truck on just HHO? I'm sure this would have to be a pretty high psi system. Btw, where DJDoug with his infinite wisdom? I'm sure he would want to chime in on this. I doubt you could start the engine with a self-sustaining HHO generator only. After sitting for a period of time, the HHO in the system would diminish and generation would have to take place. For a vehicle that is entirely run on HHO, that would take a lot more amperage than is readily available in a standard car battery. A hybrid would work well in this case, similar in concept to a diesel run on SVO. Start up on diesel, once warm, switch to SVO. Last edited by BudRacing : 06-13-2008 at 02:13 PM.
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06-13-2008, 02:23 PM	#122
Yogi Registered (Ab) User Join Date: Feb 2008 Posts: 4,091 Location: League City, TX (Houston) User is: OffLine	Re: HHO injection on 2002 Blazer Xtreme 4.3L Results Quote: Originally Posted by BudRacing On dyno tests, this has not proven to gain power. When correctly implemented it is a dilution of gasoline to air which is displaced by HHO. This is also COMPLETELY different from NO2. All nitrous does is supercool the intake charge to condense the oxygen, which in turn, increases fuel to the mix which = more power......... Not true, Bud! N2O (Not NO2) does cool the intake charge but that is only part of the benefit. The "O" in N2O is Oxygen, and a lot more of it. The N2O provides more Oxygen for each intake stroke which allows more fuel, and more fuel + more Oxygen = more power! Last edited by Yogi : 06-13-2008 at 02:24 PM.
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06-13-2008, 04:47 PM	#123
BudRacing Molon Labe Age: 23 Join Date: Aug 2004 Posts: 4,905 Location: Statesboro, Ga User is: OffLine	Re: HHO injection on 2002 Blazer Xtreme 4.3L Results .. Just when I think I knew what I was talking about. At least I was close.
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06-17-2008, 10:12 PM	#124
rtsurfer __/\_____\O/___ ahh shark Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 189 Location: User is: OffLine	Re: HHO injection on 2002 Blazer Xtreme 4.3L Results Quote: Originally Posted by HoyaXC07 Another thing, in theory you could produce enough HH0) to power the motor with out gasoline. How much HH) would this take? I'm thinking the CFM of a normal stock engine. Lets say you turned the gastank into one huge bubbler, or replaced it with one that size, it is feasible that you could run the truck on just HHO? I'm sure this would have to be a pretty high psi system. Btw, where DJDoug with his infinite wisdom? I'm sure he would want to chime in on this. You can not think of replacing the air (CFM) you are replacing the fuel. I read some where that you need to be 1 liter per horsepower per minute. but i am not sure. I tried to figure it out one time. I came up with 300liters per minute. Using an average of 18miles per gallon. Some more food: Try looking up overunity.com search for bobboyce cell. Try Hydroxy, and workingwatercar under yahoo forums. http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/Hydroxy/ http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/WorkingWatercar/ http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/compx2008f.jsp?year=2002&make=Chevrolet&model=Blaz er%202WD&hiddenField=Findacar yes city will vary but I should never be getting 25mpg in my car. That link shows what my car is and what it should be getting. I have driven my car for over a year the same path and recorded the gas mileage every time. EVRY TIME at fill up. I never go over 18.5mpg Since I installed an efficient unit that uses lower amps to produce higher volume of gas then my mileage went up. My last recording was 25mpg. But on average I have gotten 22.5-23mpg. 25mpg was a high. You can read how iceland is moving to hydrogen. How are they getting it? From water. http://www.news24.com/News24/Technology/News/0,,2-13-443_1356277,00.html Or a Japanese car that is running on water. http://www.news24.com/News24/Technology/News/0,,2-13-443_1356277,00.html Can a car run on water Yes. On demand hydrogen production while you drive takes a lot of energy http://www.kalb.com/index.php/news/article/video-hydrogen-generator-boosts-gas-mileage/8883/ But there are people under yahoo forums who are doing it.
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06-17-2008, 10:18 PM	#125
rtsurfer __/\_____\O/___ ahh shark Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 189 Location: User is: OffLine	Re: HHO injection on 2002 Blazer Xtreme 4.3L Results Quote: Originally Posted by BudRacing On dyno tests, this has not proven to gain power. When correctly implemented it is a dilution of gasoline to air which is displaced by HHO. This is also COMPLETELY different from NO2. All nitrous does is supercool the intake charge to condense the oxygen, which in turn, increases fuel to the mix which = more power. I doubt you could start the engine with a self-sustaining HHO generator only. After sitting for a period of time, the HHO in the system would diminish and generation would have to take place. For a vehicle that is entirely run on HHO, that would take a lot more amperage than is readily available in a standard car battery. A hybrid would work well in this case, similar in concept to a diesel run on SVO. Start up on diesel, once warm, switch to SVO. You know there are systems out there that will make HHO in the house and compress it into tanks. Not sure when they will be available to the public.
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06-18-2008, 05:06 AM	#126
nyc_tek Registered User Join Date: Jun 2008 Posts: 7 Location: User is: OffLine	Re: HHO injection on 2002 Blazer Xtreme 4.3L Results Quote: Originally Posted by rtsurfer You know there are systems out there that will make HHO in the house and compress it into tanks. Not sure when they will be available to the public. Hey RTSURFER nice job! I don't get it why people doubt this new technology,yes it does work,my friend has a 1997 saturn SL1 155k running with an HHO generator @ 57 mpg hwy 43 city......I will post a testing that was done by a news channel in Florida,yes THEY USE a DYNO TEST with great results.
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06-18-2008, 10:36 AM	#127
The Blown Blazer Registered User Join Date: Aug 2004 Posts: 3,113 Location: User is: OffLine	Re: HHO injection on 2002 Blazer Xtreme 4.3L Results Quote: Originally Posted by nyc_tek Hey RTSURFER nice job! I don't get it why people doubt this new technology,yes it does work,my friend has a 1997 saturn SL1 155k running with an HHO generator @ 57 mpg hwy 43 city......I will post a testing that was done by a news channel in Florida,yes THEY USE a DYNO TEST with great results. I would be very happy to see that video by the news. As far as my generator goes, I really don't have the drive to do it right. Every time I get some $$, I owe something here or a bill comes up there. It's sitting until I get the time to do it right.
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06-18-2008, 12:11 PM	#128
*philntx* Build them right....Mod Age: 54 Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 2,115 Location: Plano TX User is: OffLine	Re: HHO injection on 2002 Blazer Xtreme 4.3L Results Quote: Originally Posted by rtsurfer You know there are systems out there that will make HHO in the house and compress it into tanks. Not sure when they will be available to the public. HHO = H2O or Water. What you are using is Hydrogen or H2, not HHO You should contact Jamie at Mythbusters. It seems that you have a miracle product that will save the U.S. economy!
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06-18-2008, 07:50 PM	#129
rtsurfer __/\_____\O/___ ahh shark Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 189 Location: User is: OffLine	Re: HHO injection on 2002 Blazer Xtreme 4.3L Results Quote: Originally Posted by The Blown Blazer I would be very happy to see that video by the news. As far as my generator goes, I really don't have the drive to do it right. Every time I get some $$, I owe something here or a bill comes up there. It's sitting until I get the time to do it right. Yes I have seen that video. They did it on the dyno and got a major increase. They are redoing the test for the next month and will have results in July. They used a doge durango. The police dept. down here is now going to use HHO. http://www.tcpalm.com/news/2008/jun/...may-help-save/
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06-19-2008, 02:49 PM	#130
nyc_tek Registered User Join Date: Jun 2008 Posts: 7 Location: User is: OffLine	Re: HHO injection on 2002 Blazer Xtreme 4.3L Results Quote: Originally Posted by philntx HHO = H2O or Water. What you are using is Hydrogen or H2, not HHO You should contact Jamie at Mythbusters. It seems that you have a miracle product that will save the U.S. economy! Really? http://www.hydrogenht.com/index.html HFI technology is installed as an add-on to diesel and gasoline engines where it significantly reduces a wide variety of emissions (CO, PM, HC, CO2 and NOx) while simultaneously reducing fuel consumption by a minimum of 10%. HFI units are being used by over 150 fleets of long-haul transport trucks, ambulances, municipal buses and other heavy equipment, earning HFI the dominant position as the world's most widely-used on-board electrolysers. The technology is based on electrolysis and the units split water, on-board the vehicle, then vent the hydrogen and oxygen directly into the air intake of the engine. Adding hydrogen significantly improves the efficiency of combustion, in the engine, with significant financial and environmental benefits. If you say so "Miracle product" than argue with the Canadian government "Environmental Technology Verification" (ETV) gave Hydrogen Hybrid Technologies Inc. (HHT) the approval of this technology..Hydrogen generators are real it's the way of the future. http://www.etvcanada.com/overview.asp HHT announced that it has assumed complete responsibility for the ongoing testing of Hydrogen Fuel Injection (HFI) by one of the largest suppliers of vehicles to the U.S. armed forces. As part of its license agreement with Canadian Hydrogen Energy Company (CHEC), HHT will be responsible for all test monitoring and market development within the important military marketplace. The testing has been taking place in Texas and at the U.S. Army testing facilities at Yuma, Arizona, for over nine months http://www.tradingmarkets.com/.site/...20News/623327/ PS:I am not here to promote any product or company,i just want to inform the public HYDROGEN technology is REAL.
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06-19-2008, 03:12 PM	#131
nyc_tek Registered User Join Date: Jun 2008 Posts: 7 Location: User is: OffLine	Re: HHO injection on 2002 Blazer Xtreme 4.3L Results OK here's more video goodies about the so call "miracle fuel" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genepax Genepax (株式会社ジェネパックス, Kabushiki-kaisha Jenepakkusu?) is a Japanese corporation that claims to have created a car which can run on nothing but water.[1] According to the company, a proprietary unit, a type of membrane electrode assembly (MEA), breaks water apart into hydrogen and oxygen using a chemical reaction, which provides fuel for a hydrogen fuel cell to run the car.[2] http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21134540...43533#25243533 http://www.reuters.com/news/video?videoId=84561
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06-19-2008, 07:43 PM	#132
Raylo Registered User Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 186 Location: User is: OffLine	Re: HHO injection on 2002 Blazer Xtreme 4.3L Results No offense guys but this is just a scam. Simple chemistry and physics constraints mean you can't get more energy out of this than it takes to split the H2 out. Electrolysis is a great way to make O2 (with H2 as an unwanted byproduct) on nuclear submarines where there is plenty of excess electrical generation capacity and no other source of O2. But you're not gonna get a significant quantity of H2 from a 100 amp alternator..... and it will be less than the gasoline used to produce it.
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06-19-2008, 08:43 PM	#133
nyc_tek Registered User Join Date: Jun 2008 Posts: 7 Location: User is: OffLine	Re: HHO injection on 2002 Blazer Xtreme 4.3L Results So i guess the Canadian government & US arm forces must be very stupid to fall for this "scam"right?Genepax MADE IN JAPAN must be another SCAM right? Last edited by nyc_tek : 06-19-2008 at 08:45 PM.
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06-19-2008, 10:12 PM	#134
rtsurfer __/\_____\O/___ ahh shark Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 189 Location: User is: OffLine	Re: HHO injection on 2002 Blazer Xtreme 4.3L Results And I guess my gas increase is not enough? huh! From average 18mpg to average 23mpg city.
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06-19-2008, 10:28 PM	#135
Raylo Registered User Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 186 Location: User is: OffLine	Re: HHO injection on 2002 Blazer Xtreme 4.3L Results Tek, you are free to believe what you choose. Me? I'll wait until I see peer reviewed scientific evidence that explains how some magic membrane, or mysterious pulse frequency overcomes the laws of physics to not require many kilowatts of power to get meaningful H2 production rates from hydrolysis of water. In the interim I will not be holding my breath nor will I be impressed by little toy scamware cars driving around with who knows what under their skin. And surfer, good for you. I hope to soon see you (or whoever sold that magic technology to you) on the cover of lifestyles of the rich and famous. Seriously, I wish you well. And if it works for you, that's all that's important, right? And please don't forget your S10 compadres when you strike it rich.
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