HHO injection on 2002 Blazer Xtreme 4.3L Results

[BudRacing]

The o2 sensor still needs to play a role here, ideally it just needs to recognize that the readings are going to be different with HHO and adjust fuel accordingly.

[rtsurfer]

I will have new gas mileage tonight. But so far 115 for the first quarter tank. Now at 148 just over a quater tank. Not at half yet. That should make it to 166-170miles when I fill up again.

But so far things look a little better.

all city drive.

[The Blown Blazer]

I recently got mine back up and running. Unfortunately insurance and car payments hit and I didn't have the $ to fill it up, especially with gas at $3.69.

None the less, I've never been able to get over 300 miles on a tank (even with the low fuel light blazing and the needle deep into the orange) and today I was at 318.2 miles before the low fuel light went on, and I threw 20 bucks in. With a "worst case" guess, it would have taken 15 gallons to bring it back to full, indicating about ~21.2mpg. The most I've ever put in was 14.8 gallons, even on a very very low tank, so a 15 gallon fill-up is definitely worst case.

[BudRacing]

Weird. What size tank do you have? I always get over 300 miles per tank. It's kinda mediocre for me actually. I usually get 320+. But IIRC the most I've ever put in the tank was 18 gallons. I just about drained that one.

[rtsurfer]

Ok you have to check this out. I just built it today cost around $30. Took about 1.5hours to get it figuered out but everything work perfect. (so far)


right now I have it dialed in at 22.6mv will see the results soon

My last one would not come over .003mv not sure why but just could not get it to work better.

[rtsurfer]

I could not get accurate MPG readings Wednesday.

I forgot when I filled up (Friday night) I had resistors in and I know that was around 16mpg (pulled them out Sunday) after a 43mile drive. Then no EFIE on Monday and I still managed to pull a 20mpg. But again I can not be sure until this Friday Afternoon.
J

[FLcruising]

How does this work? Does it piggyback onto the O2 signal, or is there a bypass somewhere?

[rtsurfer]

piggyback the o2 signal. you got it.

[FLcruising]

Results?

[rtsurfer]

still working on it. The transformer I have on the circuit is not acting correctly. Plus the o2 sensor on these 4.3l do not act the same on other cars (from what I have learned)

Sorry for the delay I am trying.

[FLcruising]

What do you mean? They produce the same sine wave as every other vehicle I've seen.
I've been wondering how you can get your circuit timed to the same frequency, is that what you're having problems with? Kinda like hooking a generator to a house with the power already working, the 60hz frequency would not be anymore.

[The Blown Blazer]

Quote: Originally Posted by BudRacing

Weird. What size tank do you have? I always get over 300 miles per tank. It's kinda mediocre for me actually. I usually get 320+. But IIRC the most I've ever put in the tank was 18 gallons. I just about drained that one.

I've never put in over 15 gallons, so i can only assume I have a 15 or 16 gallon tank. Remember, the one in your Blazer is much bigger.. I think. LOL


Update on mine- I have 2 cells in one container, one 3"x3" 8 plate system and one 2"x2.5" 7 plate system. I haven't had the $ to refill at all, so no mileage readings yet. I have it running over a 30amp fuse with good success, but it keeps heating up badly. I think I'll lower the electrolyte level (1/4 tsp per gallon) to keep it all cool and happy.

I am going to work on putting the smaller cell in another container and T-ing the gas line into the existing one, also in attempt to keep everything cooler.

Lets keep bumping this thread with updates!

[BudRacing]

^^ I guess I was going by your user name rather than your sig. Mine's rated at 16, but it has nearly 5 gallons in reserve (past low fuel light). I usually top it off with about 2 gallons after the pump clicks off.

[The Blown Blazer]

Quote: Originally Posted by BudRacing

^^ I guess I was going by your user name rather than your sig. Mine's rated at 16, but it has nearly 5 gallons in reserve (past low fuel light). I usually top it off with about 2 gallons after the pump clicks off.

2 more gallons? dang. I just let the pump stop itself so I always get a consistant reading on what "full" is.

[rtsurfer]

Quote: Originally Posted by FLcruising

What do you mean? They produce the same sine wave as every other vehicle I've seen.
I've been wondering how you can get your circuit timed to the same frequency, is that what you're having problems with? Kinda like hooking a generator to a house with the power already working, the 60hz frequency would not be anymore.

No the transformer in the circuit does not see voltage to the o2 sensor. it has to be a 1:1:1 isolation tansformer. Everything I had so far has not been that. It seems nobody carried it. I had to dig deep. But found one that may work. Will keep posted on it when I get it in.

[rtsurfer]

the o2 sensor should have a signal wir that sends voltage back to the ECu. What Ihave found the ECU sends a signal to the o2sensor on the blue wire. THe white wire seems like it sends a signal back to the ecu. but the voltage is not correct. So while I am waiting for the "T" I will be digging into this some more.

[Daveman2]

Quote: Originally Posted by The Blown Blazer

2 more gallons? dang. I just let the pump stop itself so I always get a consistant reading on what "full" is.

That's the only way to get consistent readings, and also alot safer/smarter

[rtsurfer]

Quote: Originally Posted by Daveman2

That's the only way to get consistent readings, and also alot safer/smarter

There is no way to get consistent readings.

Each gas pump, pumps at different rates. THe faster the pump the sooner it will cut off. THey shut off on back pressure caused by the gas in your fuel tank.

Slower pumps do not get as much kick back or back pressure so they will get more gas in before they shut off.


The only way I get readings is by filling it up and then add more until it shuts off every .25cents.

About!!!

Again There is no way to get consistent readings.

To each his own I guess.

[The Blown Blazer]

I just put the pump on the slowest setting and I always use the same one... pump number 1 at Sunoco.

[cavymeister]

I've been thinking of doing this myself on my Yota. One way I was going to combat the freezing aspect of it is to run the coolant to the contaner walls. Any idea of how that would affect the reaction if at all?

I have a BUNCH of 1.25" bullet resistant acrylic that I was plannin on using for my container and drilling several 5/8" holes through the length of the acrylic to run coolant through to it to keep it warm durring the winter.

[BudRacing]

So what do you do when the coolant cools overnight? It'll freeze up then. There's really no easy way other than a plug-in heater to keep it from freezing from what I see. Easiest thing to do would be to keep it inside overnight and have the lines be more plug-n-play friendly. It's just really inconvenient for cold climates.

[philntx]

At idle, how many CFM of air do you think your engine is pulling?

This system is making 700-1000 mililiters in 60 seconds. That's tiny compared to the amount of air actually being drawn into the engine.

If you'd move your air filter out of your engine compartment (right now it's sucking hot air from the radiator) When the IAT's start hitting around 200-210, the PCM will start pulling the timing back, reducing your power.

How have your driving habits changed since you installed the system? Do you pay more attention to accelleration, turning off the engine at long stoplights.

Have you completed any testing where you drive fill it up, drive it for 50 miles or so and refill it, then disconnect the device, fill it up again and repeat the test in the exact mode of driving?

Just curious.

If it were truely as easy and cheap as you report, why haven't any manufacturers picked up on this?

[BudRacing]

Because it will freeze if left unattended during winter. It's a hard sell to those who wouldn't want to learn new habits.

[rat]

Quote: Originally Posted by BudRacing

Because it will freeze if left unattended during winter. It's a hard sell to those who wouldn't want to learn new habits.

You do realise water is a byproduct of the combustion process? If this actualy worked and you wanted water you could condense it out of the exhaust stream rather easily.

[BudRacing]

Yes, I do realize that. But how does that stop the tank from freezing overnight?

[rat]

Drain the water on shut down. Re-fill on the drive cycle.

[BudRacing]

At what rate? And what about the electrolyte mixture? The water used is also very finicky. Not every distilled water works well. I've read some have only had luck with certain brands.

[rat]

I am sure the automakers could figure it out, they have billions to spend on developing hydrogen fuel cell vehicles, and hybrid technology.

[BudRacing]

They could very well be working the technology right now. But until they get it right, it'll be under wraps. I have faith in the developers, but not so much in the corporations that pay them.

[cavymeister]

Quote: Originally Posted by BudRacing

So what do you do when the coolant cools overnight? It'll freeze up then. There's really no easy way other than a plug-in heater to keep it from freezing from what I see. Easiest thing to do would be to keep it inside overnight and have the lines be more plug-n-play friendly. It's just really inconvenient for cold climates.

Well, my thoughts were that if it does freeze, then when I start up the truck the water would melt after a couple minutes. WOuld that make that much of a difference, or is it real tough on the system. I was thinking that it just wouldn't produce any HHO until it melted. My concern is that how bad is it to get the water hot what making hydrogen?

[BudRacing]

When water freezes it expands and can crack the PVC container it's in. Also if you tried just getting it to melt when you start the car, it'll be running unsafely lean with the current o2 sensor circuit board in it until the ice finally melts. You'd be lucky to go through one freezing and melting process without it causing problems--let alone multiple processes.

[The Blown Blazer]

Quote: Originally Posted by philntx

At idle, how many CFM of air do you think your engine is pulling?

This system is making 700-1000 mililiters in 60 seconds. That's tiny compared to the amount of air actually being drawn into the engine.

If you'd move your air filter out of your engine compartment (right now it's sucking hot air from the radiator) When the IAT's start hitting around 200-210, the PCM will start pulling the timing back, reducing your power.

How have your driving habits changed since you installed the system? Do you pay more attention to accelleration, turning off the engine at long stoplights.

Have you completed any testing where you drive fill it up, drive it for 50 miles or so and refill it, then disconnect the device, fill it up again and repeat the test in the exact mode of driving?

Just curious.

If it were truely as easy and cheap as you report, why haven't any manufacturers picked up on this?

I'll be doing this testing as soon as I get my next pay check. School just ended and I can work full time now, so money will be a plenty. I'll report back with results

[BudRacing]

They did this test for the fuel for water unit. They drove a certain distance away (the further the better), turned around and came right back to the same pump they left from to top it off again and recorded the results.

[The Blown Blazer]

Quote: Originally Posted by BudRacing

They did this test for the fuel for water unit. They drove a certain distance away (the further the better), turned around and came right back to the same pump they left from to top it off again and recorded the results.

Thats exactly what I'll be doing. I've routed out my drive, its all highway with no stops so it'll be consistant speed and time between both runs.

[BudRacing]

So have you done this run before without the HHO or will you do both with/without back to back?

[The Blown Blazer]

Quote: Originally Posted by BudRacing

So have you done this run before without the HHO or will you do both with/without back to back?

I'll fill up at a gas station right off the highway, no stops or lights between the station and the highway. I'll fill up the tank at the low speed on the pump at a certain pump. I'll drive the route, with no stops at a consistant speed, with the generator off for a baseline. Then I'll refill the tank with the pump on low at the same gas pump, then re-run the route at the same speed. I'll calculate the mpg for the run with the generator on and see if its better or worse.

[Bill Wheats]

Quote: Originally Posted by BudRacing

When water freezes it expands and can crack the PVC container it's in. Also if you tried just getting it to melt when you start the car, it'll be running unsafely lean with the current o2 sensor circuit board in it until the ice finally melts. You'd be lucky to go through one freezing and melting process without it causing problems--let alone multiple processes.

Look into PEX.
http://www.ppfahome.org/pex/faqpex.html
It's replacing copper plumbing and I think you can get it in 2" diam. Probably 16" would do. When the water freezes the PIX expands instead of breaking.
It takes a special tool to expand it and put the caps on. The caps come in PIX and Brass so you should be able to make up a fitting at the top for your tubes. If I'm right it is approved up to 200`.
You can get it at Homedepot and probably use their expander right there at the store. Or if you know a plumber, ask him. They often just throw out small pieces like that.
The brass fitting do cost a couple of bucks...
You can always place it in a larger tank and stuff fiberglass insulation around the PEX.

Good luck

[Bill Wheats]

Ooops! Double post

[rtsurfer]

Quote: Originally Posted by cavymeister

I've been thinking of doing this myself on my Yota. One way I was going to combat the freezing aspect of it is to run the coolant to the contaner walls. Any idea of how that would affect the reaction if at all?

I have a BUNCH of 1.25" bullet resistant acrylic that I was plannin on using for my container and drilling several 5/8" holes through the length of the acrylic to run coolant through to it to keep it warm durring the winter.

If you do a search for the electrolyte mix. They add acetone to the water to prevent freezing.
You can not use the PVC on you water heater in the car. It get to 190+ degrees in. PVC can not handle it. Plus any other metal you add to you cell (booster) will change your reaction. Try a stainless steel pipe and you have another problem.
You are using DC current to make hydrogen. What is to stop the reaction in the engine if you pass your hot water through it? That water will react similar to the bath. Except it is internal that can light at anytime.
I would search for a bath in freezing conditions

[Bill Wheats]

I don't believe PEX is PVC???

[Yogi]

Cross linked polyethylene.

[rtsurfer]

I have made several mistakes this week. One I cross wired the o2 sensors and kept pulling a SES light. Both times it was blinking. Yikes

That was on Monday and Tuesday. Tuesday afternoon I found what I had done and corrected it at work.

I reset the computer 4x's in 3days.

So at the half a tank mark I got 190.2 miles. Not bad.

Also I change the electrolyte in the booster a little.

Distilled vinegar, distilled water and baking soda. Yes I know it causes a reaction and after the reaction was over I got was 1,100 ml per minute @25amps. A little high but ok.

I have to do one more thing and I will get mpg for Monday.

Will keep you posted.

[BudRacing]

Cool. How does acetone affect hydrogen production?--if you know. I would think it would dilute the solution a little and possibly hinder the production volume significantly.

[rtsurfer]

Well I hate to say it I set off another SES light this morning. I know what I did and fixed it. So 17miles to work are going to have some effect on the mpg. I will find out on Tuesday. Sorry

acetone I have heard of guys trying it but not sure of the results.

[onecrazynoma]

yeah i messed around with hho stuff untill a 20oz waterbottle blewup in my face. ****ing explosive shit. was deaf for about 3mins.

[rtsurfer]

Ok I still set off 2 SES lights. I am still working on the bugs.

But still my first shot was 21.2mpg and 20.58mpg.

Before I was pulling the fuse to reset the SES lights. But I went and bought the code reader and now I can check to find out what the codes are and reset them.

Still playing with things. Will keep posted

[rtsurfer]

Quote: Originally Posted by rtsurfer

Ok I still set off 2 SES lights. I am still working on the bugs.

But still my first shot was 21.2mpg and 20.58mpg.

Before I was pulling the fuse to reset the SES lights. But I went and bought the code reader and now I can check to find out what the codes are and reset them.

Still playing with things. Will keep posted

Well I have been messing with a few things at once now that I have the code reader.

SO far I have just over 95miles since I last filled up. I should be at 115miles when I get home tonight I will top off then. But at 95miles I am still way over 3/4 tank of gas. SO things are looking very good.

What I have done was mess with the MAF and MAP but again still playing with it so will keep you posting. And will give more detail of what has been going on.

THings look very good.

[rtsurfer]

Much better 23.22mpg

I have been messing with the MAP and MAF sensor.

I also have to replace another relay. Not sure why these go bad in just a few weeks. @ $5 each.

5.025 gallons and 116.7miles for the first 1/4 tank.

On the MAF sensor I cut the black (ground wire) and spliced in a 5ohm resistor it brought the volts on the MAF up on the signal wire.

One the MAP sensor I am using a 20k Potentiometer the is attached to the signal wire output (not the 5v input) that is on hte center point of the 20k Pot. On one leg of the pot goes to ground.

When the key is turned on the ECU looks for a 4.85v (checks it) if it is there everything is good. Once the car is started I turn the 20k pot half way an it drains a few milvolt off the signal wire. Just enough to tell the comupter there is less load on the engine and that cuts back on the fuel.

[rat]

Quote: Originally Posted by rtsurfer

Much better 23.22mpg

I have been messing with the MAP and MAF sensor.

I also have to replace another relay. Not sure why these go bad in just a few weeks. @ $5 each.

5.025 gallons and 116.7miles for the first 1/4 tank.

On the MAF sensor I cut the black (ground wire) and spliced in a 5ohm resistor it brought the volts on the MAF up on the signal wire.

One the MAP sensor I am using a 20k Potentiometer the is attached to the signal wire output (not the 5v input) that is on hte center point of the 20k Pot. On one leg of the pot goes to ground.

When the key is turned on the ECU looks for a 4.85v (checks it) if it is there everything is good. Once the car is started I turn the 20k pot half way an it drains a few milvolt off the signal wire. Just enough to tell the comupter there is less load on the engine and that cuts back on the fuel.

You know the maf sensor sends a frequency not a voltage depending on flow right? Higher flow, higher frequency.

Also, trying to 'trick' the computer into thinking there is less air entering the engine is not a good idea at all. You may also be interested in knowing that the computer calculates the engine torque output based on maf readings. Engine torque is then used to calculate the line pressure in the trans. When it makes more torque than it thinks it commands lower line pressure causing slip. It would be a good way to burn up a transmission.

By 'tricking' the map sensor you will tend to get higher ignition advance. Watch out for knocking/pinging. This can also cause you to run lean.

[BudRacing]

^^ Therein lies the problem.