HHO injection on 2002 Blazer Xtreme 4.3L Results

[rtsurfer]

First I want to say I am no genius on HHO and ways to produce it. This is my own experience using electrolyses in a 2002 Blazer Xtreme 4.3 liter automatic. Like many I have always wanted to know if it works. So finally I tried it. I have been keeping track of my gas mileage for over the past year and I can tell you that city driving has not gone over 18.5mpg on my best day. On average it has been 18mpg. I travel 36miles a day going back and forth to work. (18miles each way)
At the moment using HHO my recording have been 20.64mpg for the first week and 20.4mpg for the second week. Again this is city driving not highway.

What is HHO and a booster:
A booster is Electrolyses and the use of electricity to separate the H2O (water) into it’s components Hydrogen(x2) and oxygen. Using 9 stainless steel plates spaced .08" apart. Then connecting them to a current through wires.

About Hydrogen:
This is very dangerous since Hydrogen does not need oxygen to explode. It is 3x’s more explosive then gasoline. Therefore going on a HHO Booster in a car without and precautions is at your own risk.

My system:


My Results:

SO far my system has only produced a best of 500ml of HHO in 45seconds.
The first week I connected to HHO booster to the vacuum line on the driver’s side of the engine. I believe it is the vacuum line for the evaporation system in the gas tank. I put a vacuum "T" in the hose and sent the line to a bubbler.
The bubbler is a flash back arrestor and filter for the HHO gas you produce in the HHO Booster. I also have 2 one way vacuum valves after the bubbler and a filter. I was having an extreme problem with vacuum in the HHO booster and it was collapsing the lid. So after the first week of testing I moved the line into the intake using a metal tube. (Gas line tube) I then clamped it in place to keep from loosing it into the engine.

I have not had the system running for an entire week yet. I keep blowing fuses and burnt up a relay. I also once forgot to turn it on.

This entire thing is not easy to keep going. If your mix electorlyte is not right it will draw way to many amps and get very hot. The key is to keep it under 20amp. My goal is 15amps. This is done by adding baking soda/water solution to distilled water. (no tap water) watching when the meter draws 5amps and stop. When the unit heats up it will be 3X’s the starting amps. FYI you go over you can dilute it.

Anything over 15amps is a waiste of energy in one system. If you can produce 500ml @15amps in 90seconds increaseing the amps to 20 may see 520ml in 90sec. It may be better to create a new system or second system that will run another 500ml in 90seconds and run them together.
THis way you can turn one or both on at anytime.

Distilled water. I have found so far Zephyrhills has the best distilled water out there. Using another brand will only turn the solution brown and dirty. A lot of other HHO users have been using sodium hydroxide but I Have not been able to get it that easily. You can order it on line but I just have not gotten around to do it yet. This is suppose to be much better then baking soda. With better results.

Another problem I was having is when you introduce HHO into the engine the gas is burned more cleanly therefore there will be less CO2 in the exhaust. So the O2 sensors read low CO2 and tells the ECU to add more gas to fix the problem. The O2 sensors can not tell you are adding an alternative fuel like HHO so they try to correct the problem. There are a few ways to correct this. One way is a custom tune. But if your HHO booster is off then the tune will be no good and even very bad for the engine. Running lean. You can add an EFIE (Electronic Fuel Injection Enhancer) that will tell the computer false reading but so far the best way I have found to do this is by pulling the O2 sensors out of the direct exhaust stream by buying non fouler plugs at the local Auto Parts in the Help section. part number 42006. Drill out the center using a .50" drill. You would need to do this on all 3 sensors. I choose this because they where a little long then the standard non-fouler. Some have used 2 non-foulers back to back,I tiref it But I have been throwing O2sensor error for low heat. P0135. I have not had a problem Using only one so far for 2 days and have not had one SES light. But it still pulls the sensor out of the exhaust stream enough to trick the computer just a bit so the HHO can work better.

THis is where I am at now. You should read http://www.panaceauniversity.org/Chapter10.pdf Allot of good information in it. Including a system made cheap enough and can generate 1000ml in 60seconds. THis is my next step.

[BudRacing]

I'm still a little lost about how you remedied your sensor problem. Are you just saying you pulled your exhaust sensors and plugged the holes?

[BudRacing]

I'm also curious as to whether these add to the power curve. I haven't seen one person mention performance gains. Personally, I wouldn't be doing this for performance, but for curiosity's sake would be interested.

[rtsurfer]

Yes you remove the O2 sensor screw in the spark plug non-fouler and then screw back in the O2 sensor. They are just omved out of the direct line of the exhaust.

As far as performance http://www.hydrogen-boost.com/Acceleration_Tests.html

It takes allot of energy to run a HHO Booster off of your alterantor and battery. infact you may loosea HP or 2.

But in gains is that fact you will burn more of the gas in your engine. It will be more efficient

This was not done for performance. Just for milage increase.

[BudRacing]

So if the sensors don't read as much CO2, how would moving them out of the direct exhaust flow have them think they're reading more CO2?

[rat]

I think this is BS. But haven't ran the numbers yet. 500ml/45sec isn't very much, and part of that is oxygen. I highly doubt you are getting any 'free' energy here, remember energy can not be created or destroyed.

You have an inefficiency when you convert the water to hydrogen and oxygen. You also have an inefficiency when you convert the mechanical energy from the belt drive system to electricity.

Then you have the inefficiencies when you convert the hydrogen and oxygen back into water.

Oxygen sensors measure Oxygen btw, not Carbon Dioxide.

This is only a 10% improvement. This could be attributed to the o2 sensor spacers, or perhaps a slightly cooler intake charge reducing detonation. Or perhaps they changed from winter gas to summer gas.

[BudRacing]

Well I see it this way.

The electrolyzer uses ~15-20 amps of the excess current in the electrical system similar to that of an electric fan or a stereo amplifier which are commonly on cars' electrical systems.
Seeing as that it's just another electrical accessory, how much would that negatively affect your mileage?

Now, also taking into account that this accessory is producing a highly combustible gas from the stored energy in water and adding it to the incoming air to the engine to fully combust the mixture.

I do have some looming questions such as
~How does this improve efficiency of burn without producing more power or throttle response?

I've been reading all the info I could find on this stuff all day--literally, and have found lots of positive success stories.

[rtsurfer]

You are not moving the O2 sensors out for the CO2. THere is an increased level of Oxygen in the exhaust. (burns clean)

As far as energy can not be created or destroyed

Some one once said light speed is a constant and the earth was flat. But we know now that gravity can slow or even stop light (black Holes) and of course earth is not flat.

We are releasing the Hydrogen in water. Not creating it.

Yes 500ml is not alot. And I am not trying to run the car on water completely just an assist. My next step is create a booster that can generate 1000ml in 60sec.

if you read that pdf file you will also find Stan Meyer who created a water injection system. That engine ran on water only. He used AC and Plasma plugs to ignite the water. His system would have been a $1500 kit for cars on the road today.

He was murdered.

[The Blown Blazer]

I ran 2 HHO generators in my 00 V6 Xtreme with good results. I took them out recently because I'm sick of the water freezing. But I ran a 9 plate system and a 7 plate system with a net MPG gain of about 2 mpg. I've never gotten over 20mpg and my avg tank with the generators on is about 22 mpg. It hovers around 21.9 and 22.5.

The generators work on the idea of enhancing combustion with hydrogen and water injection via the water vapor.

Also, rtsurfer- don't try to explain yourself on here. Most people will shoot the idea down with no actual tests like we've done. You'll probably juts get flamed by arguing about it.

[BudRacing]

That's what kinda mileage I get right now. I wonder what I'd see.

[Yogi]

So, you're injecting the HHO mixture only and no H2O? What is the liquid used in the bubbler tank?
Thanks for taking the time to post this info!

[rtsurfer]

HHO is hydrogen and oxygen. Both go into the bubbler. THe bubbler liquid is distilled water only.

[BudRacing]

I've read you can use anything non carbonated in the bubbler. It's just there to serve as a barrier between any backfire through the tube so it doesn't blow the HHO cell casing to bits.

[rtsurfer]

Don't use anything else. I have had the bubbler drain into the engine (slowly) I have also had it drain back into the HHO Booster. If it were anything else it could have been a bad thing. This new set up I have the level has been the same for a few days.

[BudRacing]

It drained back even with the 1 way valve?

[rtsurfer]

before this design

progress!

[Exporter]

We have a guy that comes into our shop with one of these systems on his diesel. He swears it helps but i just laugh every time i see it. I seriously doubt that the tiny amount that these things produce comes even close to being enough for the motor to even notice. If it were me i wouldn't let hydrogen anywhere near the hot engine compartment. As for the o2 sensors you are seriously mistaken here. O2 sensors work by measuring oxygen in the exhaust. Simply put, too much fuel not enough air means that you are rich and all the oxygen will burn but not all the fuel. Too much air not enough fuel is lean and all the fuel will burn but oxygen will be left over for the sensors to pick up. If the system actually does anything it would create a rich condition because there is extra fuel being added to the motor which the computer doesn't know about. Therefore, rich means that very little or no oxygen will be picked up by the sensors. The computer will compensate by adding less fuel to the cylinders. The computer can compensate for this up to around 25 percent adjustment from the base fuel map. After that it turns the check engine light on for a system rich code. So the o2 sensor spacer deal is useless. The sensors will not be fooled by an alternative fuel. And where can i get these plasma plugs. If they can ignite a completely inert liquid like water imagine what they would do to gasoline!

[rtsurfer]

Numbers Don't Lie!

Nuff Said

[rtsurfer]

Quote: Originally Posted by rtsurfer

You are not moving the O2 sensors out for the CO2. THere is an increased level of Oxygen in the exhaust. (burns clean)

As far as energy can not be created or destroyed

Some one once said light speed is a constant and the earth was flat. But we know now that gravity can slow or even stop light (black Holes) and of course earth is not flat.

We are releasing the Hydrogen in water. Not creating it.

Yes 500ml is not alot. And I am not trying to run the car on water completely just an assist. My next step is create a booster that can generate 1000ml in 60sec.

if you read that pdf file you will also find Stan Meyer who created a water injection system. That engine ran on water only. He used AC and Plasma plugs to ignite the water. His system would have been a $1500 kit for cars on the road today.

He was murdered.

Um I think that is what I said an increase level of oxygen in the exhaust.
ANother image to look at.


The non-fouler helps by taking the O2 sensor out of the exhaust stream to help not measure the increased level of oxygen in the exhaust. Also the O2sensor has a heat sensor so it can tell the computer what the temperature of the exhaust is. By moving the O2 sensor out of the exhaust, the O2 sensor runs cooler. Which is a rich (more gasoline) condition in the exhaust. Lean condition makes the exhaust hotter.

Again I am no genius I am like most a Skeptic and I wanted to know if it works. And well after a year of owning the car and recording the gas mileage every time I fill up. (EVERY TIME) I know what I should be getting.
And Well Numbers don’t lie……
I am still learning and testing. Trial and Errors

[rat]

The o2 sensors are heated.

And do you have numbers to prove that your fuel trims changed after adding this system?

[rtsurfer]

At the moment using HHO my recording have been 20.64mpg for the first week and 20.4mpg for the second week. Again this is city driving not highway

This city driving no highway.

I will know more tonight.

[rtsurfer]

OK new results are in. I had 2 days Thursday Night and Saturday were I threw a SES light. I am not positive on this but I believe once you throw a SES light the computer goes into default mode and stops reading from sensors.

The reason I threw the SES light was because I used 2 non-foulers in the exhaust for each sensor. (6total) So Saturday Morning I drilled the second set out a little more. And On initial start I did not get the SES light. 3 miles down the road it came on. So I end up traveling 40miles before I can look into again.

In the afternoon I pulled one set of non-foulers out leaving just one non-fouler per sensor.
Since Saturday I have not had the SES light come on.

I also re-tested the amp range on the HHO booster once I got home today 20amps (a little high but ok) it pumped 500ml of HHO in 105secs. A little slow.

Gas results 20.2mpg after I filled up.

I believe because of the 2 days (75-80miles) with the SES light may have jeopardized my actual results. So in a few days I will have better information.

My next step is to make a HHO booster to produce 1000ml in 60sec. @15-20amps

[rat]

Quote: Originally Posted by rtsurfer

OK new results are in. I had 2 days Thursday Night and Saturday were I threw a SES light. I am not positive on this but I believe once you throw a SES light the computer goes into default mode and stops reading from sensors.

Depends on the code, but usualy no.

[rtsurfer]

P0153 and P0135 both are o2 sensors failures one is slow O2sensor and the other is low heat on hte O2 sensor
P0153 - Oxygen Sensor Circuit Slow Response
P0135 - Oxygen O2 Sensor Heater Circuit Malfunction

Default mode

[rat]

Also, not sure what "default mode" is.

You could easily tell with a scanner if the fuel trims are still working or not. That is the only thing that would be affected by this.

[Exporter]

It is not an increase of oxygen it is a decrease of oxygen in the exhaust. And o2 sensors are heated but it is not a heat sensor. A chemical reaction takes place inside the sensor when oxygen is introduced. The reaction produces a voltage. The reaction cannot take place correctly without being hot. Thats why the sensors have heaters built in. By isolating the sensors from the exhaust the sensor will see less oxygen. Therefore, the computer will try to take fuel away thinking the mixture is rich. This explains the increased fuel mileage. Try installing the spacers on a car without the hho and you will see the same result. Of course by doing this you are creating a lean mixture and lean mixtures are known to cause catastrophic engine failure.

[Exporter]

The slow response code is either set because of the spacers or because the heater is not working the heater is probably not working because you broke the sensor pulling it out. I see it all the time. If you pull on the wires just a little bit it can break the heating element.

[rtsurfer]

Which explains why my SES light is now off for 3 days.

Without having another 3 days with no SES lights and no blown fuses I can not tell to 99% of the milage.

I am also down on HHO production. Which is why I checked that also. This may explain a decrease in mileage.

But either way I am still up from 18-18.5mpg

[rtsurfer]

My booster is apart to reconfigure the plates a little for better production. A little more care in the preparation of the plates should yield better results.

I recorded again 20.2mpg even at a low 285mlpm (milliliters per minute) or 500ml 105sec

So I am still up from where I was but still not were I want to be.

More to come.

[Yogi]

Congrats on the good results so far. Good luck!

[rtsurfer]

Well I just finished up on the new plate arrangement. I removed all the plates sanded them with 40grit sand paper cross section like an X. Then using a center punch put dents on both sides. This is to get the HHO off the plates faster. Helps HHO to breakaway.

The picture is what it is now. So far I have not had it up to operating temperature yet.

But I clocked in at 700ml in 60seconds @ 16amps. This is much better then the first arrangement. When I was at 500ml in 90 seconds that was at 20amps.

So we are headed in the right direction.

If all goes well I may see 21mpg city driving this week.

[BudRacing]

Progress is always good.

[rtsurfer]

Ok here is how I wired the blazer. I put an amp gauge in hte car so I can see what is going on under the hood. I also have a kill switch for the relay so I can shut it down. Hope this helps

Also I had it running today with the new plate setup and I ran perfect. 18amps all day 38miles driving The volt meter did not move and HHO production was great. ANd the unit stayed cool to the touch.

[BudRacing]

You're running two fuses, one before and one after the relay?

[rtsurfer]

Precautions, IF the relay ever shorts out with the circuit breaker.

[rtsurfer]

Again I have a new recording 20.45. But I had the car running for a while with the new setup. So this is still a little off. I will know better Thursday afternoon.

I know I can hook it up to the vacuum line again and get better results because the HHO production increases. But I keep having leaks under vacuum

[rtsurfer]

Well the news is HHO on a 4.3liter 21.7mpg CITY that is right CITY. My HHO production is 852ml per minute.

So this is living proof this system is working.

I plan on adding a second unit in this week end and maybe see 22-25mpg city.

[xtreme03blzr]

You ever going to just make this as a kit and sell it?

I'm too lazy to figure all this out

Good job on the experiment so far.. nice to see someone playing around with alternative sources of energy specifically in our type of trucks!

[BudRacing]

There are actually kits you can buy for about $200+? I forget the exact number, but it only costs about $60 to make yourself.

rtsurfer, is the o2 sensor setback all you've done to remedy the rich condition? and have you looked at your AFR on a scanner to make sure you're not permanently running lean?

[rtsurfer]

you can buy them premade buy they guy I got the design from. This guy designed it made it simple and will even build one for you. http://youtube.com/watch?v=CxPQdrfSy...x=0&playnext=1

his website is http://www.smacksboosters.110mb.com/

His design is much better then mine. But I want to learn about alternative fuels.

Stan Meters (RIP) developed the system years ago but was killed for what he knows. You can watch how he made it, why and how it all works.
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-8355517779975365309&q=stanley+meyers+duration%3Alo ng&total=16&start=0&num=10&so=0&type=search&plinde x=0&hl=en

[rtsurfer]

Quote: Originally Posted by BudRacing

There are actually kits you can buy for about $200+? I forget the exact number, but it only costs about $60 to make yourself.
rtsurfer, is the o2 sensor setback all you've done to remedy the rich condition? and have you looked at your AFR on a scanner to make sure you're not permanently running lean?

Yes the smacks booster is $220. And you can build them for less.

Yes the only thing was move the 02 sensor back and rebuilt the system to improve performance.

No AFR gauge yet. See Hydrogen is 2.5x’s more energy the gasoline.
Everything I have done is in this forum.

I am not really worried about it since I do not race the engine and I am replacing the fuel with another.


Next is to build a system that will produce 2-4liter per minute. One liter at a time.

[rtsurfer]

I am not sure the AFR will apply here since it may not be able to test for alternative fuels. Or even clean burning fuels

[BudRacing]

I see your point, but can't give an educated response. I guess there really is no way to measure a mixed fuel to air ratio with both fuels coming in.

[rat]

Quote: Originally Posted by rtsurfer

I am not sure the AFR will apply here since it may not be able to test for alternative fuels. Or even clean burning fuels

The stock computer can't tell you the afr either. You would need a wideband. The stock o2's only tell you if you are richer or leaner than the stoichiometric point for gasoline(around 14.7:1).

Different fuels have different stoich points.

[BudRacing]

Quote: Originally Posted by rat

Different fuels have different stoich points.

I believe I read that the hydrogen's points are a lot different than the gasoline's. I wonder how exactly this comes into play when mixed. I'm sure I could figure it out with some research, but I definitely don't feel up for all those calculations. I'm busy studying for business statistics as it is.

[rtsurfer]

Well I just completed my efie and installed it in the blazer. I have been fooling around with different ideas and tried for a day 10ohm resistors inline with the O2 sensors. And I can tell you don’t do that. Gas dropped off like crazy. 16mpg.

So trial and error but his time I may have it. I am still fooling with the design a little to make it easier to assemble. And it does not help when you have to order parts from online. You should be able to get most of the parts from Radio shack but the transformer is hard to get.

Again this is not the final design just something I have been working on. The schematic has been taken from different places on the web and modified to make it cheaper and easier to build. Again I am only testing to see how it works.

[BudRacing]

Patiently awaiting results.

[Daveman2]

This is pretty cool, but IMO for all the work and money, you could have just done mods to make a gasoline engine more efficient.
Props for research and working on alternative fuels though, we have to start somewhere.

[rtsurfer]

It is very little money into it so far. $100 maybe $120. And still have extra stuff left over.

[FLcruising]

Good work there. I've also been studying into this alot, but have yet to have time to try anything. You're making some real world progress there, and must keep us informed on your results. I'm not sure if the HHO is going to give impressive mpg results, but coupled with a vapor injection system it may do better. I have one of these http://www.obddiagnostics.com/, which would make tuning off the O2 sensor much easier to do.