Hayden/Imperial vs Taurus E-Fans: My Review

[Mistersponge]

my question is are the two 86 posts connected, or both going to dif grounds? or connected and somehow grounded also. . .

[rlith]

Quote: Originally Posted by tisyaboytd

ahhhhhhhhh ok i get it now... Im at work and never really looked at it too too good.

so best 2 to use would be thermostat and ac relay right?

For low side use thermostat switch, for high side use the green wire from ac

[rlith]

Quote: Originally Posted by Mistersponge

my question is are the two 86 posts connected, or both going to dif grounds? or connected and somehow grounded also. . .

yes, both 86's go to ground. That's why they're connected together in the diagdram.

[muddpile]

I picked one of these fans up at the wrecker yesterday for $45 Canadian (pretty much inline with what you guys pay, and no shipping this way). When we tested it, it blows like CRAZY, I'm very impressed. It is a three wire setup, so does that mean it's a dual speed? I don't have Air conditioning, and I have a 4.3 TBI, so how would you reccommend me wire this? Still like a dual speed or just use one of the speeds if possible (If it even is a dual speed, I never tested that, I just see 3 wires). I'll be going to the parts store early next week and want to buy all the parts for the swap. Thanks!

[rlith]

Quote: Originally Posted by muddpile

I picked one of these fans up at the wrecker yesterday for $45 Canadian (pretty much inline with what you guys pay, and no shipping this way). When we tested it, it blows like CRAZY, I'm very impressed. It is a three wire setup, so does that mean it's a dual speed? I don't have Air conditioning, and I have a 4.3 TBI, so how would you reccommend me wire this? Still like a dual speed or just use one of the speeds if possible (If it even is a dual speed, I never tested that, I just see 3 wires). I'll be going to the parts store early next week and want to buy all the parts for the swap. Thanks!

Use 2 thermostats instead. That way when the secondary thermostat gets to lets say 225, it kills the lowside and turns on the high..,

BTW, yes, it's a dual speed fan

[muddpile]

Sounds like a good plan Rlith. My only question is, what kind of thermostats are those in the pics? I'm familiar with the ones that thread into the intake or the water neck for an electric fan, but not the style you show there (unless I'm just looking at the picture wrong). Thanks!

[rlith]

Quote: Originally Posted by muddpile

Sounds like a good plan Rlith. My only question is, what kind of thermostats are those in the pics? I'm familiar with the ones that thread into the intake or the water neck for an electric fan, but not the style you show there (unless I'm just looking at the picture wrong). Thanks!

Any thermostat switch will do, but I reccomend the adjustable ones. You will find them in the fan section at pepboys or advance autoparts

[casey53]

What's the recommended wire guage for the dual fan set-up?

[rlith]

Quote: Originally Posted by casey53

What's the recommended wire guage for the dual fan set-up?

12 or thicker

[Magyver]

ok so i have a dual fan setup that i got from the junk yard n i am going to wire it up for dual speed, but the only thing i am not shure of is where i can find th A/C wire.

BTW i have a 89 , 4.3 it that helps thnx

[rlith]

Quote: Originally Posted by Magyver

ok so i have a dual fan setup that i got from the junk yard n i am going to wire it up for dual speed, but the only thing i am not shure of is where i can find th A/C wire.

BTW i have a 89 , 4.3 it that helps thnx

Green wire off the compressor

[tt85_GM]

rlith- How would you set this up for 2 temps?, wiring is no prob for me but I dont see how if the HI setting gets to a set temp (say 225), the fan will come on but when does the Hi setting shut off? what temp? it would have to shut off below 225 because that temp switch is set for 225, is there a type of "shut off setting" with these temp switches? or does the low setting come on once it gets under 225?

[rlith]

Quote: Originally Posted by tt85_GM

rlith- How would you set this up for 2 temps?, wiring is no prob for me but I dont see how if the HI setting gets to a set temp (say 225), the fan will come on but when does the Hi setting shut off? what temp? it would have to shut off below 225 because that temp switch is set for 225, is there a type of "shut off setting" with these temp switches? or does the low setting come on once it gets under 225?

Look at the diagram above. ?Typically you would set the primary stat to come on around 200-210, it5 will turn off on anything below that. The second input cuts power to the low side and turns the fan on constant high. No on the second input I personally use just the AC line, but you can use a seperate thermostat to have the high side come on when temp hits 225 and turns off below that (turning off would activate the low side which would turn off once that stat got below its preset)

[What?]

I did a dual efan for my 2.2L since it will be blown so 2nd fan comes in handy for extra cooling

however on my 4.3L I'll put in 3.8L mustang fan in, and almost 100% fit, now just need bracket and wiring kit, time 2 dump clutch fan

[blazerman]

man i need to move somewhere you can get the taurus fan cheaper around here at the junk yard they want 65-80 for the ford fan and 100-125 for the ls1.i want to do this mod so bad but i aint payin that much for a used fan.

[tt85_GM]

How much of a MPG gain are we talking here?, is this really worth the time to put one in?, what are your outcomes with this e-fan swap?

[rlith]

Quote: Originally Posted by tt85_GM

How much of a MPG gain are we talking here?, is this really worth the time to put one in?, what are your outcomes with this e-fan swap?

I averaged about a 3 mpg gain when I did both my trucks...

[nater006]

You can actually get by with smaller wire than 12 gauge in a lot of cases. There's nothing wrong with using 12 gauge but it isn't necessary in some cases.

Here is a chart. Credit for this goes to Tessco: http://www.tessco.com

Note that if you use longer runs, it's better to use a larger size. The chart shows this also.



For a amp hog Taurus e-fan, a larger gauge is recommended. For Flex-a-lite or Perma-cool, (13 and 9 amps, respectively) a small wire can definitely be used with no adverse effects.

[nater006]

MPG gain and payoff time:

Consider a 1MPG gain, going from 20-21MPG.

20 MPG:
Gas: $3/gallon
Cost per mile: $0.1500/mile

21 MPG:
Gas: $3/gallon
Cost per mile: $0.1429/mile

Difference per mile: $0.0071/mile

If the e-fan costs $100, it will take 14,084 miles to recoup your costs in mileage increases alone. ($100 / $0.0071 = 14,084).

(p.s., I noticed a 1-2MPG increase with mine. 14K miles is nothing.)

[rlith]

Quote: Originally Posted by nater006

MPG gain and payoff time:

Consider a 1MPG gain, going from 20-21MPG.

20 MPG:
Gas: $3/gallon
Cost per mile: $0.1500/mile

21 MPG:
Gas: $3/gallon
Cost per mile: $0.1429/mile

Difference per mile: $0.0071/mile

If the e-fan costs $100, it will take 14,084 miles to recoup your costs in mileage increases alone. ($100 / $0.0071 = 14,084).

(p.s., I noticed a 1-2MPG increase with mine. 14K miles is nothing.)

Most bone yard fans are 10-20 bux

[nater006]

Quote: Originally Posted by rlith

Most bone yard fans are 10-20 bux

Correct. But not everybody goes that route, either. If you do a $20 e-fan instead of a $100 one, just divide the miles needed to recoup your costs by 5 Most of the salvage fans I found around here were higher, and by the time you pick up a $20 thermostat kit, mounting hardware, possibly wiring, and whatever else, it can turn into a larger investment. Different people go different routes, and $100 was a good number to work with.

[rlith]

Quote: Originally Posted by nater006

Correct. But not everybody goes that route, either. If you do a $20 e-fan instead of a $100 one, just divide the miles needed to recoup your costs by 5 Most of the salvage fans I found around here were higher, and by the time you pick up a $20 thermostat kit, mounting hardware, possibly wiring, and whatever else, it can turn into a larger investment. Different people go different routes, and $100 was a good number to work with.

Like you say, depends on the way you go...besides, it does free up some ponies...

[nater006]

I'm very much for this mod. By far it was the best bang for the buck for my truck. Greatly reduces the noise and was a noticeable MPG increase.

There's always somebody throwing around the fuel economy vs. modification cost argument. The reality is in the math. ~14,100 miles is *nothing* for most of us.

[rlith]

Quote: Originally Posted by nater006

I'm very much for this mod. By far it was the best bang for the buck for my truck. Greatly reduces the noise and was a noticeable MPG increase.

There's always somebody throwing around the fuel economy vs. modification cost argument. The reality is in the math. ~14,100 miles is *nothing* for most of us.

Heh, I know what you mean. Last time you were at my place, my truck was at 140k, I'm currently at 202,411 eheheheh

[tippmann243]

Quote: Originally Posted by rlith

Actually, in either diagram, if you have it wired correctly, the AC will force the fan to come on high and cut low, . whereas the temp sensor will start the low side when reaching temp. The fan isn't required for AC though

im running into the same problem as superbee.

using the schematic rilth posted for the dual speed fan, low comes on with the thermostatic switch, and high comes on when i turn on the AC. but the high speed wont come on unless low has already been triggered.

just an fyi your ac WILL NOT work unless there is airflow over the condenser. ask me how i know

[nater006]

Some empirical evidence from the Hayden/Imperial manufacturer, if anybody cares. Taken right from their 2007 e-fan catalog.



Poor CFM at a poor amperage. Perma-cool and Flex-a-lite both pull 2800+ CFM at 9 and 14 amps, respectively.

[blazerman]

ok,i really need some help,i just got done putting in a taurus fan in my blazer,first thing,i havent been able to get the fan to come on from the thermostat,and second,when i turn the ac on the high side kidks on but the truck wants to stutter and shut off,sometimes it will keep running and sometimes it will cut off,also a few times when the ac was on the truck idled at 1500 or rpms so i know thats not right.if anyone can help me please let me know,iguess i used the right diagram and everything(i hope)and i a hope i put the thermostat probe in the right place,and is there another thermostat that i ccan use that doesnt go through the radiator,i just dont trust the one i got,it also didnt come with instructions so i hope i hooked it up right.sorry about the long post but i need help bad, i have to have the truck back on the road monday morning.thanks

[blazerman]

also i couldnt get the 1N4007 diode,i could only get the 1n4005 diode,is this ok?and also the thermostat i have has 2 hook ups on the controller does it matter which wire goes to what or should they go to certain places?

[blazerman]

[/QUOTE]

ok never mind me and a friend figured it out,we used this wiring diagram but we made some changes to it.hopefully i can get it up tomorrow to help anyone that had the same problems as me.

[Rockrz]

Wouldn't the Flex-A-Lite control module work for these Taurus fans???

[What?]

I got clutch fan off, needless to say, notice the power back very nice and driving around without efan with 180* and as long under 70*, my temp do not move higher than it did with clutch fan, it jsut warm engine in a minute versus 5min with clutch fan and mantains at all mph speed. It idles same temp, but earlier the day(80*) it was 1 line higher at idle then back normal, for winter being I'll just hook up with manual switch with my 3.8L mustang fan seing it doesn't really get over 180* without efan

[Rockrz]

I'm going to simply my life after using cheap Flex-A-Lite fans where the fan itself keeps coming loose on the shaft (defective)

I'm going to get the 11in Spal eFan setup and use the Flex-A-Lite controller which is easy to wire up and works great.

[jcline2007]

my taurus e-fan pulls 38 amps!!!!!!but it really BLOWS too

[kenny8iron]

Hayden and Imperial fans are light duty with bogus air flow ratings. You can tell just by the amp draw of the motor that they will not move much air. The best aftermarket electric fans are produced by Spal (www.spalusa.com). They are the only aftermarket company I know of to produce a fan comparable to the Taurus unit. Notice how they give airflow ratings using static pressure not just free flow numbers.

[nater006]

Quote: Originally Posted by kenny8iron

Hayden and Imperial fans are light duty with bogus air flow ratings. You can tell just by the amp draw of the motor that they will not move much air. The best aftermarket electric fans are produced by Spal (www.spalusa.com). They are the only aftermarket company I know of to produce a fan comparable to the Taurus unit. Notice how they give airflow ratings using static pressure not just free flow numbers.

That isn't totally correct.

The Perma-cool runs at 9 amps but pulls 2950 cfm, and the Flex-a-Lite Black Magic is 13-14 amps I believe, at 2800 cfm.

My comments (and, the table above, in this same post) are that Hayden/Imperial are very poor quality for the amp draw. A high flow fan does not need to draw an excessive amount of amps.

For many/most applications, the Flex-a-Lite or Perma-cool is more than sufficient cooling. I elected for the much lower amp draw (compared to Taurus fans) for lesser CFM, and it has done an exceptional job of keeping my truck running cool.

EDIT: interestingly enough, I looked at those Spal fans and they do not deliver a high CFM. Better than Imperial/Hayden, but lower than Perma-cool or Flex-a-lite. Of course, comparing free airflow to restricted airflow will reduce the others' numbers a bit... but, not that much!

[kenny8iron]

Don't want to argue, just pointing out the facts as I and several others I know have witnessed. You would be very suprised to know the actual pressure drop across a good quality 2 row radiator. Of course there are many other factors that come into play such as fin count, core thickness and the material of which the radiator is manufactured. I'm not trying to call any particular manufactures product garbage, every product has its place. I can tell you that we use these fans on big blocks ranging up to 557 cubic inches in Florida and Texas and they're able to do the job. With that being said I don't think a 4.3 would be any problem.

[nater006]

Quote: Originally Posted by kenny8iron

Don't want to argue, just pointing out the facts as I and several others I know have witnessed. You would be very suprised to know the actual pressure drop across a good quality 2 row radiator. Of course there are many other factors that come into play such as fin count, core thickness and the material of which the radiator is manufactured. I'm not trying to call any particular manufactures product garbage, every product has its place. I can tell you that we use these fans on big blocks ranging up to 557 cubic inches in Florida and Texas and they're able to do the job. With that being said I don't think a 4.3 would be any problem.

No problem at all - I was just stating what I know about these, also. The amperage doesn't have to be super high for good cooling. For almost every build in here, either the Taurus or other couple options are more than sufficient cooling. Just my $.02!

(The Hayden/Imperial chart above gives a better example what I'm talking about with free air flow vs restricted. There is definitely a reduction, but as you can see by the table, it's not like you chop it really far down.

[1stGenFan]

Just a couple questions.... 1) what type/size wiring do I use? I was going to use 10 guage for the 12v constant and 16 guage for the rest is that OK?
2) I'm using the stock alternator (85a I think), am I gonna need to upgrade this first if I use the Taurus fan?

[1stGenFan]

^^^ Anyone?

[nater006]

Quote: Originally Posted by 1stGenFan

Just a couple questions.... 1) what type/size wiring do I use? I was going to use 10 guage for the 12v constant and 16 guage for the rest is that OK?
2) I'm using the stock alternator (85a I think), am I gonna need to upgrade this first if I use the Taurus fan?

Sorry, didn't notice this was in the sticky..

For the Taurus fan, you'd want to do at least 10 gauge for the power and ground wires. The activator wire for the relay doesn't need to be a large gauge as it carries a very minor amount of signal. I posted a chart earlier in this post that deals with wire gauge to amperage. Meeting & exceeding is good. Getting smaller than the recommended is very bad.

As for the alternator upgrade, I'd definitely say yes. At idle, which is where your fan is likely going to kick on, is where your alternator is putting out a low wattage - nowhere near the 85 the alternator is rated at. The Taurus fan can draw 25+ amps easily on high. (There are posts here and in other forums about people blowing 30 amp fuses on fan startup)

[ZR2 MIKE]

I just did the Taurus efan mod myself in my BlaZeR2.
Here is my write-up and photos

I'm only running low speed right now off of a 30/40 amp controller.
I am considering using this wiring diagram to run the low and high with.

Comments welcome.

[tt85_GM]

wow nice swap pages man^^

[ZR2 MIKE]

Quote: Originally Posted by tt85_GM

wow nice swap pages man^^

Thanks
Been working on the wiring diagram and I am not going with the one I posted above. You can read this thread of what I'm going to go with: http://www.s10forum.com/forum/f62/ta...4/#post5225571

[LM_67_Nova]

I am running the Taurus fan setup in my 1967 Chevy Nova. I run a 350+ hp 327. I have the low speed fan running off of a Hayden switch that is set at 195. The high speed side is connect thru a manual switch. The only time I use the high speed fan is to quickly cool the car down below 160 when I park the thing.

The low speed side of the fan works just fine. Cruising well over 50 miles at a time.

[ZR2 MIKE]

Sounds good! These fans move a ton of air. Wish I would have gone the Taurus efan route the first time and saved me a year's worth of frustration trying to stay cool. I've been running mine on low for the past month and its working great. But I'll what that high speed available come summer time when my AC is on in case it does run hot.

[sparky2613]

What you think?

http://www.jegs.com/p/JEGS/1040685/1...tm_campaign=04

[Yogi]

It's only 1/2" deep!! That's not going to flow much air through the area covered by the shroud!

[sparky2613]

so nogo?

[Yogi]

I would go with no shroud rather than using one that shallow!

[nodwas]

is this mod aimed more for manuals? or would it be beneficial for autos too?