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2000 Blazer. rough idle, misfires, no compression cyl #5

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Old 06-27-2011, 10:40 PM   #1
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2000 Blazer. rough idle, misfires, no compression cyl #5

I bought a blazer today that doesn't run right, it has a rough running 4.3, barely stays running on idle. I hooked up my tech 2 scan tool and seen a bunch of codes, map, mass air flow, misfire etc, I then cleared all codes and started it up a few times with only the misfire code returning, it runs but ruff, It will barely stay idling and wants to die but stays running for the most part. I pulled up the misfire graph and cylinder 5 is misfiring constantly across the graph with 3 following behind very slowly... not nearly as bad (The guy that owned it before me gave it a full tune up, wires and plugs, cap, rotor and map sensor before giving up.) those are the only two cylinders that have misfire data, I disabled the fuel injector for 5 with the tech 2 and there was no change in rpm or the way it was running so I figured it was an injector or spider injection problem. I didn't mess with 3, had to leave for work, I only looked at it for about 10 minutes so far... had limited time working on this since i had to get to work. I've heard the spider injection on these motors are notorious for problems and was thinking it is a fuel injector but have a feeling it could be a cam or crank shaft sensor. from reading other peoples posts. I don't hear a vacuum leak and seen decent intake air flow on the tech 2 so i took MAF and intake gasket out of the equation, although that would make sense why the two cylinders next to each other are showing the problem... It sustains a hiccuping steady rpm with 1/4 throttle for a few seconds and then it seems to get confused or trys to compensate and starts dying down... sometimes staying at 1/4 longer??? I have to play with the throttle a tiny bit and bring it back to 1/4 for it to sustain again. does anyone have any suggestions on what the problem seems to point to more than others?

According to the Tech 2 the Engine is running constantly rich and not changing between rich and lean like it is suppose to. (I'm not 100% if I was in closed loop or open loop but thought reguardless it should variate between the two even if I was still in open)

I haven't been able to check fuel pressure or pull the #5 spark plug yet.

I know I have bits and pieces of information but I have only had time to look at it very briefly and am at work now.

TPS reading worked from 0 - 100%
Old 06-28-2011, 03:59 AM   #2
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Re: 2000 Blazer. rough idle, misfires, i have tech 2 diag info

Start with the basics. Verify spark on those two cylinders - verify plug condition. Perform a compression test / leak down. Use the Tech 2 and a fuel pressure gauge to perform a cylinder balance test.
Old 06-28-2011, 08:44 AM   #3
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Re: 2000 Blazer. rough idle, misfires, i have tech 2 diag info

first does it smooth out if you revv up the engine and clear it out?

if it does, you possibly have a fuel leak in the intake. I replaced a blazer's fuel pressure regulator a few months ago for the same problem.
Old 06-28-2011, 10:35 AM   #4
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Re: 2000 Blazer. rough idle, misfires, i have tech 2 diag info

it never smooths out, still misfires but the other cyclinders bring the engine rpm up, then all of a sudden it drops down and i have to give it 1/2 and go back to 1/4 and back to 1/2 then I can stay at 1/4.

So chevk cyclinder compression for a bad valve or rings and fuel pressure gauge for normal fuel pressure, if the injection is bad and im loosing power will it hold pressure if cyclinder 5 is disabled and leaking at the spider? not sure how the spider works and where the common problem is with it but if it is leaking from one port will a cyclinder power balance shut that tube off.


does this sound like crankshaft or cam sensor? or even ignition control module?
Old 06-28-2011, 11:49 AM   #5
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Re: 2000 Blazer. rough idle, misfires, i have tech 2 diag info

Quote: Originally Posted by krazii
it never smooths out, still misfires but the other cyclinders bring the engine rpm up, then all of a sudden it drops down and i have to give it 1/2 and go back to 1/4 and back to 1/2 then I can stay at 1/4.

So chevk cyclinder compression for a bad valve or rings and fuel pressure gauge for normal fuel pressure, if the injection is bad and im loosing power will it hold pressure if cyclinder 5 is disabled and leaking at the spider? not sure how the spider works and where the common problem is with it but if it is leaking from one port will a cyclinder power balance shut that tube off.


does this sound like crankshaft or cam sensor? or even ignition control module?
Compression test / leak down test will check compression, valve seating etc. Run an injector balance test using your tech 2 and a FP gauge to check for individual injector operation.
Old 06-28-2011, 10:46 PM   #6
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Re: 2000 Blazer. rough idle, misfires, i have tech 2 diag info

okay, did more work today, only cylinder 5 was misfiring, i drove the truck home today and boy was it dogging, no power, just putt-ing along. died a few times, I got flipped off and cursed at two times. heh....got it to the house shut it off and experienced what i think is called pre-ignition the truck ran for about 3 seconds the key was turned off. then it finally quit. pulled the #5 spark plug, plug was black with a think coat of soot. Thing wont idle smoothly for nothing, after messing with it for awhile and trying to rev it... it miraculously had power, thank god.... no mechanical problems... (had a knocking sound but pretty sure it is the tensioner and/or detnotion because of the misfire) held 3k rpm good with the sound of power and a slight misfire out of 6 but a lot healthier sounding....drop back to idle, barely idled again, revved up to 3k... power again.. plugged the tech 2 in.... at idle cylinder 5 constant misfire, rev up, misfire stops at cylinder 5 and cylinder 6 starts to slowly chime in with a misfire. I called a friend that used to work for a Chevy dealer and he said the poppets are more than likely obstructed and I should pull the intake off, hook the fuel and return lines back up, and pull the poppets and do an injector test with the tech 2 and use a dental pick to clean the poppets that are plugged... and most of the time you don't need new injectors its the poppets that get plugged. he said that the 10% ethanol in the gas we run now breaks the rubber down in time and forms a rubber gunk that gunks up the poppets leading them to malfunction..

does this sound about right? anyone have any input on the diagnose? I also forgot to tell my friend about the pre-ignition/running after the key was pulled although that was the only time it did that. I have a few readings off the tech 2 listed below if they help????

CODES:
P0101
P0300


TPS GOOD FROM 0 - 100%

BARO: 4.85V / :101KPA CONSTANT
MAF :6 - :21 G/S APPROX RANGE WITH REVS
KS ACTIVITY :64 - :240 APPROX RANGE WITH REVS
CMP CORD :-6 DEGREES STEADY (THINK THE WIFE WROTE IT DOWN AND WAS COMP NOT SURE)
SPARK CONTROL: ADVANCE
AIR FUEL: 14.7:1
IAT 127 DEGREES FARENHEIGHT
EVAP CANISTER PURGE :ON :5% DUTY CYCLE
KS: 4.8V
POWER ENRICHMENT: INACTIVE
Old 06-28-2011, 11:05 PM   #7
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Re: 2000 Blazer. rough idle, misfires, i have tech 2 diag info

Did the PO do any work to the truck? If you pull the upper intake, check the injectors to see if they are in the right cylinder runners. The cylinder number is on the injector housing block.
Old 06-28-2011, 11:13 PM   #8
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Re: 2000 Blazer. rough idle, misfires, i have tech 2 diag info

Going out on a limb but guessing i solved this problem or part of it... fingers crossed...

The phenomenon is also referred to as 'after-run', or 'run-on' or sometimes dieseling, when it causes the engine to carry on running after the ignition is shut off. This effect is more readily achieved on carbureted gasoline engines, because the fuel supply to the carburetor is typically regulated by a passive mechanical float valve and fuel delivery can feasibly continue until fuel line pressure has been relieved, provided the fuel can be somehow drawn past the throttle plate. The occurrence is rare in modern engines with throttle-body or electronic fuel injection, because the injectors will not be permitted to continue delivering fuel after the engine is shut off, and any occurrence may indicate the presence of a leaking (failed) injector.[3]
Old 06-28-2011, 11:14 PM   #9
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Re: 2000 Blazer. rough idle, misfires, i have tech 2 diag info

he also said im going to have to and/or should replace the upper intake gasket after i rip it apart.
Old 06-28-2011, 11:17 PM   #10
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Re: 2000 Blazer. rough idle, misfires, i have tech 2 diag info

po had the regulator serviced but said it ran fine after that.
Old 06-28-2011, 11:19 PM   #11
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Re: 2000 Blazer. rough idle, misfires, i have tech 2 diag info

Based upon your symptoms, I'd diagnose the fuel system as the problem. I'm guessing 110K miles. I'd swap out the poppit system for an MPFI injector upgrade. It's very easy.

The next thing would be the distributor replacement.

Inspect/replace all vacuum lines, check all of your wiring to make sure there are no abrasions and that then clean all of your ground connections.

How old is the battery?
Are the cables original?
Old 06-28-2011, 11:24 PM   #12
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Re: 2000 Blazer. rough idle, misfires, i have tech 2 diag info

170k miles, decently cleaned and a lot of stuff replaced by p.o. fuel pump etc. not sure whats under the plenum, whats the common problem with the stock distributor? i want to get it running so i can drive it home so would do that in the future, its at a familys house in the city i bought it 60 miles away. If i could clean the poppets and get it home the mpfi would work for next time i have problems with it. does the mpfi conversion add any numbers as far as performance... not looking for performance but if its a fix with a plus... hell with it why not..
Old 06-29-2011, 10:18 AM   #13
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Re: 2000 Blazer. rough idle, misfires, i have tech 2 diag info

I'm getting a new spider for it, Now as far as the Distributor, I see the CMP retard is-6 DEGREES which should be about 0. I was thinking this was going to correct itself to the default condition when I get the motor running better... Is there a commmon problem with the whole distributor itself in these motors? PhilNTX?
Old 06-29-2011, 12:28 PM   #14
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Re: 2000 Blazer. rough idle, misfires, i have tech 2 diag info

just a thought , i had a crankshaft sensor start going out, no codefor it , 3 years later i got tired of it missing a beat once in a while at around 60 mph . the only thing to snap on tool whith tech 2 whould show is a random misfire on all cylinders , was worce on 2 different cylinders . they can shut down the motor if it dont see it on the computer more than signal . it might or might not be your problem .
Old 07-05-2011, 10:43 AM   #15
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Re: 2000 Blazer. rough idle, misfires, i have tech 2 diag info

replaced spider with new unit, improvement but still having misfire problems on 5 but the motor is more responsive than before.... cylinder 5 misfires slow down when throttle is applied and it moves around to mainly 6 but have seen other cyclinders report a misfire on the tech 2,???? it revs better but idles like crap still, I put it in drive, drove it around a little, it has hesitation then some power got about a block and it hesitated again, like it was dieing down, no power or any throttle response even when pumping the gas pedal then (computer caught up?) and it found itself and drove and putted along again, anyone have any ideas???? I'm also now pulling mass air flow sensor code and misfire but I see anywhere from 6 -7 grams to approx 20 from the mass airflow sensor on the tech 2.
Old 07-05-2011, 11:44 AM   #16
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Re: 2000 Blazer. rough idle, misfires, i have tech 2 diag info

Quote: Originally Posted by krazii
replaced spider with new unit, improvement but still having misfire problems on 5 but the motor is more responsive than before.... cylinder 5 misfires slow down when throttle is applied and it moves around to mainly 6 but have seen other cyclinders report a misfire on the tech 2,???? it revs better but idles like crap still, I put it in drive, drove it around a little, it has hesitation then some power got about a block and it hesitated again, like it was dieing down, no power or any throttle response even when pumping the gas pedal then (computer caught up?) and it found itself and drove and putted along again, anyone have any ideas???? I'm also now pulling mass air flow sensor code and misfire but I see anywhere from 6 -7 grams to approx 20 from the mass airflow sensor on the tech 2.
Put the tech 2 away and run a compression / leak down test on cyl 5. If you are mechanically sound & sure you have good spark run a cyl. fuel injector balance test w/ the tech 2.
Old 07-05-2011, 11:48 AM   #17
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Re: 2000 Blazer. rough idle, misfires, i have tech 2 diag info

i tried doing a compresson test but the cheap compression tester i bought was junk and didnt work right. i did a spark test and had an orange spark. Im hoping its not a bad valve.
Old 07-05-2011, 11:50 AM   #18
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Re: 2000 Blazer. rough idle, misfires, i have tech 2 diag info

and if it is a compression problem, im hoping it just a valve with no cyclinder damage so i can swap heads.
Old 07-05-2011, 09:56 PM   #19
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Re: 2000 Blazer. rough idle, misfires, i have tech 2 diag info

what are the possible reasons for a misfire in 5 with new injection and spark plug installed. im thinking next step it, cap, rotor, and ohm the plug wire out.... mainly triying to get my hands on a decent compression tester. it did make the loud compression poofs with the spark plug out but figure theres no way to check for good compression without a decent compression tester
Old 07-06-2011, 03:54 AM   #20
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Re: 2000 Blazer. rough idle, misfires, i have tech 2 diag info

anyone please? i know this post is turning into a marathon but i would really like some extra input. i know what keen said sounds like a good route but if anyone else has something to add please do so. now the orange spark was on a harbor freight spark tester and i think it is has a light bulb so im going to use the plug itself to test it next time to check for good spark.
Old 07-06-2011, 01:01 PM   #21
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Re: 2000 Blazer. rough idle, misfires, i have tech 2 diag info

Quote: Originally Posted by krazii
what are the possible reasons for a misfire in 5 with new injection and spark plug installed. im thinking next step it, cap, rotor, and ohm the plug wire out.... mainly triying to get my hands on a decent compression tester. it did make the loud compression poofs with the spark plug out but figure theres no way to check for good compression without a decent compression tester

In order for combustion you need 1) compression 2) fuel 3) spark @ the right time. Any auto technicain would verify these in order to make a proper diagnosis.1) A shop / technician would run a compression test to verify the cylinder produces enough pressure 2) Sytem fuel pressure would be checked w/ a gauge & since it is fuel injection a scan tool could run a fuel inector balance test to determine individual fuel injector operation (flow & ecm driver operation 3) An ignition scope / KV analyzer to measure spark output w/ the engine running. Guessing wastes time & money - repair shops exist for a reason.
Old 07-07-2011, 02:38 AM   #22
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Re: 2000 Blazer. rough idle, misfires, i have tech 2 diag info

have you checked the ground cable? ( cleaned with a small wire brush or sand paper mabe w-d40 the rust / dust and retighten the bolt ) from battery to the front passenger side of the motor,this drove me crazy and the dealer even missed it when i had enough of mine mine cuttin off .i did a thread on it ,nothin made sence . misses, crazy guages , fuel pump cut off, all at random times . http://www.s10forum.com/forum/f107/t...le-cup-471017/ i was about to have a computer reflashed before i did wind that . mabe it will help some
Old 07-08-2011, 10:51 PM   #23
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Re: 2000 Blazer. rough idle, misfires, no compression cyl #5

No compression Cylinder 5, spark plug has black carbon on it, what does this sound like? bent exhaust valve? after revving it makes a internal popping sound... guessing the exhaust valve isnt opening or somethings going on there. I'm guessing i could possibly replace the head with one from the bone yard or the whole motor. game plan right now is to rip into the head, take it off if rockers are fine.. before i decide if i should go the route of an replacement motor or not. input is appreciated.


the exhaust is running pretty, hot when I put my hand up to it, lots of pressure coming out of the muffler and the cat is warm but o2's read that it's still doing its job.
Old 07-09-2011, 02:12 AM   #24
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Re: 2000 Blazer. rough idle, misfires, no compression cyl #5

sorry to hear that kinda news for ya. looks like none of the options are gona be cheep
Old 07-09-2011, 10:56 AM   #25
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Re: 2000 Blazer. rough idle, misfires, no compression cyl #5

im doing it myself, have a cherry picker if that helps. heh, going to try to yank the head off and see if its repairable first. I bought it as a fixer upper, appreciate the sympathy though, I was really hoping it was a clogged poppet.
Old 07-09-2011, 10:59 AM   #26
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Re: 2000 Blazer. rough idle, misfires, no compression cyl #5

im looking for possible answers for 0 - 30 compression and back down on crank, i dont think its the rings, possible though, oils fine, could be a compression ring though i guess?? no smoke from the exhaust. I'm guessing it has to be with the valves. I will eventually find out..... just looking for advice on what to look for so I can spot it right away after removing the head,
Old 07-09-2011, 11:01 AM   #27
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Re: 2000 Blazer. rough idle, misfires, no compression cyl #5

ive read somewhere that the 906 castings heads are somewhat common for cracking?
Old 07-09-2011, 11:03 AM   #28
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Re: 2000 Blazer. rough idle, misfires, no compression cyl #5

going to perform a leak down....
Old 07-12-2011, 12:21 AM   #29
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Re: 2000 Blazer. rough idle, misfires, no compression cyl #5

okay, ripped a bunch of stuff apart today, ran out of time but lower intake manifold bolts and shes coming out everything else is disconnected and out of the way, accessory drive is pulled forward, and valve covers are off.. then down to the exhaust manifold and head. Very curious and anxious to see what it looks like in the galley under the intake.

I'm looking for your guys advice. The push-rod for the #5 exhaust valve is no where to be seen and the exhaust valve is stuck open, is this an interference motor? I'm hoping once I pull the intake off and head off the push rod is hanging out in the galley, and the cylinder wall, piston, cam lobe and lifter are still good so i can rebuilt the head or swap a junk yard one on it.

Do you guys think the cam or lifter could be damaged or that i could get lucky and get a new head with a new push-rod? I cranked it over with the valve cover off before i removed the distributor (avoiding finding tdc #1) and all of the other valves are functioning as should be...

pls post back.

thanks.
Old 07-12-2011, 12:35 AM   #30
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Re: 2000 Blazer. rough idle, misfires, no compression cyl #5

i had good oil pressure before i ripped it apart, i read somewhere that if the lifter is damage it will affect the oil pressure.
Old 07-12-2011, 02:02 AM   #31
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Re: 2000 Blazer. rough idle, misfires, no compression cyl #5

i dont know a hole lot about this motor.\but i can tell you a cloged hydrolic lifter can push the oil pressure up ,so you can see the guage go up in spikes on the guage . high milage oil aint good for thr 4.3 one of the lifters didnt pump up right til i put in a cleaner special for the engins .
Old 07-12-2011, 06:38 PM   #32
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Re: 2000 Blazer. rough idle, misfires, no compression cyl #5

valve stuck open. cylinder, lifters, look good.
Old 07-27-2011, 01:50 PM   #33
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Re: 2000 Blazer. rough idle, misfires, no compression cyl #5

Grabbed a junk yard head, lapped the valves, used a gun cleaning brush to clean valve guides, lubed everything, slapped it back together and she runs like a dream!!!!
Old 07-27-2011, 01:51 PM   #34
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Re: 2000 Blazer. rough idle, misfires, no compression cyl #5

great learning experience
Old 07-27-2011, 03:46 PM   #35
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Re: 2000 Blazer. rough idle, misfires, no compression cyl #5

Quote: Originally Posted by krazii
great learning experience
krazil, I was wondering in one of your posts, you said the push rod was nowhere to be seen, does that mean it fell into the bottom of engine?
Old 02-25-2013, 03:00 PM   #36
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Re: 2000 Blazer. rough idle, misfires, no compression cyl #5

Push rod was sitting on in engine/oil valley. I think the previous owner mixed dexcool and gly-green heh coolant and over-revved the motor without sufficient cooling. There was a build up of dexcool in the coolant passages.

bought new pushrods for bank 1 head, junkyard head, lapped the valves, cleaned stems and guides with a brass brush on firearm bore kit and a drill gun and caked everything with assembly lube. has been running great with lots of towing for the last 6 months.


Quote: Originally Posted by rachel11
krazil, I was wondering in one of your posts, you said the push rod was nowhere to be seen, does that mean it fell into the bottom of engine?
Old 02-25-2013, 03:08 PM   #37
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Re: 2000 Blazer. rough idle, misfires, no compression cyl #5

oil was changed before I ran the engine again, will never run a motor in excess during diagnostics again, beating around the bush and failing to do a compression test; will never skip an IMPORTANT diag step like that again.

tracking down a p0300 on my brothers 5.3 now, joy.... down to the assumption after diagnosing all fuel and spark related problems, we are only left with compression/leak down test pointing to cam lobe and/or valve issue or crank/cam sensor. not sure which sensor. so dont take this paragraph as advice. I have to do some reading and research myself.

or a hairline crack in the intake that we missed during inspection; while replacing the intake manifold gasket.

and someone said maybe the computer needs a re-calibration. who knows??? one thing that is a positive is only mostly labor hours are spent on tracing the problem rather than throwing parts at it.
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