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1997 S-10 SS Vortec 4.3 Cranks, But No Start...

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Old 06-18-2008, 12:59 PM   #1
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1997 S-10 SS Vortec 4.3 Cranks, But No Start...

Hi All;
I have been helping my father troubleshoot a issue with his S-10.

Model: 97 S-10 SS, with 4.3l W VIN Engine Code, 2 Wheel Drive.
Issue: Cranks, No Start.

History: Prior to the truck only just cranking with no start, it would occasionally cut out while driving, drop back about 200 rpm, throw a SES, but return to normal less than a second later, never actually dying.

We did not have a code scanner until recently, but we were able to scan for codes before it actually quit running, and none were found.

Were using a Innova 3110 Scanner.

We even scanned for codes after it died, and not were found.

We have since:
- Replaced the cap and rotor.
- Checked fuel pressure, at check valve, and its at 62psi

- Strong spark at coil, and all plugs.
- Fuel pump primes, and sounds strong.
- Cranks strong.
- Replaced the cam position sensor
- Replaced the crank position sensor
- Replaced the throttle position sensor
- Checked continuity on all fuses.
- Checked voltages at Ignition control module, and coil.
- Cleaned the contacts on the conectors at the Crank Position, TPS, Coil, and ICM.
- Oil is clean, and has no signs of a blown head gasket.
- All of dash, accessories, and gauges, work fine.

The only thing that we did notice, was that when we put it all back together we accidently got the plug wires in the wrong order, and it wanted to fire.. but just stumbled...

We are down to it maybe being the distributor..... dunno what else it could be... anyone else have any ideas? Injector pulses?
Old 06-18-2008, 01:03 PM   #2
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Re: 1997 S-10 SS Vortec 4.3 Cranks, But No Start...

Check fuel pressure. Pump may run and sound OK but fuel pressure may be low due to bad reg or weak pump. Pressure below a certain value will get you a no start.
Old 06-18-2008, 01:10 PM   #3
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Re: 1997 S-10 SS Vortec 4.3 Cranks, But No Start...

Quote: Originally Posted by Raylo
Check fuel pressure. Pump may run and sound OK but fuel pressure may be low due to bad reg or weak pump. Pressure below a certain value will get you a no start.
We did check that pressure at the check valve right behind the throttle body, and its a solid 62psi.

Is there another place I should be looking for fuel pressure at?
Old 06-18-2008, 01:11 PM   #4
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Re: 1997 S-10 SS Vortec 4.3 Cranks, But No Start...

Well, you have done a lot.
Do you smell gas at the tail pipe after trying to start it for a while?

Double check the plug wire order. You say that it wanted to start when 2 wires were wrong, does it still want to start?

Double check all the wires going to the dizzy and coil...

Does it seem that it almost fires when you let off the starter?
Old 06-18-2008, 01:24 PM   #5
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Re: 1997 S-10 SS Vortec 4.3 Cranks, But No Start...

Quote: Originally Posted by Bill Wheats
Well, you have done a lot.
Do you smell gas at the tail pipe after trying to start it for a while?

Double check the plug wire order. You say that it wanted to start when 2 wires were wrong, does it still want to start?

Double check all the wires going to the dizzy and coil...

Does it seem that it almost fires when you let off the starter?
I know while trying to start it yesterday I did get a whiff of gas, it had to off been the tail pipe, becuase we could not smell anything up near the throttle body.

The coil wires and distributor are all correct.

No, it never does not try or attempt to fire.
Old 06-18-2008, 01:30 PM   #6
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Re: 1997 S-10 SS Vortec 4.3 Cranks, But No Start...

We used to take the rotor out as a joke....
You should smell gas if the fuel system is working. Open the air filter and see if it smells strong of gass after trying to start.
Re check the plug wire order at the cap. I think you said that you had good spark.
You need good continous spark. You should watch for more than one spark when testing. Check for spark again.

Last edited by Bill Wheats; 06-18-2008 at 01:32 PM.
Old 06-18-2008, 01:40 PM   #7
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Re: 1997 S-10 SS Vortec 4.3 Cranks, But No Start...

On a note here, both piston #1, & piston #4, are on TDC when the crankshaft pulley is stationary at TDC,,, Each revolution of the crank, will set the engine up for one, or the other to fire, (your cam actually moves only 1/2 a turn per each full crank rev) so make sure you're valves are closed, and, You are on TDC for #1,,,, Or, take out your distributor, give the rotor 1/2 a turn, so it's facing #4, and try it then!
Old 06-18-2008, 01:46 PM   #8
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Re: 1997 S-10 SS Vortec 4.3 Cranks, But No Start...

Spray starting fluid while trying to crank. If you are getting a strong spark as you say, the engine should fire when you are spraying the starting fluid. If it fires and runs, and since you have good fuel pressure I'd say the injector assembly is toasted.
Old 06-18-2008, 01:51 PM   #9
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Re: 1997 S-10 SS Vortec 4.3 Cranks, But No Start...

Quote: Originally Posted by MikDee
On a note here, both piston #1, & piston #4, are on TDC when the crankshaft pulley is stationary at TDC,,, Each revolution of the crank, will set the engine up for one, or the other to fire, (your cam actually moves only 1/2 a turn per each full crank rev) so make sure you're valves are closed, and, You are on TDC for #1,,,, Or, take out your distributor, give the rotor 1/2 a turn, so it's facing #4, and try it then!
Do you mean just take the dist cap on, and turn the rotor a half turn, and bolt it back on?
Old 06-18-2008, 01:52 PM   #10
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Re: 1997 S-10 SS Vortec 4.3 Cranks, But No Start...

Quote: Originally Posted by MikeInCtown
Spray starting fluid while trying to crank. If you are getting a strong spark as you say, the engine should fire when you are spraying the starting fluid. If it fires and runs, and since you have good fuel pressure I'd say the injector assembly is toasted.
I have been reading around that the injector assembly on these can be a problem... I will try the starter fluid, and see what happens...
Old 06-18-2008, 01:55 PM   #11
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Re: 1997 S-10 SS Vortec 4.3 Cranks, But No Start...

If you really have a strong spark at all plugs, and you have 62 psi at the fuel rail, the only things left are the spider (fuel injectors) or the pcm (powertrain control module: engine computer). Are you positive that you have a strong spark at all cylinders?

And please don't pull the distributor, unless it has been disturbed for some reason.
Old 06-18-2008, 02:01 PM   #12
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Re: 1997 S-10 SS Vortec 4.3 Cranks, But No Start...

Quote: Originally Posted by Yogi
If you really have a strong spark at all plugs, and you have 62 psi at the fuel rail, the only things left are the spider (fuel injectors) or the pcm (powertrain control module: engine computer). Are you positive that you have a strong spark at all cylinders?

And please don't pull the distributor, unless it has been disturbed for some reason.
Yes, we tested at the fuel rail and got 62psi.

Yes, we tested for spark at all plugs, and got a good strong spark on each. Same thing at the coil, a good strong continous spark.

We have been thinking that it might be the PCM, but dont know how to test it... can the Chevy dealer do that?

Since I dont smell fuel in the throttle body, I am leaning towards it being the spider....

And no the distributor has not been disturbed, we just replaced the cap and rotor.
Old 06-18-2008, 02:16 PM   #13
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Re: 1997 S-10 SS Vortec 4.3 Cranks, But No Start...

Quote: Originally Posted by MikDee
On a note here, both piston #1, & piston #4, are on TDC when the crankshaft pulley is stationary at TDC,,, Each revolution of the crank, will set the engine up for one, or the other to fire, (your cam actually moves only 1/2 a turn per each full crank rev) so make sure you're valves are closed, and, You are on TDC for #1,,,, Or, take out your distributor, give the rotor 1/2 a turn, so it's facing #4, and try it then!
They didn't pull the dizzy, or timing chain, so the distributor should still be correct.
Old 06-18-2008, 02:51 PM   #14
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Re: 1997 S-10 SS Vortec 4.3 Cranks, But No Start...

Quote: Originally Posted by azpyroguy
Yes, we tested at the fuel rail and got 62psi.

Yes, we tested for spark at all plugs, and got a good strong spark on each. Same thing at the coil, a good strong continous spark.

We have been thinking that it might be the PCM, but dont know how to test it... can the Chevy dealer do that?

Since I dont smell fuel in the throttle body, I am leaning towards it being the spider....

And no the distributor has not been disturbed, we just replaced the cap and rotor.
Yes, the dealer can test the pcm, but you can probably get a used one from the j/y for less than what the dealer would charge just to test it. I'm thinking a used one would cost about $75, but that is just a guess. I know for sure that you can buy a used one that has been tested and reprogrammed for better performance for $159 plus shipping from Wait4MePerformance.com. A new spider installation kit is about $280 shipped from GMPartsDirect.com. I wouldn't trust a used spider unless you can get one from an '03+. Even then you should study the pictures to be able to identify the late model spider.

There is a way to test the pcm for injector pulse with a test light, but I don't know how to do it. Maybe someone else will chime in here.

Last edited by Yogi; 06-18-2008 at 02:55 PM.
Old 06-18-2008, 02:52 PM   #15
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Re: 1997 S-10 SS Vortec 4.3 Cranks, But No Start...

Quote: Originally Posted by Bill Wheats
They didn't pull the dizzy, or timing chain, so the distributor should still be correct.
You said, you messed with the wiring order? You've got fuel pressure, you've got spark, and you smell gas at the tailpipe, unless you're plugs are soaking wet with gas?, it should start. If the engine ran pretty good before, it still should! If your wiring order is screwed up, you'll never get it to start! I meant the engine might be set to fire on #4 TDC, and you have the dist set for #1 TDC, if thats the case take out the dist, turn the rotor to face #4, and put the dist back in.

I'm not a newbie, been workin on engines for 50yrs, mostly chevys, if you doubt it look at my signature.
Old 06-18-2008, 02:53 PM   #16
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Re: 1997 S-10 SS Vortec 4.3 Cranks, But No Start...

Now that I think about it he did say that it had an SES light but that the code scanner couldn't pull any codes. Wouldn't that mean that the PCM wasn't storing codes or working properly?
Old 06-18-2008, 02:57 PM   #17
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Re: 1997 S-10 SS Vortec 4.3 Cranks, But No Start...

Take a look at the PCM. Look for loose connections, corrosion, and verify that it has a good ground.
*Tan/white wire at C17 and the black/white wire at A23 go to ground at the same spot.

The Pink wire going to the fuel injectors is hot (+12V) when the key is on RUN or Start. The PCM pulses a neg to each of the injectors. They each have their own wire run to them.
Testing for pulsing neg at the pcm might be easier.


If you don't get the pulsing neg, then go to your ignition control module in the dizzy. Look for corrosion and take a good look at the white wire for any possible shorting out issues. That is what sends the PCM the signal to neg pulse the injectors.
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1997 S-10 SS Vortec 4.3 Cranks, But No Start...-97-inj.gif  

Last edited by Bill Wheats; 06-18-2008 at 03:14 PM.
Old 06-18-2008, 03:00 PM   #18
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Re: 1997 S-10 SS Vortec 4.3 Cranks, But No Start...

Quote: Originally Posted by MikeInCtown
Now that I think about it he did say that it had an SES light but that the code scanner couldn't pull any codes. Wouldn't that mean that the PCM wasn't storing codes or working properly?
Not necessarily. They could be "soft" codes - ones that go away when the light goes out.

Again, please do not pull the distributor. Just make sure that the wires are on in the correct order.
Old 06-18-2008, 03:07 PM   #19
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Re: 1997 S-10 SS Vortec 4.3 Cranks, But No Start...

Quote: Originally Posted by Bill Wheats
Take a look at the PCM. Look for loose connections, corrosion, and verify that it has a good ground.
*Tan/white wire at C17 and the black/white wire at A23 go to ground at the same spot.

The Pink wire going to the fuel injectors is hot (+12V) when the key is on RUN or Start. The PCM pulses a neg to each of the injectors. They each have their own wire run to them.
Testing for pulsing neg at the pcm might be easier.


If that checks out then go to your ignition control module in the dizzy. Look for corrosion and take a good look at the white wire for any possible shorting out issues. That is what sends the PCM the signal to neg pulse the injectors.
The camshaft position sensor is in the dizzy. The ignition control module is on a bracket next to the ignition coil.
Old 06-18-2008, 03:09 PM   #20
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Re: 1997 S-10 SS Vortec 4.3 Cranks, But No Start...

Quote: Originally Posted by MikDee
You said, you messed with the wiring order? You've got fuel pressure, you've got spark, and you smell gas at the tailpipe, unless you're plugs are soaking wet with gas?, it should start. If the engine ran pretty good before, it still should! If your wiring order is screwed up, you'll never get it to start! I meant the engine might be set to fire on #4 TDC, and you have the dist set for #1 TDC, if thats the case take out the dist, turn the rotor to face #4, and put the dist back in.

I'm not a newbie, been workin on engines for 50yrs, mostly chevys, if you doubt it look at my signature.
Don't pull your dizzy yet!
You can't turn the dizzy on the 4.3 It is fixed and the timing is advance electronically. These dzzies can't be reinstalled 180` out because they have 13 teeth.
If their dizzy and timing chain haven't been pulled than that can't be the problem.....
However the firing order could be wrong because of the placement of the cables.
P.S. If you swap #4 and #2 the 4.3 will run. Couldn't believe it my self, but.. or Maybe that was #4 & #6??? whatever.

Last edited by Bill Wheats; 06-18-2008 at 03:17 PM.
Old 06-18-2008, 03:44 PM   #21
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Re: 1997 S-10 SS Vortec 4.3 Cranks, But No Start...

Quote: Originally Posted by Bill Wheats
Don't pull your dizzy yet!
You can't turn the dizzy on the 4.3 It is fixed and the timing is advance electronically. These dzzies can't be reinstalled 180` out because they have 13 teeth.
If their dizzy and timing chain haven't been pulled than that can't be the problem.....
However the firing order could be wrong because of the placement of the cables.
P.S. If you swap #4 and #2 the 4.3 will run. Couldn't believe it my self, but.. or Maybe that was #4 & #6??? whatever.
You Don't Turn The Dizzy! You turn the Rotor, 1/2 a turn, the Dizzy stays where it is!! If you have no spark at the plugs, it could be the ignition module in the dist, they go bad occasionally, they start acting up when hot by cutting out, then cool off, & run ok for awhile.

P.S. It doesn't matter how many teeth are on the dist gear, you pull the dist out, you turn the rotor till it lines up with #1, or #4, on the dist cap, depending on if the engine is set to fire on #1, or #4, then put the dist back in place where it belongs. Also, by the way, those wires start, & end, on the cap only in one particular place, (see the shop manual) you can't put them willy, nilly, anywhere on the cap! Plus they hafta go in a clockwise circle in the proper firing order.

Last edited by MikDee; 06-18-2008 at 03:58 PM.
Old 06-18-2008, 03:49 PM   #22
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Re: 1997 S-10 SS Vortec 4.3 Cranks, But No Start...

The rotor only goes on one way. It won't seat if you try to turn it 180*
Old 06-18-2008, 04:35 PM   #23
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Re: 1997 S-10 SS Vortec 4.3 Cranks, But No Start...

Quote: Originally Posted by MikDee
You Don't Turn The Dizzy! You turn the Rotor, 1/2 a turn, the Dizzy stays where it is!! If you have no spark at the plugs, it could be the ignition module in the dist, they go bad occasionally, they start acting up when hot by cutting out, then cool off, & run ok for awhile.

P.S. It doesn't matter how many teeth are on the dist gear, you pull the dist out, you turn the rotor till it lines up with #1, or #4, on the dist cap, depending on if the engine is set to fire on #1, or #4, then put the dist back in place where it belongs. Also, by the way, those wires start, & end, on the cap only in one particular place, (see the shop manual) you can't put them willy, nilly, anywhere on the cap! Plus they hafta go in a clockwise circle in the proper firing order.
You do understand that we are talking about a 4.3 here? And the OP didn't remove the dizzy or timing chain since it last ran right. I could believe that the chain slipped but we are still trying to prove whether the injectors are pumping fuel or not.

On an older engine, I would have kept turning the dizzy while someone ran the key until it fired. That isn't an option anymore.
Old 06-18-2008, 05:04 PM   #24
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Re: 1997 S-10 SS Vortec 4.3 Cranks, But No Start...

Quote: Originally Posted by Bill Wheats
You do understand that we are talking about a 4.3 here? And the OP didn't remove the dizzy or timing chain since it last ran right. I could believe that the chain slipped but we are still trying to prove whether the injectors are pumping fuel or not.

On an older engine, I would have kept turning the dizzy while someone ran the key until it fired. That isn't an option anymore.
I Do know that you can pull the Dizzy out, and put the rotor facing anywhere you want, and drop the Dizzy body back into it's "special" spot, do you understand that? The Chevy V6 has 2 cylinders that are at TDC at the same time, as the TDC crank timing mark,,, #1, & #4, The camshaft (which turns at 1/2 the speed of the crank, will determine which cylinder is ready to fire when the timing mark is on TDC) If your looking at Timing mark on the crank, you need to make sure that, the cam is ready to fire on #1, before you set the Dizzy rotor on #1, because if the engine was cranked with the Dizzy out, it could be #4, Do You understand? This pic shows where the wires physically belong on the cap:
Old 06-18-2008, 08:00 PM   #25
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Re: 1997 S-10 SS Vortec 4.3 Cranks, But No Start...

Quote: Originally Posted by azpyroguy
I have been reading around that the injector assembly on these can be a problem... I will try the starter fluid, and see what happens...
Have you tried the starter fluid yet?
Old 06-18-2008, 08:16 PM   #26
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Re: 1997 S-10 SS Vortec 4.3 Cranks, But No Start...

Quote: Originally Posted by MikDee
I Do know that you can pull the Dizzy out, and put the rotor facing anywhere you want, and drop the Dizzy body back into it's "special" spot, do you understand that? The Chevy V6 has 2 cylinders that are at TDC at the same time, as the TDC crank timing mark,,, #1, & #4, The camshaft (which turns at 1/2 the speed of the crank, will determine which cylinder is ready to fire when the timing mark is on TDC) If your looking at Timing mark on the crank, you need to make sure that, the cam is ready to fire on #1, before you set the Dizzy rotor on #1, because if the engine was cranked with the Dizzy out, it could be #4, Do You understand? This pic shows where the wires physically belong on the cap:
OK, do you understand that he DID NOT GET THE MECHANICAL TIMING OF THE DISTRIBUTOR OUT, he got the plugwires on wrong when he replaced them and the cap and rotor, the distributor should be left installed in the engine as he didnt pull it in the first place, he needs to try the starting fluid to see if she fires since it has good spark, if it doesnt fire then he needs to look into compression or timing.
Old 06-18-2008, 08:32 PM   #27
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Re: 1997 S-10 SS Vortec 4.3 Cranks, But No Start...

Quote: Originally Posted by MikDee
I Do know that you can pull the Dizzy out, and put the rotor facing anywhere you want, and drop the Dizzy body back into it's "special" spot, do you understand that? The Chevy V6 has 2 cylinders that are at TDC at the same time, as the TDC crank timing mark,,, #1, & #4, The camshaft (which turns at 1/2 the speed of the crank, will determine which cylinder is ready to fire when the timing mark is on TDC) If your looking at Timing mark on the crank, you need to make sure that, the cam is ready to fire on #1, before you set the Dizzy rotor on #1, because if the engine was cranked with the Dizzy out, it could be #4, Do You understand?
I understand exactly what you are saying. Unfortunately the designers in their wisdom gave the dizzy 13 teeth, not twelve or 6. That means that when you do what you are talking about doing on this engine then the timing will be off and you won't be able to adjust it.

Now getting back to this thread; What would lead you to believe that changing the firing sequence by changing the rotor to a different position then the crank and cam were factor set for is going to solve their issues since nobody has changed the crank to cam alignment?

Am I missing something?
Sorry for the long thread.

Last edited by Bill Wheats; 06-18-2008 at 08:37 PM.
Old 06-18-2008, 08:36 PM   #28
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Re: 1997 S-10 SS Vortec 4.3 Cranks, But No Start...

Forgot this is CSFI engine, try the starting fluid to see if she starts that will verify your wiring on the DIZZY is correct and that it should run but you are/arent getting fuel. Unhook the MAF sensor while you are at it, if the intake is off and air is not passing the MAF it wont fire the injectors, unhooking the MAF will put the truck into a mode that ignores the sensor (what I do to get carbon buildup off the throttle plate).

Like Mike Said prior the Rotor bug is keyed to go on one way so it wont be the problem unless it is the wrong one or manufactured backwards.

Last edited by lesterl; 06-18-2008 at 08:40 PM.
Old 06-18-2008, 08:40 PM   #29
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Re: 1997 S-10 SS Vortec 4.3 Cranks, But No Start...

^^^ What they said. I don't believe it's getting fuel until they test for it.
Old 06-18-2008, 10:24 PM   #30
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Re: 1997 S-10 SS Vortec 4.3 Cranks, But No Start...

Taking the information from here, here is what we have done so far:

- Starting Fluid, not work.

- Can't really smell gas from the tail pipe while cranking, but can smell starting fluid.

- Fuel Pressure under cranking is 63-65psi, and settles back to 59-60 when not cranking, slowly going to 54-55 and stopping there.

- Good grounds on C17 and A23

- Tried swapping dizzy plugs for 1 and 3 (the ones that got it to pop last time), this time, it did nothing, even with starting fluid.

- Checked and cleaned the EGR pintle, and connector.

We ran out of light (it stuck in driveway), and we are going to test for pulsing grounds on Thursday at PCM to check for injector drivers.

Will post our findings.

Last edited by azpyroguy; 06-18-2008 at 10:26 PM.
Old 06-18-2008, 10:59 PM   #31
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Re: 1997 S-10 SS Vortec 4.3 Cranks, But No Start...

Quote: Originally Posted by azpyroguy
Taking the information from here, here is what we have done so far:

- Starting Fluid, not work.

- Can't really smell gas from the tail pipe while cranking, but can smell starting fluid.

- Fuel Pressure under cranking is 63-65psi, and settles back to 59-60 when not cranking, slowly going to 54-55 and stopping there.

- Good grounds on C17 and A23

- Tried swapping dizzy plugs for 1 and 3 (the ones that got it to pop last time), this time, it did nothing, even with starting fluid.

- Checked and cleaned the EGR pintle, and connector.

We ran out of light (it stuck in driveway), and we are going to test for pulsing grounds on Thursday at PCM to check for injector drivers.

Will post our findings.
Dont worry about checking the injectors if the starting fluid didnt fire it off as it wouldnt be a fuel issue at this point. Also did you pull the connector off the Mass Airflo Sensor? If you didnt, how did you get the starting fluid in the Throttle body? If the ductwork is off the throttle body and the Mass Airflo isnt disconnected, I dont think she will work. (engine doesnt see any airflow) So if the starting fluid wont fire and it has spark, might consider the spark timing or compression. Have you pulled the Ignition module and had the parts store check it? I know you said you had spark, but it might not be timed right.

Last edited by lesterl; 06-18-2008 at 11:05 PM.
Old 06-18-2008, 11:04 PM   #32
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Re: 1997 S-10 SS Vortec 4.3 Cranks, But No Start...

Quote: Originally Posted by lesterl
Dont worry about checking the injectors if the starting fluid didnt fire it off as it wouldnt be a fuel issue at this point. Also did you pull the connector off the Mass Airflo Sensor? If you didnt, how did you get the starting fluid in the Throttle body? If the ductwork is off the throttle body and the Mass Airflo isnt disconnected, I dont think she will work. (engine doesnt see any airflow) So if the starting fluid wont fire and it has spark, might consider the spark timing or compression.
Oh.. sorry.. yes, I did pull the MAF connector off, we also pulled the airbox off the TBI and sprayed starting fluid directly into it... that did not work either.

I am begining to think that it might be the PCM not sending the proper spark timing....
Old 06-18-2008, 11:07 PM   #33
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Re: 1997 S-10 SS Vortec 4.3 Cranks, But No Start...

These CSFI engines won't start, or run, with the hat off, the MAF prevents that, just so you know.
Old 06-18-2008, 11:11 PM   #34
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Re: 1997 S-10 SS Vortec 4.3 Cranks, But No Start...

Run a quick check for spark again at any plug.
If you still get good repetitve spark (a couple of revolutions), then meter out a few plug wires to make sure that they are in the right place on the cap.
Try the starting fluid again. It should fire.

Edit: Forgot about the MAF sensor

Last edited by Bill Wheats; 06-18-2008 at 11:14 PM.
Old 06-18-2008, 11:14 PM   #35
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Re: 1997 S-10 SS Vortec 4.3 Cranks, But No Start...

Quote: Originally Posted by Bill Wheats
The starting fluid should have fired, or at least farted.
Run a quick check for spark again at any plug.
If you still get good repetitve spark (a couple of revolutions), then meter out a few plug wires to make sure that they are in the right place on the cap.
Try the starting fluid again. It should fire.
Ok, I will try this and MikDee idea in the morning....
Old 06-18-2008, 11:20 PM   #36
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Re: 1997 S-10 SS Vortec 4.3 Cranks, But No Start...

The truck will run with the MAF unhooked if the intake is taken off and also assuming that the thing runs in the first place, I have a 98 csfi that I clean the upper with the intake hose off you just have to unhook the MAF and he still wasnt getting it to fire, he forgot to post that he had pulled it, I suspect something in the ignition yanking the timing way out of place, might put a plug in each boot and check fire that way we know wires are good, but I would have ignition module in Dist tested.
Old 06-19-2008, 09:12 AM   #37
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Re: 1997 S-10 SS Vortec 4.3 Cranks, But No Start...

I second that motion to test the Ignition Control Module, but it's not in the dizzy. the ICM is mounted on a bracket next to the coil. Take it to any good auto parts store and they should test it for free. Click here to see what it looks like.
Old 06-19-2008, 09:33 AM   #38
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Re: 1997 S-10 SS Vortec 4.3 Cranks, But No Start...

I didn't even know the truck won't fire without the MAS being unplugged when you have the hat off. That could explain why when in the middle of winter my truck wouldn't start, and I sprayed the ether into the system that it didn't do anything. Would also explain how I managed to start the thing less than an hour later.

Anyway, be really careful with the clip for the plug that goes onto the ignition module. I had to remove mine last year for testing and almost as soon as I touched it, the stupid thing snapped off. I now have a zip tie holding the connector to the module. lol
Old 06-19-2008, 10:59 AM   #39
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Re: 1997 S-10 SS Vortec 4.3 Cranks, But No Start...

Duct tape and tie wraps! We can fix anything that ain't broke yet!
Old 06-19-2008, 11:18 AM   #40
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Re: 1997 S-10 SS Vortec 4.3 Cranks, But No Start...

Quote: Originally Posted by Yogi
I second that motion to test the Ignition Control Module, but it's not in the dizzy. the ICM is mounted on a bracket next to the coil. Take it to any good auto parts store and they should test it for free. Click here to see what it looks like.
They have oreillys, autozone, and advanced auto parts here, think they can test it?
Old 06-19-2008, 11:21 AM   #41
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Re: 1997 S-10 SS Vortec 4.3 Cranks, But No Start...

Quote: Originally Posted by azpyroguy
They have oreillys, autozone, and advanced auto parts here, think they can test it?
Yes. Try O'Reilly's first.

When you go to reinstall it you will need some heat sink compound to go between the ICM and its heat sink. Clean both surfaces with rubbing alcohol or brake cleaner. Gently scrape any residue off that does not come off with cleaner. Apply a thin layer of compound to the ICM b4 reinstallation.

Last edited by Yogi; 06-19-2008 at 11:26 AM.
Old 06-19-2008, 01:02 PM   #42
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Re: 1997 S-10 SS Vortec 4.3 Cranks, But No Start...

Quote: Originally Posted by Yogi
Yes. Try O'Reilly's first.

When you go to reinstall it you will need some heat sink compound to go between the ICM and its heat sink. Clean both surfaces with rubbing alcohol or brake cleaner. Gently scrape any residue off that does not come off with cleaner. Apply a thin layer of compound to the ICM b4 reinstallation.

The ICM tested good, so I resassembled it with compound, and put dielectric grease on the connectors.

I also tested it by disconnecting and bypassing the MAS and spraying starting fluid directly into the hat, while I had someone cranking.

Nothing has worked.

I would say that we are down to the PCM, or the spider being bad... but even if the spider was bad, it SHOULD fire or at least fart for a sec... there is nothing left other than compression... but it would be extreemly unlikely that all cylinders would lose compression.
Old 06-19-2008, 01:20 PM   #43
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Re: 1997 S-10 SS Vortec 4.3 Cranks, But No Start...

In light of all that you've done, I feel that you have a bad PCM.
Old 06-19-2008, 02:27 PM   #44
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Re: 1997 S-10 SS Vortec 4.3 Cranks, But No Start...

Quote: Originally Posted by Yogi
In light of all that you've done, I feel that you have a bad PCM.

I just talked to Jesse @ Wait4mePerformance, and he saids its rare that the PCM goes bad... but also mentioned that it should have fired with starting fluid, as that bypasses the fueling system essentially, and would rule out the spider being bad.

I know that if we tow it to the dealer to have them test it, they are going to hit him couple hundred to diagnose it....

I would say that I am leaning towards the computer... $75 for a OEM one, and $160 for a performance one...

I am at a loss here...
Old 06-19-2008, 02:28 PM   #45
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Re: 1997 S-10 SS Vortec 4.3 Cranks, But No Start...

Quote: Originally Posted by Yogi
In light of all that you've done, I feel that you have a bad PCM.

I just talked to Jesse @ Wait4mePerformance, and he saids its rare that the PCM goes bad... but also mentioned that it should have fired with starting fluid, as that bypasses the fueling system essentially, and would rule out the spider being bad.

I know that if we tow it to the dealer to have them test it, they are going to hit him couple hundred to diagnose it....

I would say that I am leaning towards the computer... $75 for a OEM one, and $160 for a performance one...

I am at a loss here...
Old 06-19-2008, 02:34 PM   #46
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Re: 1997 S-10 SS Vortec 4.3 Cranks, But No Start...

Bill, Yes, good point, test for spark at the plugs, if it hasn't been done 1st? and please recheck the firing order on the cap.

Yogi, Good point about where the the ignition control module is located, and to check it, my older trucks had it in the Dizzy.

Also my 96' Vortec Sonoma wouldn't start with starting fluid, with the hat off, but as soon as I put it on it would.

lesterl, Is that the trick with these trucks, unplug the MAF sensor, & it should start?
Old 06-19-2008, 02:53 PM   #47
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Re: 1997 S-10 SS Vortec 4.3 Cranks, But No Start...

The only things that you haven't replaced are the MAF, MAP, the spider and of course the PCM. I don't see any of those, except for the PCM, interfering with a start on starting fluid. You also haven't replaced the coil, but you say it has a strong spark. The only other possibility is a broken wire or a bad connection.

Have you checked all of your grounds yet?

Try unplugging and replugging the PCM connections.

Look over the harness for any wear and tear that could cause a broken wire - especially the part that crosses over the back of the motor.

I can't understand how you can see a strong spark at the plugs but it won't fire on starting fluid?

I'm grasping at straws here. If you can't find any problems in the areas above, I feel that it has to be the PCM.
Old 06-19-2008, 03:33 PM   #48
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Re: 1997 S-10 SS Vortec 4.3 Cranks, But No Start...

MAP sensor will not cause a no start according to the manuals. The PCM will substitute a reading in the event of a trouble situation. (well, that's what the big blue book says anyway)

Not sure what is close by, but I just picked up a used PCM for $17 that I will be sending to W4M soon. The service number is different on mine but I'll be getting it completely re-programmed. If you get one with the same service number it should plug in, but may run like crap. (need to do a crank relearn at least)
Old 06-19-2008, 03:59 PM   #49
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Re: 1997 S-10 SS Vortec 4.3 Cranks, But No Start...

im sorry...S10 ss?

thought those were V8s
Old 06-19-2008, 04:00 PM   #50
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Re: 1997 S-10 SS Vortec 4.3 Cranks, But No Start...

Nope. V6's.
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