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Rebuilding Your GM V6 60 Degree Engine

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Old 04-23-2010, 01:17 PM   #1
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Rebuilding Your GM V6 60 Degree Engine

Saw what looks like a nifty little book on Amazon. Have any of you guys ever read it? From what I've seen of it's reviews and things, it's relatively highly praised. And once again, some folks called it "a fantastic engine" haha. I love my 2.8!!!

http://www.amazon.com/Rebuild-Degree...e=UTF8&s=books

What do you guys think?
Old 04-23-2010, 06:29 PM   #2
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Re: Rebuilding Your GM V6 60 Degree Engine

high praised and priced $80
Old 04-23-2010, 11:16 PM   #3
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Re: Rebuilding Your GM V6 60 Degree Engine

Quote: Originally Posted by leprechaun1874
high praised and priced $80
Ouch! With all the vehicles these came in, you can find any info you need for free on the net. Camaro forums, s-series forums, grand ams, corsicas etc.
Old 04-23-2010, 11:17 PM   #4
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Re: Rebuilding Your GM V6 60 Degree Engine

Not worth the price, especially at $80.

I might pay $20 for a copy if I was to come across one.

Yes, I've had a copy in hand, wasn't impressed with it at all.
Old 04-23-2010, 11:44 PM   #5
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Re: Rebuilding Your GM V6 60 Degree Engine

Hmmm, I've heard nothing but good things about it, yeah the price tag is steep.

Why do you feel the way you do about it Raven?
(Side note: Did you do a standalone ECU for your franken60? What tuning software did you run? What ECU?)
Old 04-24-2010, 07:14 AM   #6
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Re: Rebuilding Your GM V6 60 Degree Engine

All the information that is in that book can be found or free or cheap in other repair manuals, such as Haynes or Chilton's or GM repair manuals, as well as on websites. It's basic rebuild specs, no hot rodding, or special tricks, just basic as pulled from GM's repair manuals tolerances and rebuilding specs.

The GM performance manual is worth more than that book IMO, since it has actual information on increasing output, and little tips and tricks on what to prep on the block and crank, even if you're not going for max power.

The ECM in my truck was a stock Delco '7730, that was using a MEMCAL from a turbo Grand Prix, unfortunatly, that was long before I got into tuning, so it was just the stock programming and because of that never really had it's full potential realized.
Old 04-24-2010, 01:53 PM   #7
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Re: Rebuilding Your GM V6 60 Degree Engine

Quote: Originally Posted by The_Raven
All the information that is in that book can be found or free or cheap in other repair manuals, such as Haynes or Chilton's or GM repair manuals, as well as on websites. It's basic rebuild specs, no hot rodding, or special tricks, just basic as pulled from GM's repair manuals tolerances and rebuilding specs.

The GM performance manual is worth more than that book IMO, since it has actual information on increasing output, and little tips and tricks on what to prep on the block and crank, even if you're not going for max power.

The ECM in my truck was a stock Delco '7730, that was using a MEMCAL from a turbo Grand Prix, unfortunatly, that was long before I got into tuning, so it was just the stock programming and because of that never really had it's full potential realized.
Is there a GM performance manual JUST FOR 60degV6's? If so, could you maybe point me in the right direction?

I was thinking about going with the Holley commander 950 for my ECU...had any experience? Or maybe using megasquirt...could megasquirt be setup for boost referencing on the stock ECUs?
Old 04-24-2010, 02:29 PM   #8
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Re: Rebuilding Your GM V6 60 Degree Engine

No, there were, back in the '80s GM Perfomance books put out that had recipes and proven methods to increase the power of some of the GM engines, all the way from the 1.8L OHV, to the BBCs. the 660 was included in the 1987 release. In fact the 660 was what was pictured on the front cover, with a Potter fuel injection manifold adorning the top.

I'm not sure you understand what Megasquirt is....

To use the Megasquirt ECU, would replace the entire OEM ECM in the case of these trucks.

I prefer Delco ECMs, since they seem to be more robust, I've only had 1 true ECM failure in about 15 or 17 years or driving and modifying my own GMs. The Delco ECM, especially when you choose a later OBD1 ECM does a lot more and is more capable IMO than any MS to date.

I have looked at MS a number of times, to see if I could use it for any of my projects and so far, other than the MicroSquirt in fuel control only mode on my bike, I haven't found a use, and even then I might try to use a '7747 to run fuel only. Though I have seen ways to possibly control spark on teh bike engine too, by using the Delco ECM.

I did look at the Commander 950 ECU a number of years ago, but never pulled the trigger and bought one, I got into tuning the Delco ECM and haven't looked back.

Last edited by The_Raven; 04-24-2010 at 02:33 PM.
Old 04-24-2010, 08:26 PM   #9
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Re: Rebuilding Your GM V6 60 Degree Engine

Quote: Originally Posted by The_Raven
No, there were, back in the '80s GM Perfomance books put out that had recipes and proven methods to increase the power of some of the GM engines, all the way from the 1.8L OHV, to the BBCs. the 660 was included in the 1987 release. In fact the 660 was what was pictured on the front cover, with a Potter fuel injection manifold adorning the top.

I'm not sure you understand what Megasquirt is....

To use the Megasquirt ECU, would replace the entire OEM ECM in the case of these trucks.

I prefer Delco ECMs, since they seem to be more robust, I've only had 1 true ECM failure in about 15 or 17 years or driving and modifying my own GMs. The Delco ECM, especially when you choose a later OBD1 ECM does a lot more and is more capable IMO than any MS to date.

I have looked at MS a number of times, to see if I could use it for any of my projects and so far, other than the MicroSquirt in fuel control only mode on my bike, I haven't found a use, and even then I might try to use a '7747 to run fuel only. Though I have seen ways to possibly control spark on teh bike engine too, by using the Delco ECM.

I did look at the Commander 950 ECU a number of years ago, but never pulled the trigger and bought one, I got into tuning the Delco ECM and haven't looked back.
Damn, oh well.
Dude, yeah...wow. Don't know why I worded it that way, I guess I was confusing megasquirt with burning the ECU EEPROM(sp?) itself. Can you get the delco ECU's to read boost? or at least be able to reference it with proper fuel? What do you use to tune the delco's?
Old 04-24-2010, 09:38 PM   #10
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Re: Rebuilding Your GM V6 60 Degree Engine

Quote: Originally Posted by Bmanxer
Damn, oh well.
Dude, yeah...wow. Don't know why I worded it that way, I guess I was confusing megasquirt with burning the ECU EEPROM(sp?) itself. Can you get the delco ECU's to read boost? or at least be able to reference it with proper fuel? What do you use to tune the delco's?
Yes, Delco ECMs can read and react to boost, well certain ones anyway.

The Turbo Regal I have in my driveway (No not mine, it belongs to a friend of mine, I'm tuning it for him, or at least trying, so far, it's fighting me), has a stock ECM that reads boost, though wouldn't be my "go to ECM" to retro fit into another vehicle.

The Delco ECMs that I had/have in my Jimmy, and the Datsun, both read and react to boost quite well. One was a 1227730, that I was running a stock Turbo Grand Prix code in (AKA $8F), the Datsun has a 1227749 ECM, and I'm running an enhanced code called Code 59 ($59), which is an enhanced version of $58, that the Syclones, Typhoons and Turbo Sunbird/Grand Ams used.

To communicate with the ECM for datalogging and real time tuning with the right equipment to do so, I'm, using Tuner Pro RT. I'm using equipment from moates.net.

www.tunerpro.net
www.moates.net
www.code59.org
Old 04-25-2010, 04:32 PM   #11
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Re: Rebuilding Your GM V6 60 Degree Engine

Quote: Originally Posted by The_Raven
Yes, Delco ECMs can read and react to boost, well certain ones anyway.

The Turbo Regal I have in my driveway (No not mine, it belongs to a friend of mine, I'm tuning it for him, or at least trying, so far, it's fighting me), has a stock ECM that reads boost, though wouldn't be my "go to ECM" to retro fit into another vehicle.

The Delco ECMs that I had/have in my Jimmy, and the Datsun, both read and react to boost quite well. One was a 1227730, that I was running a stock Turbo Grand Prix code in (AKA $8F), the Datsun has a 1227749 ECM, and I'm running an enhanced code called Code 59 ($59), which is an enhanced version of $58, that the Syclones, Typhoons and Turbo Sunbird/Grand Ams used.

To communicate with the ECM for datalogging and real time tuning with the right equipment to do so, I'm, using Tuner Pro RT. I'm using equipment from moates.net.

www.tunerpro.net
www.moates.net
www.code59.org
SWEET! That's the kind of information I've been wanting to read up on and learn about. This should help me understand things a little bit better. I'd like to hopefully learn the ins and outs of tuning here over the course of the time I've got left in the navy. I'll be reading up on this stuff, thanks a lot man.
Old 04-25-2010, 05:47 PM   #12
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Re: Rebuilding Your GM V6 60 Degree Engine

No problem.

There's also a LOT of great information at thirdgen.org, in the DIY PROM section, that deals with more than just third gens. The basics of tuning seem to be universal across most GM ECMs so it's good to read.
Old 04-25-2010, 05:53 PM   #13
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Re: Rebuilding Your GM V6 60 Degree Engine

A bit off topic, but if you will Raven, say I was wanting to put a TPI 383 into my truck. What sort of ECU would I be looking for? I would think it would be difficult to locate the proper maps and tables for such a nonstandard engine such as that one...
And I'll check out thirdgen too. I ordered some books off amazon (lol I know I know...) about fuel injection and tuning to try and educate myself some more on the subject in my offtime during this deployment.

Last edited by Bmanxer; 04-25-2010 at 05:56 PM.
Old 04-25-2010, 06:10 PM   #14
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Re: Rebuilding Your GM V6 60 Degree Engine

Nothing wrong with buying books on EFI, I have a few myself. I'll get the titles for you if you really want some reference material.

The bin files or at least starting points for a TPI 383 would be extremely easy to find, that's a pretty common combination on the thirdgen site.

I would use a '7730 ECM with S_AUJP (an enhanced version of AUJP, which was the last bin released for the SD TPI F-body cars).
Old 04-25-2010, 06:16 PM   #15
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Re: Rebuilding Your GM V6 60 Degree Engine

Hmmm, browsing around...
Would putting the 4.3 throttle body bore, injectors, etc (whole assembly) give enough fuel for a 2.8 turbo? Or would I just simply be better off transplanting an intake, injectors, ecu out of a camaro?
Old 04-25-2010, 06:32 PM   #16
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Re: Rebuilding Your GM V6 60 Degree Engine

Quote: Originally Posted by The_Raven
Nothing wrong with buying books on EFI, I have a few myself. I'll get the titles for you if you really want some reference material.

The bin files or at least starting points for a TPI 383 would be extremely easy to find, that's a pretty common combination on the thirdgen site.

I would use a '7730 ECM with S_AUJP (an enhanced version of AUJP, which was the last bin released for the SD TPI F-body cars).
Yeah, I'd like to know if I hopefully got some of the ones that you have.

No kidding...kinda surprised me, I guess there's more of a market for DIY tuning than I expected. It seems a bit daunting at first (looking at all the numbers, I'm NOT a math guy at all) but, I'm sure with some more understanding I could figure it out. Basically in regards to my last post, I'm kicking around two ways of building my S10,
Either turbo the 2.8 in it now for the uniqueness and kind of self improvement thing by building up the motor (I really like this little motor, I beat the absolute snot out of it daily and it just keeps on running!!!) , or put in a 383...
Old 04-28-2010, 10:15 PM   #17
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Re: Rebuilding Your GM V6 60 Degree Engine

GM didn't sell any *turbo* cars / trucks with throttle body injection, so why invent a new wheel?
Go for port injection if you can afford it, IMO. The two ECMs and apps mentioned by the most knowledgeable Raven pretty much address your possible needs. Use the 122730 ECM (w/turbo gran prix chip) for distributorless apps, and 1227749 box (with syclone/typhoon code) for dissy apps makes it a paint-by-numbers wiring and sensor deal. The chips use different table lay-outs (masks), but there are definition files out there in the public domain for both, so you can tweak for your needs. BTW, When will you be off those boats for good ? 8-) .
Mikey - Cleveland, OH
Old 04-28-2010, 10:48 PM   #18
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Re: Rebuilding Your GM V6 60 Degree Engine

$58 (Sy/Ty/Sunbird code) can also be used with DIS applications, just takes some changes to timing offsets to get working. Same goes with $59, which is an expanded and updated version of $58.

I haven't had a chance to go through my books yet, been very busy with some other stuff.
Old 04-28-2010, 11:58 PM   #19
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Re: Rebuilding Your GM V6 60 Degree Engine

Mikey, thanks man! I was under the assumption I needed the 7730, so what vehicles does the other ECU come out of? That makes the picture just a little bit clearer! I'm piecing everything I need together on paper so that way I can design my build plan for the motor. I want to know in my head and on paper how it's all going to go down before the motor even comes out.
And thanks for asking! I get off of sea duty in November and go to shore duty, then I'm doing that for a few years and I'm out!

Raven, your help has seriously been amazing so far, thanks a lot!
Old 04-30-2010, 01:31 AM   #20
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Re: Rebuilding Your GM V6 60 Degree Engine

Bmanxer...off topic a bit, but for some reason, when I PM you it bounces back saying undeliverable???. Thinking about the 6AL ignition for my truck. You think it is worth it? I've replaced every single running part on my truck during my rebuild except for the distributor and associated components. Thinking about that swap, but wanted to see if someone else had done it. Thanks.
Old 04-30-2010, 03:10 PM   #21
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Re: Rebuilding Your GM V6 60 Degree Engine

Quote: Originally Posted by jimmykicker
Bmanxer...off topic a bit, but for some reason, when I PM you it bounces back saying undeliverable???. Thinking about the 6AL ignition for my truck. You think it is worth it? I've replaced every single running part on my truck during my rebuild except for the distributor and associated components. Thinking about that swap, but wanted to see if someone else had done it. Thanks.
Hm, that's strange, my inbox isn't even close to full...weird...ANYWAY...
I noticed that it smoothed out my idle and acceleration but as far as extra "oomph" I haven't really noticed any...my cruising mileage seemed to have gone up MAYBE 1 mpg, but it's hardly noticeable. I'd just replace my stock coil with a 45-50,000 volter GM type. If you decide to go the regular coil route MAKE SURE that you wire it up PROPERLY. In my younger days (16yo) I tried to wire one up and figured "meh, these two wires to this side....aaaaand these two wires to the negative siiiide and this wire to coil aaaaaaannnnd lets turn the key"...turns out my dumbass fried my ignition module and my truck had to get jimmy rigged by my mechanic to be able to get it to him before he could figure out what the problem was. I felt like such a dumbass. You can save the money you'd spend on one of those and purchase some true roller rocker arms for the same price and actually squeeze some extra ponies out of the motor. However upgraded GM coils are cheap and worth it, I'd go that route

Last edited by Bmanxer; 04-30-2010 at 03:12 PM.
Old 05-22-2010, 02:56 PM   #22
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Re: Rebuilding Your GM V6 60 Degree Engine

Just got my book in today and started reading, seems like a good base knowledge to establish myself with. Stay tuned.
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