Engine swap

TerryK · 09-27-2009, 03:17 PM

I have an 84' S-10 with a carbureted 2.8 V6. It blew a head gasket and since the engine is pretty tired I've decided to swap it with newer one. My question is, what is involved in installing a 1988 FI 2.8 in it's place, besides the normal changeover? Thanks in advance for any advice offered!

neo71665 · 09-27-2009, 05:30 PM

Are you trying to keep the factory carb or are you wanting to go all out?

If you're wanting to just swap the short block out thats easy.

If you are trying to gain FI and the serp belts you have a lil more headache. Your gonna have to swap out the wiring harness and ecm. Lucky enough both are cable driven speedos so you won't have much work there.

TerryK · 09-28-2009, 10:07 PM

Well, I'm open to ideas lol. I never thought of just swapping out the intake and using the carb, but the EFI would be nice. How much of the harness needs to be changed, just the under-hood or the whole thing?

AHH AIR · 09-28-2009, 10:11 PM

you would have to change the entire hareness i believe and put a newwer cluster in as well i think neo will correct me if im wrong

The_Raven · 09-28-2009, 10:42 PM

Quote: Originally Posted by AHH AIR

you would have to change the entire hareness i believe and put a newwer cluster in as well i think neo will correct me if im wrong

Please people, unless you know, don't reply.....

You don't need to change the entore harness, and the newer cluster won't fit in an '85 dash anyway....

You will need to add a few wires, that BTW are easy to add for the VSS, and add the VSS to the back of the custer.

There is already a location in the cluster for a check engine light, just need to add a pin to the connector, for this.

A hole will need to be cut in the firewall at the passenger side below the heater box.

there is also a few other wires, like "crank" and ignition, along with diagnostic plug wiring that will need to be added to the dash wiring. This can all be added by making a new simple harness that just has these connections. If your truck was a CCC (Computer Controlled Carb) truck, then you should already have most or all of these wires in the dash

Wiring diagrams will help out with the wires that need to be added.

Now this is the part I'm not 100% sure about, and that is the connector at the driver side firewall feed-through has at least one extra wire added, and that would be for the "crank" circuit. It's been a long time since I looked at my truck and the fuse panel (also an '85), so I don't recall if there was wiring in the dash harness and fuse block for the crank wire or not. I didn't use an S-series EFI harness for my swap, I went a different direction, that didn't require a "crank" wire.

You will need to add a fuel pump wire as well, and I strongly recommend swapping to an intake fuel pump, in my case I swapped to a newer tank that was also larger.

Go with the EFI.

TerryK · 10-02-2009, 09:14 PM

Thanks guys! The Raven: thanks a ton, you've cleared everything up.

Terry

Dukeboy320 · 10-04-2009, 04:52 PM

You should put in a 4.3 MORE POWER!!

neo71665 · 10-04-2009, 11:38 PM

Quote: Originally Posted by Dukeboy320

You should put in a 4.3 MORE POWER!!

Thanks for your worthless thread hijack now please go to the correct section

phaderus · 10-05-2009, 08:18 PM

I would be tempted to go with a GM crate engine. After-all, it supposed to be for Carbureted engines only. Then if I wasn't happy with that, I would think about the FI route. And you already have alot more displacement.

If I was absolute sure about a FI then I would tempted to use 3.4 camaro motor with 3400 top end. My Grand AM is rated around 195 horse and I love driving it. I would love to have it's motor in a my S10.

Just curious, if he goes with a 2.8 and FI, could he keep the same computer and piggyback with a MegasQuirt or other controller?

The_Raven · 10-05-2009, 09:20 PM

Quote: Originally Posted by phaderus

Just curious, if he goes with a 2.8 and FI, could he keep the same computer and piggyback with a MegasQuirt or other controller?

Why would he do that? Why would anyone do that.

A Mega Squirt alone could be used, or the OEM ECM alone can be used.

If you're thinking about tunability, I would and do use GM ECMs over Mega Squirt in every EFI conversion I've done.

The OEM ECM is tunable, and has features and such that Mega Squirt doesn't, which is why I choose the GM ECM over anything else, it's also fairly easy to tune with the right equipment.

phaderus · 10-05-2009, 11:07 PM

Quote: Originally Posted by The_Raven

Why would he do that? Why would anyone do that.

Good point, it was was a question, and it looks like I have an answer. Before I make a decision I always go through NUMEROUS different scenarios in my mind.

My brother died a few years ago, and he left me his 99 3400 Grand AM. Not necessarily the greatest car, but my brother loved it, and driving it makes me happy. I decided that I wanted to keep it going for ever. I then learned that some S10s shared the same block as my new Grand AM. I decided to buy a 6-60 S10 to learn all I could about engines. when my brother died the only thing that I had ever done was change oil. I bought a 87 4x4 s10 with no motor. I got it to run, "stage one," and have been lurking on various forums for years.

Now that I have the S10 running, albeit with some minor issues, I want to put a hybrid 6-60 motor in my truck and I have been wondering how to control it. I was think about the MegaSquirt because eventually I want to put a turbo on the Grand AM. I know my brother would have loved it! So I have been thinking of a mock build in my truck with hybrid 6-60. Then after "stage two," I then could work on "stage three": a turbo. After I do this on my truck I want to do the same for the Grand AM.

It is a long plan, but I have seen progress. I appreciate what you have done with your S10, and figured since I have read so many of your post, that I should share my story. Did not mean to high jack a thread.

If I was the author of the thread I would go with 3.4 crate; he has the perfect setup for it.

09-27-2009, 03:17 PM	#1
TerryK Registered User Age: 48 Join Date: Sep 2009 Posts: 7 Location: User is: OffLine	Engine swap I have an 84' S-10 with a carbureted 2.8 V6. It blew a head gasket and since the engine is pretty tired I've decided to swap it with newer one. My question is, what is involved in installing a 1988 FI 2.8 in it's place, besides the normal changeover? Thanks in advance for any advice offered!
	[Reply w/Quote]

09-27-2009, 05:30 PM	#2
neo71665 4x4 v6 blazer Age: 30 Join Date: Oct 2004 Posts: 5,339 Location: rison arkansas User is: OffLine	Re: Engine swap Are you trying to keep the factory carb or are you wanting to go all out? If you're wanting to just swap the short block out thats easy. If you are trying to gain FI and the serp belts you have a lil more headache. Your gonna have to swap out the wiring harness and ecm. Lucky enough both are cable driven speedos so you won't have much work there.
	[Reply w/Quote]

09-28-2009, 10:07 PM	#3
TerryK Registered User Age: 48 Join Date: Sep 2009 Posts: 7 Location: User is: OffLine	Re: Engine swap Well, I'm open to ideas lol. I never thought of just swapping out the intake and using the carb, but the EFI would be nice. How much of the harness needs to be changed, just the under-hood or the whole thing?
	[Reply w/Quote]

09-28-2009, 10:11 PM	#4
AHH AIR George Smith Age: 26 Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 689 Location: watervliet, mi User is: OffLine	Re: Engine swap you would have to change the entire hareness i believe and put a newwer cluster in as well i think neo will correct me if im wrong
	[Reply w/Quote]

09-28-2009, 10:42 PM	#5
The_Raven Registered User Age: 33 Join Date: Oct 2003 Posts: 1,107 Location: The Nest User is: OffLine	Re: Engine swap Quote: Originally Posted by AHH AIR you would have to change the entire hareness i believe and put a newwer cluster in as well i think neo will correct me if im wrong Please people, unless you know, don't reply..... You don't need to change the entore harness, and the newer cluster won't fit in an '85 dash anyway.... You will need to add a few wires, that BTW are easy to add for the VSS, and add the VSS to the back of the custer. There is already a location in the cluster for a check engine light, just need to add a pin to the connector, for this. A hole will need to be cut in the firewall at the passenger side below the heater box. there is also a few other wires, like "crank" and ignition, along with diagnostic plug wiring that will need to be added to the dash wiring. This can all be added by making a new simple harness that just has these connections. If your truck was a CCC (Computer Controlled Carb) truck, then you should already have most or all of these wires in the dash Wiring diagrams will help out with the wires that need to be added. Now this is the part I'm not 100% sure about, and that is the connector at the driver side firewall feed-through has at least one extra wire added, and that would be for the "crank" circuit. It's been a long time since I looked at my truck and the fuse panel (also an '85), so I don't recall if there was wiring in the dash harness and fuse block for the crank wire or not. I didn't use an S-series EFI harness for my swap, I went a different direction, that didn't require a "crank" wire. You will need to add a fuel pump wire as well, and I strongly recommend swapping to an intake fuel pump, in my case I swapped to a newer tank that was also larger. Go with the EFI.
	[Reply w/Quote]

10-02-2009, 09:14 PM	#6
TerryK Registered User Age: 48 Join Date: Sep 2009 Posts: 7 Location: User is: OffLine	Re: Engine swap Thanks guys! The Raven: thanks a ton, you've cleared everything up. Terry
	[Reply w/Quote]

10-04-2009, 04:52 PM	#7
Dukeboy320 BLKDOUT Join Date: Sep 2009 Posts: 282 Location: Heaven User is: OffLine	Re: Engine swap You should put in a 4.3 MORE POWER!!
	[Reply w/Quote]

10-04-2009, 11:38 PM	#8
neo71665 4x4 v6 blazer Age: 30 Join Date: Oct 2004 Posts: 5,339 Location: rison arkansas User is: OffLine	Re: Engine swap Quote: Originally Posted by Dukeboy320 You should put in a 4.3 MORE POWER!! Thanks for your worthless thread hijack now please go to the correct section
	[Reply w/Quote]

10-05-2009, 08:18 PM	#9
phaderus Registered User Join Date: Aug 2008 Posts: 27 Location: User is: Online	Re: Engine swap I would be tempted to go with a GM crate engine. After-all, it supposed to be for Carbureted engines only. Then if I wasn't happy with that, I would think about the FI route. And you already have alot more displacement. If I was absolute sure about a FI then I would tempted to use 3.4 camaro motor with 3400 top end. My Grand AM is rated around 195 horse and I love driving it. I would love to have it's motor in a my S10. Just curious, if he goes with a 2.8 and FI, could he keep the same computer and piggyback with a MegasQuirt or other controller?
	[Reply w/Quote]

10-05-2009, 09:20 PM	#10
The_Raven Registered User Age: 33 Join Date: Oct 2003 Posts: 1,107 Location: The Nest User is: OffLine	Re: Engine swap Quote: Originally Posted by phaderus Just curious, if he goes with a 2.8 and FI, could he keep the same computer and piggyback with a MegasQuirt or other controller? Why would he do that? Why would anyone do that. A Mega Squirt alone could be used, or the OEM ECM alone can be used. If you're thinking about tunability, I would and do use GM ECMs over Mega Squirt in every EFI conversion I've done. The OEM ECM is tunable, and has features and such that Mega Squirt doesn't, which is why I choose the GM ECM over anything else, it's also fairly easy to tune with the right equipment.
	[Reply w/Quote]

10-05-2009, 11:07 PM	#11
phaderus Registered User Join Date: Aug 2008 Posts: 27 Location: User is: Online	Re: Engine swap Quote: Originally Posted by The_Raven Why would he do that? Why would anyone do that. Good point, it was was a question, and it looks like I have an answer. Before I make a decision I always go through NUMEROUS different scenarios in my mind. My brother died a few years ago, and he left me his 99 3400 Grand AM. Not necessarily the greatest car, but my brother loved it, and driving it makes me happy. I decided that I wanted to keep it going for ever. I then learned that some S10s shared the same block as my new Grand AM. I decided to buy a 6-60 S10 to learn all I could about engines. when my brother died the only thing that I had ever done was change oil. I bought a 87 4x4 s10 with no motor. I got it to run, "stage one," and have been lurking on various forums for years. Now that I have the S10 running, albeit with some minor issues, I want to put a hybrid 6-60 motor in my truck and I have been wondering how to control it. I was think about the MegaSquirt because eventually I want to put a turbo on the Grand AM. I know my brother would have loved it! So I have been thinking of a mock build in my truck with hybrid 6-60. Then after "stage two," I then could work on "stage three": a turbo. After I do this on my truck I want to do the same for the Grand AM. It is a long plan, but I have seen progress. I appreciate what you have done with your S10, and figured since I have read so many of your post, that I should share my story. Did not mean to high jack a thread. If I was the author of the thread I would go with 3.4 crate; he has the perfect setup for it.
	[Reply w/Quote]