Turbo F.A.Q.

GoofyGuy · 08-16-2004, 11:33 PM

Stinky is the man to go to for the 94-97 trucks for the turbo setup he is very helpful and put together this with 325c2 and myself. For the 98+ myself and 325c2 can help in those areas.

A special thanks to 325c2, Stinky, Adler, and Gutless for information on fuel managment and assembiles of a turbo setup.

Turbo frequently asked questions

Q. Can I turbo charge my 2.2l S-10?
A. yes, but you don’t have too many options

Q. what are my options?
A. You could go with the www.turbos-10.com turbo kit that is expensive, but it does work. There are at least two kits in development, both with unknown release dates. The final option is to make something yourself.

Q. Is it safe to turbo my engine?
A. A turbocharger puts more strain on your engine so it increases wear, but with the right tuning, proper maintenance and reasonable amounts of boost you can expect your engine to last a long time.

Q. What is the right tuning?
A. You want to have an air fuel ratio of about 13:1 and the timing has to be set so that you don’t get any detonation. The perfect air to fuel ratio is 14.3 to 1, but a turbo charged engine needs more fuel to prevent detonation. There are a few ways to add fuel, the easiest being a rising rate fmu. A better way is to get a piggyback computer (greddy e-manage, perfect power smt6) there are other more expensive ways to do it, but I am not going to get into it. I also recommend looking into some additional or higher flowing injector, but it is not required.

Q. What turbos can I use?
A. Any turbo will work, but you need to find one that fits the best. Mitsubishi turbos are readily available and they are affordable. The 14b works well for lower boost levels and the 16g is better for higher levels of boost. The turbonetics T3 super 60 and the Garrett GT28RS are also good turbos for this engine.

Q. Do I need an intercooler
A. You do not need an intercooler, but it is a good idea. This is to cool the compressed air to prevent detonation. Some of you other options are water or alcohol injection.

Q. Do I need a blow off valve?
A. You do not need one but it helps extend the life of the turbo.

Some cavaliers have the same engine but the turbo kits will not fit in our trucks.

You can find parts at junk yards and ebay but you are taking a risk when you buy used parts. There are many stores that sell new parts, so do a search and find the best deals.

Full basic list to make a remote turbo setup to keep the A/C

1) Turbo of your choice, can be small can be big such as a 14b or a t3/t4 depending on where you want your power band at and how much you plan on boosting.

2) Fuel Managment, For low boost you can use a FMU safely to say 9-10 psi on a daily driver without to many problems, on the pre 98 trucks an inline pump is reccomended but not required to keep things up in pressure. Or you can use aftermarket controller and extra injectors. Depends on how much boost and you budget no how far you go with that setup.

3) Flanges, you will need lots of flanges ones for both the inlet/outlet of the turbo and ones to fit your cat and your header so create the up and downpipes

4) Blow off Valve, this is not completly needed but will prolong the life of your turbo and keep boost when shifting gears.

5) Intercooler, this one I find debatable to its requirment I havent ran one on my daily driver and ran up to 200hp to the wheels without ping, detonation, or any other problems but some will say its absolute. This is to keep the air cool going into the motor to help ward off unwanted detonation.

6) Tubing, you will need lots of it to do it yourself, you need to make a up and downpipe which are the pipes that take the exhaust from the header to the turbo, and from the turbo to the cat location. You need charge pipes which are the pipes that run from the turbo to the motor or the intercooler to the motor.

7) Electric fan, on some of the setups like Stinky's it does not seem to need it but on the 98+ motors the fan is where the turbo is going to sit so you gotta get rid of the motor driven.

8) Couplings, these are to attach the charge pipes and intercooler and the bov mount together. Reducers are in this same catagory in the need to change sizes from the Throttle body which is 2.75 inch inside diameter to say 2 inch outside diamater tubing for your charge pipes.

9) Vac lines and Tees, you need to run a vac/boost line to the Blow off Valve, boost gauge, FMU, and wastegate. These all use signal to refrence boost or vacuum to gauge eihter how much boost you make to how much fuel to add or when to open to relive the excess gasses.

10) Wastegate, these are what makes you boost to a certain pressure. Without one you will create boost till you blow the engine. They can be either internal or external. Internal are easier to use in the fact that they are attached directly to the turbo and need less modification to use. External use extra tubing to run from the turbo back into the exhaust path down the line.

11) Gauges, Boost, A/F, Exhasut temp are what I reccomend. these are to keep track of all the happenings of your motor and can be used to tune the system and keep your truck running forever or till you over boost.

12) Gaskets, because no body likes exhasut leaks.

13) Header Wrap, keep the heat in the tubing and out of the engine bay much nicer than cooking all your electronics and wires and for you 98+ guys warping the intake manifold.

14) Clamps, you will need them for small hoses such as fuel lines to big ones like your charge pipes. Get lots and they are cheap so dont get just enough get more than enough just in case.

15) Alcohol, either for the creation process or instal of a kit its almost required not to loose your mind in all the pipes and loose ends when you get near the end.

All the obvious needs such as a bender or prebent tubing, welder, tools, imagination, and lots of time. This is not a time to half ass this. To make something reliable you need to take your time and make it to last. Dont use cheap piping or low quality hoses use what will not have to be changed over the course of the time you plan to have the truck. Make it look pleasing as well as functional.

For the non Flex Fuel Guys
You have to have an inline pump to run an FMU over 4psi.At 8 psi your looking at almost 120psi+ in the fuel rail with a 10:1 ratio.The pumps in our trucks(thats 94+: not including flex fuel) are rated for 50psi which means when the pressure hits 50psi the pump opens its pressure release valve.Plus if you go over 8psi(not including flex fuel) with that pressur your injectors will stick.The place i bought my pump from told me to stop smoking crack when i told him i was going to run 10psi on stock injectors with an FMU

I recomend mounting it after the filter.I used the Painless Wiring fuel relay kit($30 from Jeg's or Summit) to make the install clean and simple and a Walboro GSL-394 inline rated at 190lph(60gallons) with a 95psi rating.For the FMU's :6-8psi on stock injectors max and you will need a pump with at least a 90psi rating.If you want to run over 8psi on an FMU you will want to upgrade the injectors so that you can decrease the FMU ratio to reduce the fuel pressure.You don't want to go over 100psi.

Stinky · 08-17-2004, 06:02 PM

Kudos Goofy!This will get the guys on the right track.Also don't forget the turbocharges bible"Maximum Boost" by Corky Bell.It will make your head spin at first but enlightenment will come.

V8TurboGMC · 08-29-2004, 02:22 PM

So,
If I have a 98' 2.2 with a turbo and run 8 psi, what will the computer do as far as timing goes? I plan in buying a 98+ truck because I have a t3/t4 BB turbo sitting at my shop with a .63 A/R exhaust housing with a stage 5 trubine wheel and a 62-1 on the compressor side. I just wan to run 8 psi (this is a work truck). So back to my first question whats up with the timing? Also do these trucks use a MAF? If so do you blow through it of draw through?

Thanks,
Kyle~

Stinky · 08-29-2004, 09:50 PM

The computer actually does fine weirdly enough.Obvoiusly its blow through,dude its fuel injected.These trucks use MAP sensors and are not as tempermental as MAF equiped vehicles.

BigRey · 08-29-2004, 10:49 PM

Non-MAF are also known as speed density.

GoofyGuy · 09-03-2004, 11:37 PM

Amazing enough like Stinky pointed out until you break a bar 14.7 the computer can compensate all the ingition and fuel problems as they arise. I was pleased with all my setups and never had any problems no smoke all have perfect compression still and never heard a knock or ping. If you get a 2.2 the kits on the 98+ are pretty straight forward and easy just time consuming. By the Way mines still on the Market

325c2 · 09-05-2004, 03:01 PM

I don't know about the flex fuel models, but my truck can not read boost. The map sensor puts out 4.9X volts from 0 up to any amount of boost. the reason that it doesn't knock is that it has a knock sensor. the compter does not take care of the fuel problems, if it did you would not need the fmu.

Stinky · 09-05-2004, 06:15 PM

The 94-97 doesn't read boost either but the IAT when used in the charge pipe will compensate with some retard in timing.Hot air=pulled timing.

2.2L Sonoma · 11-10-2004, 08:01 PM

Ive heard of guys putting on 28lb injectors (we have 14lb right?) when they slap on a turbo and only having the FMU around to control idle fuel management so it doesnt flood...based on the first post here...all i would have to do for my 99 sonoma fuel is nothing but FMU and no new pump? Nice FAQ section guys...

Thanks, A.J.

Stinky · 11-10-2004, 10:13 PM

Quote: Originally Posted by 2.2L Sonoma

Ive heard of guys putting on 28lb injectors (we have 14lb right?) when they slap on a turbo and only having the FMU around to control idle fuel management so it doesnt flood...based on the first post here...all i would have to do for my 99 sonoma fuel is nothing but FMU and no new pump? Nice FAQ section guys...

Thanks, A.J.

You can't just put in bigger injectors without some kind of ECU/electronic fuel controller to lean them out for idle.The FMU doesn't control the injectors,it raises fuel pressure.If you run your stock injectors(or at max 10% bigger) and an FMU you will need an inline pump with a pressure rating of a minium of 90 psi.

2.2L Sonoma · 11-10-2004, 11:47 PM

Quote: Originally Posted by Stinky

If you run your stock injectors(or at max 10% bigger) and an FMU you will need an inline pump with a pressure rating of a minium of 90 psi.

So i will need a new inline pump regardless of the injectors? I thought the pumps were only needed on the 97 and down motors....ive got the vortec 2200...lol i am really new to the idea of a turbo so im trying to learn as much as i can. One of my buddies turboed a neon and he said he would help me set it up in my car...but doesnt know jack about our motors...thanks for the help man!

A.J.

2.2L Sonoma · 11-11-2004, 11:00 AM

one more thing...does 8 psi sound right for the stock internals on this motor? or can i go higher than that?...j/w

325c2 · 11-15-2004, 03:29 PM

I am running 8psi and its still running strong, but i don't have the fuel to turn the boost up. I think that it is the max that you can go with the stock fuel pump, but i might have some other restriction in the fuel system that i haven't found.

Stinky · 11-15-2004, 06:58 PM

The problem is on the vehicles that don't have flex fuel is the pumps are rated at 50psi.Which means once the fuel pressure passes 50psi the pump's purge valve starts to open to release some of the fuel pressure.I don't know about Vortech FMU's but the Cartech one i have demands you use a pump with a minium pressure rating of 90psi.325c2 have you checked your A/F ratio between 7-8psi?

325c2 · 11-15-2004, 07:14 PM

i just have the reading off of the o2 sensor so it isn't very accurate, but it says it is around 14:1 and I want it to be 13:1 which would read full rich on that sensor. i plan on getting it on a dyno with a wideband o2 sensor some time in the near future. i just need to hook up the extra injector and get a new pump.

hercamer · 11-25-2004, 01:54 PM

How do you tell if you have a flex fuel? Is flex fuel only in 98+. I have a 97 2.2 that I am thinking about turboing during my winter break from college. If I just want to run 6-8 PSI boost do I need to do anything to my ECU or anyother electronics like get a fuel managment system, also how where did you guys install your feed oil lines? I know that one goes to the oil pan but how about the other? I have read on the internet that there are kits for relocating the oil filter and using this as a feed line, thanks for any suggestions.

Stinky · 11-26-2004, 02:06 PM

Quote: Originally Posted by hercamer

How do you tell if you have a flex fuel? Is flex fuel only in 98+. I have a 97 2.2 that I am thinking about turboing during my winter break from college. If I just want to run 6-8 PSI boost do I need to do anything to my ECU or anyother electronics like get a fuel managment system, also how where did you guys install your feed oil lines? I know that one goes to the oil pan but how about the other? I have read on the internet that there are kits for relocating the oil filter and using this as a feed line, thanks for any suggestions.

The flex fuel was offered in the 98+ 2.2's so you definatly don't have it.I tapped my oil feed off the oil pressure sender unit.There is a tap above the oil filter you can use as well.You could get away with using a FMU and the MSD DIS ll with boost programable retard.Its listed as the "programable" unit.

superfrigincow · 11-28-2004, 04:42 PM

http://www.scdyne.com/fuelkit/index.html

fuel problem fixed with a part made for a saturn. It comes with everthing needed to install and use execpt a pump. Just install this near the torottle body and tune it in.

Stinky · 11-28-2004, 06:04 PM

Yeah there is a guy on the forum using the SDS MF-2 on his supercharged truck for his fuel delivery.I had planned on doing the same thing but our manifolds are a dry intake system so i was alittle conserned with what would happen to the MAP sensor after it got saturated with gas.

99Super-10 · 11-30-2004, 10:20 PM

Just something to throw out there. Are you all sure the stock fuel pump in our trucks only flow 50 psi at max. This is non-flex, and 98 or newer. I surely dont have flex and at 8 pounds and a fmu I just barely leaned out. Mind you i've been straped for cash for awhile, but i've been slowly adding to the mix. I originaly thought e-manage was the easy out out of management problems. I was wrong, sorta, it takes alot of extras,a lot of trial and error, and an extensive amount of money to tune just right. I've dug a hole I can barely afford to get out of. My knowledge has surpassed my income. My trucks been down for nearly a year due to mostly fuel manegment and I'm really fed up with it. Everytime I buy something new, I encounter a new stumbling block. I will beat this motor before it beats me.

Well, I got distracted. Sorry. Back to the issue. I'm positive the stock fuel pump, 98+ non-flex, flows a helluva lot more than 50 psi. I'm missing the exact figure here but at idle i believe we sit at 36-42 psi. Theres no way 50 is the max. And as a reminder to anyone interested in turbocharging, keep it under 8 pounds or suffer.

Stinky · 11-30-2004, 11:14 PM

I know for an absolute fact.The max psi rating has to do with the purge valve opening.It doesn't mean you still can't have 60-70 psi in the fuel rail,it just won't be constant.Especially under W.O.T. Call any place that has a knowledable staff(Vortech,Turbonetics...) and explain to them what your doing and see the reaction you get.I have been treated like i am borderline retarded many times talking to these guys in my "quest for knowledge"

Even the Cartech FMU i bought and from talking to people from the company explicitly state you have to use a high pressur pump.Cartech recomends a 90 PSI rated pump or higher.Are you datalogging with a wideband O2 to determine your air/fuel ratio?These guys told me i need to be around 12:1 A/F at w.o.t I garentee once you get a different pump it will be a whole different story.Yeah i did the Ebay thing with my Greddy stuff.If i had top feed injectors it would be a different story but still a pain in the ass due to lack of real support.Put that money straight into my WRX!

baddisintegra · 12-23-2004, 11:30 PM

wuddup fellas, i am soon to be getting a s10 ( summertime) i am looking towards the xtreme but not to sure yet, anyhoo i am a turbo fan...i got a se-r that will soon be turbo...my question is how is the bottom block of the 2.2L motor built? is it open deck like a Honda motor is, or is it closed deck like Nissans are ( better for the boost) and also wut type of compression does the bottom end come with? pretty much wut i wanna know is wut kind of power will the 2.2L be capable of without doin intrenal wokr to the block?

Stinky · 12-24-2004, 10:10 AM

Quote: Originally Posted by baddisintegra

wuddup fellas, i am soon to be getting a s10 ( summertime) i am looking towards the xtreme but not to sure yet, anyhoo i am a turbo fan...i got a se-r that will soon be turbo...my question is how is the bottom block of the 2.2L motor built? is it open deck like a Honda motor is, or is it closed deck like Nissans are ( better for the boost) and also wut type of compression does the bottom end come with? pretty much wut i wanna know is wut kind of power will the 2.2L be capable of without doin intrenal wokr to the block?

unfortunatly its open deck(poo-poo) so for anybody that wants to go forced induction i would not bore the block out to keep the cylinder walls as thick as possible.They run about a 8.8:1 copression which for low boost is great.I would go with a 9:1(since aftermarket piston go from 8.5:1-9:1).That will get the truck moving "off boost".Most guys have run about 8-10 PSI on stock internal but this will all depend on your tuning(keeping detonation down/retarding timing properly)

superfrigincow · 12-26-2004, 10:10 PM

it uses a up pipe that comes off the stock or ALs header to the front of the engine. I have installed a few of those kits myself with goofy a few on his truck one on mine and the kits are 100% all the parts. I had mine for about 40k before I had other plans. As for a daily driver I used it for a frigin delivery truck and it still runs great with the turbo on it.

superfrigincow · 12-26-2004, 10:12 PM

also I wouldnt push the stock motor over 14psi intercooled. 2 reasons the rods will break at 250 hp and 14psi will bring you around 230. And over 1 bar 14.7 psi the engine drops into limp mode and then you have nothing.

rantz and raves · 12-31-2004, 03:46 AM

Quote: Originally Posted by superfrigincow

it uses a up pipe that comes off the stock or ALs header to the front of the engine. I have installed a few of those kits myself with goofy a few on his truck one on mine and the kits are 100% all the parts. I had mine for about 40k before I had other plans. As for a daily driver I used it for a frigin delivery truck and it still runs great with the turbo on it.

what should i do to my motor in order to prepare it for a turbo? any seals or w/e? i'm good about the oil changes and i'm in the GP for the als header now. got the exhaust and intake and TB. anything else? do you think i'd be fine with 118k miles?

Stinky · 12-31-2004, 09:40 AM

Quote: Originally Posted by rantz and raves

what should i do to my motor in order to prepare it for a turbo? any seals or w/e? i'm good about the oil changes and i'm in the GP for the als header now. got the exhaust and intake and TB. anything else? do you think i'd be fine with 118k miles?

Well i would go ahead and do the e-fan conersion if you haven't,but if you buy the turbos-10 kit i believe the fan is included.Change out the thermostat to a 180 and back flush the radiator and block.As long as you don't go over 10 psi on the stock internals(daily) you won't need forged internals.I would maybe add an oil cooler and start running synthetic once the turbo is on.

rantz and raves · 12-31-2004, 02:08 PM

Quote: Originally Posted by Stinky

Well i would go ahead and do the e-fan conersion if you haven't,but if you buy the turbos-10 kit i believe the fan is included.Change out the thermostat to a 180 and back flush the radiator and block.As long as you don't go over 10 psi on the stock internals(daily) you won't need forged internals.I would maybe add an oil cooler and start running synthetic once the turbo is on.

well i got the taurus efan in my closet right now... just waiting to find a day off and i already looked at the wiring kit at advanced auto parts... it was a preset one at like 185... ? and what good does it do to change my thermostat to 180?where is it set now?i understand flushing the radiator, but how do you flush the block? i'm running synthetic blend now so ok i'd just go up to synthetic. umm as for oil cooler is that a part or an additive?

Stinky · 12-31-2004, 09:04 PM

Quote: Originally Posted by rantz and raves

well i got the taurus efan in my closet right now... just waiting to find a day off and i already looked at the wiring kit at advanced auto parts... it was a preset one at like 185... ? and what good does it do to change my thermostat to 180?where is it set now?i understand flushing the radiator, but how do you flush the block? i'm running synthetic blend now so ok i'd just go up to synthetic. umm as for oil cooler is that a part or an additive?

The oil cooler is like a mini radiator for your oil.You just mount it in front of your radiator.The factory thermostat opens at 195 so the 180 will allow the engine to run alittle cooler.The purpose of this is because adding forced induction will cause the engine to run hotter especially when the engine wasn't designed for it.This is mostly for stop and go traffic.There is a drain plug in the block or you can use a Prestone back flush kit.This type of flush is done with the engine running to pump out all the crap in the radiator to drain out.

BigRey · 01-02-2005, 04:25 PM

I have some issues to clear up. (I'm kind of dense:P)
Stinky, you mentioned that you tapped into the oil pressure switch near the oil filter landing. Is this one of those threaded screws that you remove with an alan wrench? If so, the one that points up or to the side of the block?
Also, the wastegate mounting. I'm having a hard time comprehending the way this is set up. Is it plummed on the manifold side (to bypass the turbo) to the exhaust side of the turbo on an externally gated setup?
I'm starting to get my stuff together. So far I have no parts, just doing research! I have found everything I may need for an install of the custom kind, I just need to find a T3 to begin with.

hellbents10 · 01-03-2005, 01:02 AM

Well I don't know if anyone has said this yet. I would not shoot for a afr of 13:1 at WOT. 11.8:1 is the appropriate number. Some vehicle will make a few more hp going leaner but not worth it on the street. Soem forced induction vehicles will run harder going as rich as 11:1. Don't forget to go a few heat ranges colder on the plugs.

Stinky · 01-03-2005, 10:45 AM

Quote: Originally Posted by hellbents10

Well I don't know if anyone has said this yet. I would not shoot for a afr of 13:1 at WOT. 11.8:1 is the appropriate number. Some vehicle will make a few more hp going leaner but not worth it on the street. Soem forced induction vehicles will run harder going as rich as 11:1. Don't forget to go a few heat ranges colder on the plugs.

Yeah 13 is the max.My WRX from the factory at w.o.t. is 10:1!At this point the extra fuel is just used for antiknock/cooling.

Stinky · 01-03-2005, 10:56 AM

Quote: Originally Posted by BigRey

I have some issues to clear up. (I'm kind of dense:P)
Stinky, you mentioned that you tapped into the oil pressure switch near the oil filter landing. Is this one of those threaded screws that you remove with an alan wrench? If so, the one that points up or to the side of the block?
Also, the wastegate mounting. I'm having a hard time comprehending the way this is set up. Is it plummed on the manifold side (to bypass the turbo) to the exhaust side of the turbo on an externally gated setup?
I'm starting to get my stuff together. So far I have no parts, just doing research! I have found everything I may need for an install of the custom kind, I just need to find a T3 to begin with.

I actually t-ed off the oil pressure switch/sender itself.Later i noticed the small alan wrenched plugs like you mentioned and researced it.Thats where alot of the J body guys are tapping from.Yeah on an external wastegate you have to come of the manifold on the inlet side(can even use a pipe that extends alittle for clearance.)Then you have to come off the wategate outlet and plumb back into the turbo outlet pipe(discharge pipe) that goes to the muffler.It absolutley bypasses the turbo.It regulates the boost pressure by venting off the exhaust pressure turning the turbo.On race vehicles they don't even plumb back into the exhaust.The wastegate outlet is basicly just a little exhaust pipe.They don't do this on street vehicles,because of course,the wastegate outlet would sound just the same as running around with no muffler.If you use the JGS manifold kit i believe they can weld the wategate flange on for u if you use on of the wategates that they advertise flanges for.

BigRey · 01-04-2005, 12:39 AM

Thanks Stinky! I have done a lot of searching and in the past four days, I have probably learned more than I could have if my truck came with a turbo.
I was on the Summit online catalog last night and found that MSD makes a MAP sensor of either 1, 2, or 3 bar types. The item they had pictured looks just like the MAP on our trucks! (94-97) What kind of solution would this generate if the computer can now read boost?

Stinky · 01-04-2005, 04:52 PM

Quote: Originally Posted by BigRey

Thanks Stinky! I have done a lot of searching and in the past four days, I have probably learned more than I could have if my truck came with a turbo.
I was on the Summit online catalog last night and found that MSD makes a MAP sensor of either 1, 2, or 3 bar types. The item they had pictured looks just like the MAP on our trucks! (94-97) What kind of solution would this generate if the computer can now read boost?

Changing just the MAP sensor doesn't do anything.The ECU has to be programed to read boost.The problem is a 1,2 and 3 bar map sensor ALL use a voltage of 0-5volts so if you put a 2 bar map sensor on a vehicle whoes ECU wasnot programed/calibraded to use it you would have a f&cked up running truck!You can get a 2 and 3 bar MAP sensor through GM.They were used on the Buick GN's,Syclones,Typhoons,Sunbird & Skyhawk turbos...

BigRey · 01-04-2005, 11:50 PM

But even using a 2 or 3 bar map from gm would still yeild the same results as an after market unit if the computer is not calibrated for it. I guess some things never turn out right!

superfrigincow · 01-05-2005, 11:39 AM

unless your going over 14psi dont worry about it. Itll be easier to get aftermarket fuel system and not worry about what the ECU wants to do. Just keep it under 1bar and you will be fine.

Stinky · 01-05-2005, 03:44 PM

Quote: Originally Posted by BigRey

But even using a 2 or 3 bar map from gm would still yeild the same results as an after market unit if the computer is not calibrated for it. I guess some things never turn out right!

I just meant say like you got a stand alone,i think the GM 2 or 3 bar map would be cheaper than MSD.

Stinky · 01-05-2005, 03:52 PM

Quote: Originally Posted by superfrigincow

unless your going over 14psi dont worry about it. Itll be easier to get aftermarket fuel system and not worry about what the ECU wants to do. Just keep it under 1bar and you will be fine.

It doesn't mateer really what psi you run on a 1bar because even 2 psi registers.MAP sensors are rated in atmospheric pressure,not absolute pressure.0 vaccum=14.7psi atmospheric=1 bar.The earth naturally has 14.7psi of pressure in its atmosphere at all times due to gravity.Thats where they get"bar" from.A 2bar Map can read up to 14.7psi "absolute"(boost )or twice "atmospheric" pressure 29.4psi.So a 1bar MAP can only read up to 0 Vaccum/boost=14.7 atmospheric psi and 0psi absolute.

owiseone35 · 01-05-2005, 07:36 PM

I am doing a turbo setup in a 97 s10 and was wondering if anyone recommended a certain fuel injector and ecu combo. i am going to be running 8 - 12 lbs. of boost through this thing and i need recommendations for fuel pump as well. thanks. -Mike

also anyone ported and polished an intake for this truck? I am and was wondering if it was going to be worth my time. thanks again. -Mike

Stinky · 01-05-2005, 10:20 PM

The 94-97 limit you on aftermarket fuel injectors.The only way is to look into a Aquamist MF-2 (sub injectors) or to fabricate a top feed injector conversion.I have ported and polished my lower intake.My signature has a link that contains photos of the p&p job.

BigRey · 01-05-2005, 11:25 PM

The map sensor was just an idea.
I reinstalled my stock lower intake because the one I had ported killed low end torque under 3000 rpm's! I couldn't stand that and now it runs just fine with the RSM 59mm tb. Then again, I don't have a turbo.......yet.

owiseone35 · 01-06-2005, 04:13 PM

did you grind to far on the block side of the intake? I can see the rust line where i am able to go to, only about 1/8" around on block side and throttle body side can be helped a lot. how did you guys get the piping smoothed out? i am having trouble w/ that. -Mike

S-10Driver · 01-20-2005, 09:37 PM

i gotta question, doubt it'll work, but would this 2.0 L sunfire turbo manifold bolt up to our head? i bet teh steering shaft would be in teh way though, (stupid fwd cars *(^*^%^*(&^(*^) but it would be cool.

Stinky · 01-21-2005, 09:32 AM

It will mount up on the 94-97 heads,but yeah like you stated,right into the steering colum.

BigRey · 01-28-2005, 10:01 AM

You never know unless you try!

But yeah, like Stinky said.

Stinky · 01-29-2005, 09:54 AM

Quote: Originally Posted by BigRey

You never know unless you try!

But yeah, like Stinky said.

A couple of people have tried it.It would work if it could be flipped around and the turbo pointed up.You could try cutting the flanges off and make a jig using a exhaust gasket to make sure they are lined up,and then re-weld them back on.

BigRey · 01-29-2005, 09:38 PM

That's a lot of work to convert a log style manifold to fit under the hood of an S-10. I guess I like header style turbo manifolds for flow purposes, but if it works, it works!

finn2026 · 02-01-2005, 06:13 PM

Quote: Originally Posted by GoofyGuy

Stinky is the man to go to for the 94-97 trucks for the turbo setup he is very helpful and put together this with 325c2 and myself. For the 98+ myself and 325c2 can help in those areas.

A special thanks to 325c2, Stinky, Adler, and Gutless for information on fuel managment and assembiles of a turbo setup.

Turbo frequently asked questions

Q. Can I turbo charge my 2.2l S-10?
A. yes, but you don’t have too many options

Q. what are my options?
A. You could go with the www.turbos-10.com turbo kit that is expensive, but it does work. There are at least two kits in development, both with unknown release dates. The final option is to make something yourself.

Q. Is it safe to turbo my engine?
A. A turbocharger puts more strain on your engine so it increases wear, but with the right tuning, proper maintenance and reasonable amounts of boost you can expect your engine to last a long time.

Q. What is the right tuning?
A. You want to have an air fuel ratio of about 13:1 and the timing has to be set so that you don’t get any detonation. The perfect air to fuel ratio is 14.3 to 1, but a turbo charged engine needs more fuel to prevent detonation. There are a few ways to add fuel, the easiest being a rising rate fmu. A better way is to get a piggyback computer (greddy e-manage, perfect power smt6) there are other more expensive ways to do it, but I am not going to get into it. I also recommend looking into some additional or higher flowing injector, but it is not required.

Q. What turbos can I use?
A. Any turbo will work, but you need to find one that fits the best. Mitsubishi turbos are readily available and they are affordable. The 14b works well for lower boost levels and the 16g is better for higher levels of boost. The turbonetics T3 super 60 and the Garrett GT28RS are also good turbos for this engine.

Q. Do I need an intercooler
A. You do not need an intercooler, but it is a good idea. This is to cool the compressed air to prevent detonation. Some of you other options are water or alcohol injection.

Q. Do I need a blow off valve?
A. You do not need one but it helps extend the life of the turbo.

Some cavaliers have the same engine but the turbo kits will not fit in our trucks.

You can find parts at junk yards and ebay but you are taking a risk when you buy used parts. There are many stores that sell new parts, so do a search and find the best deals.

Full basic list to make a remote turbo setup to keep the A/C

1) Turbo of your choice, can be small can be big such as a 14b or a t3/t4 depending on where you want your power band at and how much you plan on boosting.

2) Fuel Managment, For low boost you can use a FMU safely to say 9-10 psi on a daily driver without to many problems, on the pre 98 trucks an inline pump is reccomended but not required to keep things up in pressure. Or you can use aftermarket controller and extra injectors. Depends on how much boost and you budget no how far you go with that setup.

3) Flanges, you will need lots of flanges ones for both the inlet/outlet of the turbo and ones to fit your cat and your header so create the up and downpipes

4) Blow off Valve, this is not completly needed but will prolong the life of your turbo and keep boost when shifting gears.

5) Intercooler, this one I find debatable to its requirment I havent ran one on my daily driver and ran up to 200hp to the wheels without ping, detonation, or any other problems but some will say its absolute. This is to keep the air cool going into the motor to help ward off unwanted detonation.

6) Tubing, you will need lots of it to do it yourself, you need to make a up and downpipe which are the pipes that take the exhaust from the header to the turbo, and from the turbo to the cat location. You need charge pipes which are the pipes that run from the turbo to the motor or the intercooler to the motor.

7) Electric fan, on some of the setups like Stinky's it does not seem to need it but on the 98+ motors the fan is where the turbo is going to sit so you gotta get rid of the motor driven.

8) Couplings, these are to attach the charge pipes and intercooler and the bov mount together. Reducers are in this same catagory in the need to change sizes from the Throttle body which is 2.75 inch inside diameter to say 2 inch outside diamater tubing for your charge pipes.

9) Vac lines and Tees, you need to run a vac/boost line to the Blow off Valve, boost gauge, FMU, and wastegate. These all use signal to refrence boost or vacuum to gauge eihter how much boost you make to how much fuel to add or when to open to relive the excess gasses.

10) Wastegate, these are what makes you boost to a certain pressure. Without one you will create boost till you blow the engine. They can be either internal or external. Internal are easier to use in the fact that they are attached directly to the turbo and need less modification to use. External use extra tubing to run from the turbo back into the exhaust path down the line.

11) Gauges, Boost, A/F, Exhasut temp are what I reccomend. these are to keep track of all the happenings of your motor and can be used to tune the system and keep your truck running forever or till you over boost.

12) Gaskets, because no body likes exhasut leaks.

13) Header Wrap, keep the heat in the tubing and out of the engine bay much nicer than cooking all your electronics and wires and for you 98+ guys warping the intake manifold.

14) Clamps, you will need them for small hoses such as fuel lines to big ones like your charge pipes. Get lots and they are cheap so dont get just enough get more than enough just in case.

15) Alcohol, either for the creation process or instal of a kit its almost required not to loose your mind in all the pipes and loose ends when you get near the end.

All the obvious needs such as a bender or prebent tubing, welder, tools, imagination, and lots of time. This is not a time to half ass this. To make something reliable you need to take your time and make it to last. Dont use cheap piping or low quality hoses use what will not have to be changed over the course of the time you plan to have the truck. Make it look pleasing as well as functional.

For the non Flex Fuel Guys
You have to have an inline pump to run an FMU over 4psi.At 8 psi your looking at almost 120psi+ in the fuel rail with a 10:1 ratio.The pumps in our trucks(thats 94+: not including flex fuel) are rated for 50psi which means when the pressure hits 50psi the pump opens its pressure release valve.Plus if you go over 8psi(not including flex fuel) with that pressur your injectors will stick.The place i bought my pump from told me to stop smoking crack when i told him i was going to run 10psi on stock injectors with an FMU

I recomend mounting it after the filter.I used the Painless Wiring fuel relay kit($30 from Jeg's or Summit) to make the install clean and simple and a Walboro GSL-394 inline rated at 190lph(60gallons) with a 95psi rating.For the FMU's :6-8psi on stock injectors max and you will need a pump with at least a 90psi rating.If you want to run over 8psi on an FMU you will want to upgrade the injectors so that you can decrease the FMU ratio to reduce the fuel pressure.You don't want to go over 100psi.

i have a kit for sale, full turbo kit. 206 HP at 6000 RPM. let me know if your interested.

BigRey · 02-15-2005, 09:59 PM

Ok, I got a dumb question. Where could an average person like me find a decent turbo for relativly cheap? I know it may be a simple question, but I wasn't just interested with buying from ebay. Are there alternatives to this search, or am I screwed?

08-16-2004, 11:33 PM	#1
GoofyGuy Pressurized 2.2 Member Age: 27 Join Date: May 2003 Posts: 3,235 Location: Springhill FL User is: OffLine	Turbo F.A.Q. Stinky is the man to go to for the 94-97 trucks for the turbo setup he is very helpful and put together this with 325c2 and myself. For the 98+ myself and 325c2 can help in those areas. A special thanks to 325c2, Stinky, Adler, and Gutless for information on fuel managment and assembiles of a turbo setup. Turbo frequently asked questions Q. Can I turbo charge my 2.2l S-10? A. yes, but you don’t have too many options Q. what are my options? A. You could go with the www.turbos-10.com turbo kit that is expensive, but it does work. There are at least two kits in development, both with unknown release dates. The final option is to make something yourself. Q. Is it safe to turbo my engine? A. A turbocharger puts more strain on your engine so it increases wear, but with the right tuning, proper maintenance and reasonable amounts of boost you can expect your engine to last a long time. Q. What is the right tuning? A. You want to have an air fuel ratio of about 13:1 and the timing has to be set so that you don’t get any detonation. The perfect air to fuel ratio is 14.3 to 1, but a turbo charged engine needs more fuel to prevent detonation. There are a few ways to add fuel, the easiest being a rising rate fmu. A better way is to get a piggyback computer (greddy e-manage, perfect power smt6) there are other more expensive ways to do it, but I am not going to get into it. I also recommend looking into some additional or higher flowing injector, but it is not required. Q. What turbos can I use? A. Any turbo will work, but you need to find one that fits the best. Mitsubishi turbos are readily available and they are affordable. The 14b works well for lower boost levels and the 16g is better for higher levels of boost. The turbonetics T3 super 60 and the Garrett GT28RS are also good turbos for this engine. Q. Do I need an intercooler A. You do not need an intercooler, but it is a good idea. This is to cool the compressed air to prevent detonation. Some of you other options are water or alcohol injection. Q. Do I need a blow off valve? A. You do not need one but it helps extend the life of the turbo. Some cavaliers have the same engine but the turbo kits will not fit in our trucks. You can find parts at junk yards and ebay but you are taking a risk when you buy used parts. There are many stores that sell new parts, so do a search and find the best deals. Full basic list to make a remote turbo setup to keep the A/C 1) Turbo of your choice, can be small can be big such as a 14b or a t3/t4 depending on where you want your power band at and how much you plan on boosting. 2) Fuel Managment, For low boost you can use a FMU safely to say 9-10 psi on a daily driver without to many problems, on the pre 98 trucks an inline pump is reccomended but not required to keep things up in pressure. Or you can use aftermarket controller and extra injectors. Depends on how much boost and you budget no how far you go with that setup. 3) Flanges, you will need lots of flanges ones for both the inlet/outlet of the turbo and ones to fit your cat and your header so create the up and downpipes 4) Blow off Valve, this is not completly needed but will prolong the life of your turbo and keep boost when shifting gears. 5) Intercooler, this one I find debatable to its requirment I havent ran one on my daily driver and ran up to 200hp to the wheels without ping, detonation, or any other problems but some will say its absolute. This is to keep the air cool going into the motor to help ward off unwanted detonation. 6) Tubing, you will need lots of it to do it yourself, you need to make a up and downpipe which are the pipes that take the exhaust from the header to the turbo, and from the turbo to the cat location. You need charge pipes which are the pipes that run from the turbo to the motor or the intercooler to the motor. 7) Electric fan, on some of the setups like Stinky's it does not seem to need it but on the 98+ motors the fan is where the turbo is going to sit so you gotta get rid of the motor driven. 8) Couplings, these are to attach the charge pipes and intercooler and the bov mount together. Reducers are in this same catagory in the need to change sizes from the Throttle body which is 2.75 inch inside diameter to say 2 inch outside diamater tubing for your charge pipes. 9) Vac lines and Tees, you need to run a vac/boost line to the Blow off Valve, boost gauge, FMU, and wastegate. These all use signal to refrence boost or vacuum to gauge eihter how much boost you make to how much fuel to add or when to open to relive the excess gasses. 10) Wastegate, these are what makes you boost to a certain pressure. Without one you will create boost till you blow the engine. They can be either internal or external. Internal are easier to use in the fact that they are attached directly to the turbo and need less modification to use. External use extra tubing to run from the turbo back into the exhaust path down the line. 11) Gauges, Boost, A/F, Exhasut temp are what I reccomend. these are to keep track of all the happenings of your motor and can be used to tune the system and keep your truck running forever or till you over boost. 12) Gaskets, because no body likes exhasut leaks. 13) Header Wrap, keep the heat in the tubing and out of the engine bay much nicer than cooking all your electronics and wires and for you 98+ guys warping the intake manifold. 14) Clamps, you will need them for small hoses such as fuel lines to big ones like your charge pipes. Get lots and they are cheap so dont get just enough get more than enough just in case. 15) Alcohol, either for the creation process or instal of a kit its almost required not to loose your mind in all the pipes and loose ends when you get near the end. All the obvious needs such as a bender or prebent tubing, welder, tools, imagination, and lots of time. This is not a time to half ass this. To make something reliable you need to take your time and make it to last. Dont use cheap piping or low quality hoses use what will not have to be changed over the course of the time you plan to have the truck. Make it look pleasing as well as functional. For the non Flex Fuel Guys You have to have an inline pump to run an FMU over 4psi.At 8 psi your looking at almost 120psi+ in the fuel rail with a 10:1 ratio.The pumps in our trucks(thats 94+: not including flex fuel) are rated for 50psi which means when the pressure hits 50psi the pump opens its pressure release valve.Plus if you go over 8psi(not including flex fuel) with that pressur your injectors will stick.The place i bought my pump from told me to stop smoking crack when i told him i was going to run 10psi on stock injectors with an FMU I recomend mounting it after the filter.I used the Painless Wiring fuel relay kit($30 from Jeg's or Summit) to make the install clean and simple and a Walboro GSL-394 inline rated at 190lph(60gallons) with a 95psi rating.For the FMU's :6-8psi on stock injectors max and you will need a pump with at least a 90psi rating.If you want to run over 8psi on an FMU you will want to upgrade the injectors so that you can decrease the FMU ratio to reduce the fuel pressure.You don't want to go over 100psi. Last edited by GoofyGuy : 08-16-2004 at 11:38 PM.
	[Reply w/Quote]

08-17-2004, 06:02 PM	#2
Stinky slowly fast Join Date: Aug 2003 Posts: 2,001 Location: Stinkyass, VA User is: OffLine	Re: Turbo F.A.Q. Kudos Goofy!This will get the guys on the right track.Also don't forget the turbocharges bible"Maximum Boost" by Corky Bell.It will make your head spin at first but enlightenment will come.
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08-29-2004, 02:22 PM	#3
V8TurboGMC Registered User Age: 29 Join Date: Aug 2004 Posts: 4 Location: User is: OffLine	Re: Turbo F.A.Q. So, If I have a 98' 2.2 with a turbo and run 8 psi, what will the computer do as far as timing goes? I plan in buying a 98+ truck because I have a t3/t4 BB turbo sitting at my shop with a .63 A/R exhaust housing with a stage 5 trubine wheel and a 62-1 on the compressor side. I just wan to run 8 psi (this is a work truck). So back to my first question whats up with the timing? Also do these trucks use a MAF? If so do you blow through it of draw through? Thanks, Kyle~
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08-29-2004, 09:50 PM	#4
Stinky slowly fast Join Date: Aug 2003 Posts: 2,001 Location: Stinkyass, VA User is: OffLine	Re: Turbo F.A.Q. The computer actually does fine weirdly enough.Obvoiusly its blow through,dude its fuel injected.These trucks use MAP sensors and are not as tempermental as MAF equiped vehicles.
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08-29-2004, 10:49 PM	#5
BigRey The Blue Ferret Age: 27 Join Date: Nov 2003 Posts: 371 Location: Tucson, AZ User is: OffLine	Re: Turbo F.A.Q. Non-MAF are also known as speed density.
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09-03-2004, 11:37 PM	#6
GoofyGuy Pressurized 2.2 Member Age: 27 Join Date: May 2003 Posts: 3,235 Location: Springhill FL User is: OffLine	Re: Turbo F.A.Q. Amazing enough like Stinky pointed out until you break a bar 14.7 the computer can compensate all the ingition and fuel problems as they arise. I was pleased with all my setups and never had any problems no smoke all have perfect compression still and never heard a knock or ping. If you get a 2.2 the kits on the 98+ are pretty straight forward and easy just time consuming. By the Way mines still on the Market
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09-05-2004, 03:01 PM	#7
325c2 Registered User Age: 24 Join Date: Mar 2002 Posts: 465 Location: User is: OffLine	Re: Turbo F.A.Q. I don't know about the flex fuel models, but my truck can not read boost. The map sensor puts out 4.9X volts from 0 up to any amount of boost. the reason that it doesn't knock is that it has a knock sensor. the compter does not take care of the fuel problems, if it did you would not need the fmu.
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09-05-2004, 06:15 PM	#8
Stinky slowly fast Join Date: Aug 2003 Posts: 2,001 Location: Stinkyass, VA User is: OffLine	Re: Turbo F.A.Q. The 94-97 doesn't read boost either but the IAT when used in the charge pipe will compensate with some retard in timing.Hot air=pulled timing.
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11-10-2004, 08:01 PM	#9
2.2L Sonoma i can beat a geo...barely Age: 24 Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 250 Location: User is: OffLine	Re: Turbo F.A.Q. Ive heard of guys putting on 28lb injectors (we have 14lb right?) when they slap on a turbo and only having the FMU around to control idle fuel management so it doesnt flood...based on the first post here...all i would have to do for my 99 sonoma fuel is nothing but FMU and no new pump? Nice FAQ section guys... Thanks, A.J.
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11-10-2004, 10:13 PM	#10
Stinky slowly fast Join Date: Aug 2003 Posts: 2,001 Location: Stinkyass, VA User is: OffLine	Re: Turbo F.A.Q. Quote: Originally Posted by 2.2L Sonoma Ive heard of guys putting on 28lb injectors (we have 14lb right?) when they slap on a turbo and only having the FMU around to control idle fuel management so it doesnt flood...based on the first post here...all i would have to do for my 99 sonoma fuel is nothing but FMU and no new pump? Nice FAQ section guys... Thanks, A.J. You can't just put in bigger injectors without some kind of ECU/electronic fuel controller to lean them out for idle.The FMU doesn't control the injectors,it raises fuel pressure.If you run your stock injectors(or at max 10% bigger) and an FMU you will need an inline pump with a pressure rating of a minium of 90 psi.
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11-10-2004, 11:47 PM	#11
2.2L Sonoma i can beat a geo...barely Age: 24 Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 250 Location: User is: OffLine	Re: Turbo F.A.Q. Quote: Originally Posted by Stinky If you run your stock injectors(or at max 10% bigger) and an FMU you will need an inline pump with a pressure rating of a minium of 90 psi. So i will need a new inline pump regardless of the injectors? I thought the pumps were only needed on the 97 and down motors....ive got the vortec 2200...lol i am really new to the idea of a turbo so im trying to learn as much as i can. One of my buddies turboed a neon and he said he would help me set it up in my car...but doesnt know jack about our motors...thanks for the help man! A.J.
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11-11-2004, 11:00 AM	#12
2.2L Sonoma i can beat a geo...barely Age: 24 Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 250 Location: User is: OffLine	Re: Turbo F.A.Q. one more thing...does 8 psi sound right for the stock internals on this motor? or can i go higher than that?...j/w
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11-15-2004, 03:29 PM	#13
325c2 Registered User Age: 24 Join Date: Mar 2002 Posts: 465 Location: User is: OffLine	Re: Turbo F.A.Q. I am running 8psi and its still running strong, but i don't have the fuel to turn the boost up. I think that it is the max that you can go with the stock fuel pump, but i might have some other restriction in the fuel system that i haven't found.
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11-15-2004, 06:58 PM	#14
Stinky slowly fast Join Date: Aug 2003 Posts: 2,001 Location: Stinkyass, VA User is: OffLine	Re: Turbo F.A.Q. The problem is on the vehicles that don't have flex fuel is the pumps are rated at 50psi.Which means once the fuel pressure passes 50psi the pump's purge valve starts to open to release some of the fuel pressure.I don't know about Vortech FMU's but the Cartech one i have demands you use a pump with a minium pressure rating of 90psi.325c2 have you checked your A/F ratio between 7-8psi?
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11-15-2004, 07:14 PM	#15
325c2 Registered User Age: 24 Join Date: Mar 2002 Posts: 465 Location: User is: OffLine	Re: Turbo F.A.Q. i just have the reading off of the o2 sensor so it isn't very accurate, but it says it is around 14:1 and I want it to be 13:1 which would read full rich on that sensor. i plan on getting it on a dyno with a wideband o2 sensor some time in the near future. i just need to hook up the extra injector and get a new pump.
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11-25-2004, 01:54 PM	#16
hercamer Not Me Just The Truck Age: 26 Join Date: Apr 2003 Posts: 65 Location: Carthage, MO User is: OffLine	Re: Turbo F.A.Q. How do you tell if you have a flex fuel? Is flex fuel only in 98+. I have a 97 2.2 that I am thinking about turboing during my winter break from college. If I just want to run 6-8 PSI boost do I need to do anything to my ECU or anyother electronics like get a fuel managment system, also how where did you guys install your feed oil lines? I know that one goes to the oil pan but how about the other? I have read on the internet that there are kits for relocating the oil filter and using this as a feed line, thanks for any suggestions.
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11-26-2004, 02:06 PM	#17
Stinky slowly fast Join Date: Aug 2003 Posts: 2,001 Location: Stinkyass, VA User is: OffLine	Re: Turbo F.A.Q. Quote: Originally Posted by hercamer How do you tell if you have a flex fuel? Is flex fuel only in 98+. I have a 97 2.2 that I am thinking about turboing during my winter break from college. If I just want to run 6-8 PSI boost do I need to do anything to my ECU or anyother electronics like get a fuel managment system, also how where did you guys install your feed oil lines? I know that one goes to the oil pan but how about the other? I have read on the internet that there are kits for relocating the oil filter and using this as a feed line, thanks for any suggestions. The flex fuel was offered in the 98+ 2.2's so you definatly don't have it.I tapped my oil feed off the oil pressure sender unit.There is a tap above the oil filter you can use as well.You could get away with using a FMU and the MSD DIS ll with boost programable retard.Its listed as the "programable" unit.
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11-28-2004, 04:42 PM	#18
superfrigincow New To The Game. . . Age: 27 Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 250 Location: User is: OffLine	Re: Turbo F.A.Q. http://www.scdyne.com/fuelkit/index.html fuel problem fixed with a part made for a saturn. It comes with everthing needed to install and use execpt a pump. Just install this near the torottle body and tune it in.
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11-28-2004, 06:04 PM	#19
Stinky slowly fast Join Date: Aug 2003 Posts: 2,001 Location: Stinkyass, VA User is: OffLine	Re: Turbo F.A.Q. Yeah there is a guy on the forum using the SDS MF-2 on his supercharged truck for his fuel delivery.I had planned on doing the same thing but our manifolds are a dry intake system so i was alittle conserned with what would happen to the MAP sensor after it got saturated with gas.
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11-30-2004, 10:20 PM	#20
99Super-10 BMW Parts Dept. Age: 27 Join Date: Apr 2002 Posts: 433 Location: Bryn Mawr, Pa User is: OffLine	Re: Turbo F.A.Q. Just something to throw out there. Are you all sure the stock fuel pump in our trucks only flow 50 psi at max. This is non-flex, and 98 or newer. I surely dont have flex and at 8 pounds and a fmu I just barely leaned out. Mind you i've been straped for cash for awhile, but i've been slowly adding to the mix. I originaly thought e-manage was the easy out out of management problems. I was wrong, sorta, it takes alot of extras,a lot of trial and error, and an extensive amount of money to tune just right. I've dug a hole I can barely afford to get out of. My knowledge has surpassed my income. My trucks been down for nearly a year due to mostly fuel manegment and I'm really fed up with it. Everytime I buy something new, I encounter a new stumbling block. I will beat this motor before it beats me. Well, I got distracted. Sorry. Back to the issue. I'm positive the stock fuel pump, 98+ non-flex, flows a helluva lot more than 50 psi. I'm missing the exact figure here but at idle i believe we sit at 36-42 psi. Theres no way 50 is the max. And as a reminder to anyone interested in turbocharging, keep it under 8 pounds or suffer.
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11-30-2004, 11:14 PM	#21
Stinky slowly fast Join Date: Aug 2003 Posts: 2,001 Location: Stinkyass, VA User is: OffLine	Re: Turbo F.A.Q. I know for an absolute fact.The max psi rating has to do with the purge valve opening.It doesn't mean you still can't have 60-70 psi in the fuel rail,it just won't be constant.Especially under W.O.T. Call any place that has a knowledable staff(Vortech,Turbonetics...) and explain to them what your doing and see the reaction you get.I have been treated like i am borderline retarded many times talking to these guys in my "quest for knowledge" Even the Cartech FMU i bought and from talking to people from the company explicitly state you have to use a high pressur pump.Cartech recomends a 90 PSI rated pump or higher.Are you datalogging with a wideband O2 to determine your air/fuel ratio?These guys told me i need to be around 12:1 A/F at w.o.t I garentee once you get a different pump it will be a whole different story.Yeah i did the Ebay thing with my Greddy stuff.If i had top feed injectors it would be a different story but still a pain in the ass due to lack of real support.Put that money straight into my WRX!
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12-23-2004, 11:30 PM	#22
baddisintegra Registered User Age: 25 Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 1 Location: User is: OffLine	Re: Turbo F.A.Q. wuddup fellas, i am soon to be getting a s10 ( summertime) i am looking towards the xtreme but not to sure yet, anyhoo i am a turbo fan...i got a se-r that will soon be turbo...my question is how is the bottom block of the 2.2L motor built? is it open deck like a Honda motor is, or is it closed deck like Nissans are ( better for the boost) and also wut type of compression does the bottom end come with? pretty much wut i wanna know is wut kind of power will the 2.2L be capable of without doin intrenal wokr to the block?
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12-24-2004, 10:10 AM	#23
Stinky slowly fast Join Date: Aug 2003 Posts: 2,001 Location: Stinkyass, VA User is: OffLine	Re: Turbo F.A.Q. Quote: Originally Posted by baddisintegra wuddup fellas, i am soon to be getting a s10 ( summertime) i am looking towards the xtreme but not to sure yet, anyhoo i am a turbo fan...i got a se-r that will soon be turbo...my question is how is the bottom block of the 2.2L motor built? is it open deck like a Honda motor is, or is it closed deck like Nissans are ( better for the boost) and also wut type of compression does the bottom end come with? pretty much wut i wanna know is wut kind of power will the 2.2L be capable of without doin intrenal wokr to the block? unfortunatly its open deck(poo-poo) so for anybody that wants to go forced induction i would not bore the block out to keep the cylinder walls as thick as possible.They run about a 8.8:1 copression which for low boost is great.I would go with a 9:1(since aftermarket piston go from 8.5:1-9:1).That will get the truck moving "off boost".Most guys have run about 8-10 PSI on stock internal but this will all depend on your tuning(keeping detonation down/retarding timing properly)
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12-26-2004, 10:10 PM	#24
superfrigincow New To The Game. . . Age: 27 Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 250 Location: User is: OffLine	Re: Turbo F.A.Q. it uses a up pipe that comes off the stock or ALs header to the front of the engine. I have installed a few of those kits myself with goofy a few on his truck one on mine and the kits are 100% all the parts. I had mine for about 40k before I had other plans. As for a daily driver I used it for a frigin delivery truck and it still runs great with the turbo on it.
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12-26-2004, 10:12 PM	#25
superfrigincow New To The Game. . . Age: 27 Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 250 Location: User is: OffLine	Re: Turbo F.A.Q. also I wouldnt push the stock motor over 14psi intercooled. 2 reasons the rods will break at 250 hp and 14psi will bring you around 230. And over 1 bar 14.7 psi the engine drops into limp mode and then you have nothing.
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12-31-2004, 03:46 AM	#26
rantz and raves Hardcore Style Age: 21 Join Date: Oct 2004 Posts: 1,118 Location: Tampa Florida User is: OffLine	Re: Turbo F.A.Q. Quote: Originally Posted by superfrigincow it uses a up pipe that comes off the stock or ALs header to the front of the engine. I have installed a few of those kits myself with goofy a few on his truck one on mine and the kits are 100% all the parts. I had mine for about 40k before I had other plans. As for a daily driver I used it for a frigin delivery truck and it still runs great with the turbo on it. what should i do to my motor in order to prepare it for a turbo? any seals or w/e? i'm good about the oil changes and i'm in the GP for the als header now. got the exhaust and intake and TB. anything else? do you think i'd be fine with 118k miles?
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12-31-2004, 09:40 AM	#27
Stinky slowly fast Join Date: Aug 2003 Posts: 2,001 Location: Stinkyass, VA User is: OffLine	Re: Turbo F.A.Q. Quote: Originally Posted by rantz and raves what should i do to my motor in order to prepare it for a turbo? any seals or w/e? i'm good about the oil changes and i'm in the GP for the als header now. got the exhaust and intake and TB. anything else? do you think i'd be fine with 118k miles? Well i would go ahead and do the e-fan conersion if you haven't,but if you buy the turbos-10 kit i believe the fan is included.Change out the thermostat to a 180 and back flush the radiator and block.As long as you don't go over 10 psi on the stock internals(daily) you won't need forged internals.I would maybe add an oil cooler and start running synthetic once the turbo is on.
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12-31-2004, 02:08 PM	#28
rantz and raves Hardcore Style Age: 21 Join Date: Oct 2004 Posts: 1,118 Location: Tampa Florida User is: OffLine	Re: Turbo F.A.Q. Quote: Originally Posted by Stinky Well i would go ahead and do the e-fan conersion if you haven't,but if you buy the turbos-10 kit i believe the fan is included.Change out the thermostat to a 180 and back flush the radiator and block.As long as you don't go over 10 psi on the stock internals(daily) you won't need forged internals.I would maybe add an oil cooler and start running synthetic once the turbo is on. well i got the taurus efan in my closet right now... just waiting to find a day off and i already looked at the wiring kit at advanced auto parts... it was a preset one at like 185... ? and what good does it do to change my thermostat to 180?where is it set now?i understand flushing the radiator, but how do you flush the block? i'm running synthetic blend now so ok i'd just go up to synthetic. umm as for oil cooler is that a part or an additive?
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12-31-2004, 09:04 PM	#29
Stinky slowly fast Join Date: Aug 2003 Posts: 2,001 Location: Stinkyass, VA User is: OffLine	Re: Turbo F.A.Q. Quote: Originally Posted by rantz and raves well i got the taurus efan in my closet right now... just waiting to find a day off and i already looked at the wiring kit at advanced auto parts... it was a preset one at like 185... ? and what good does it do to change my thermostat to 180?where is it set now?i understand flushing the radiator, but how do you flush the block? i'm running synthetic blend now so ok i'd just go up to synthetic. umm as for oil cooler is that a part or an additive? The oil cooler is like a mini radiator for your oil.You just mount it in front of your radiator.The factory thermostat opens at 195 so the 180 will allow the engine to run alittle cooler.The purpose of this is because adding forced induction will cause the engine to run hotter especially when the engine wasn't designed for it.This is mostly for stop and go traffic.There is a drain plug in the block or you can use a Prestone back flush kit.This type of flush is done with the engine running to pump out all the crap in the radiator to drain out.
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01-02-2005, 04:25 PM	#30
BigRey The Blue Ferret Age: 27 Join Date: Nov 2003 Posts: 371 Location: Tucson, AZ User is: OffLine	Re: Turbo F.A.Q. I have some issues to clear up. (I'm kind of dense:P) Stinky, you mentioned that you tapped into the oil pressure switch near the oil filter landing. Is this one of those threaded screws that you remove with an alan wrench? If so, the one that points up or to the side of the block? Also, the wastegate mounting. I'm having a hard time comprehending the way this is set up. Is it plummed on the manifold side (to bypass the turbo) to the exhaust side of the turbo on an externally gated setup? I'm starting to get my stuff together. So far I have no parts, just doing research! I have found everything I may need for an install of the custom kind, I just need to find a T3 to begin with.
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01-03-2005, 01:02 AM	#31
hellbents10 Got spray? Got boost? (y) Age: 26 Join Date: Nov 2002 Posts: 3,040 Location: Spring Lake, MI User is: OffLine	Re: Turbo F.A.Q. Well I don't know if anyone has said this yet. I would not shoot for a afr of 13:1 at WOT. 11.8:1 is the appropriate number. Some vehicle will make a few more hp going leaner but not worth it on the street. Soem forced induction vehicles will run harder going as rich as 11:1. Don't forget to go a few heat ranges colder on the plugs.
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01-03-2005, 10:45 AM	#32
Stinky slowly fast Join Date: Aug 2003 Posts: 2,001 Location: Stinkyass, VA User is: OffLine	Re: Turbo F.A.Q. Quote: Originally Posted by hellbents10 Well I don't know if anyone has said this yet. I would not shoot for a afr of 13:1 at WOT. 11.8:1 is the appropriate number. Some vehicle will make a few more hp going leaner but not worth it on the street. Soem forced induction vehicles will run harder going as rich as 11:1. Don't forget to go a few heat ranges colder on the plugs. Yeah 13 is the max.My WRX from the factory at w.o.t. is 10:1!At this point the extra fuel is just used for antiknock/cooling.
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01-03-2005, 10:56 AM	#33
Stinky slowly fast Join Date: Aug 2003 Posts: 2,001 Location: Stinkyass, VA User is: OffLine	Re: Turbo F.A.Q. Quote: Originally Posted by BigRey I have some issues to clear up. (I'm kind of dense:P) Stinky, you mentioned that you tapped into the oil pressure switch near the oil filter landing. Is this one of those threaded screws that you remove with an alan wrench? If so, the one that points up or to the side of the block? Also, the wastegate mounting. I'm having a hard time comprehending the way this is set up. Is it plummed on the manifold side (to bypass the turbo) to the exhaust side of the turbo on an externally gated setup? I'm starting to get my stuff together. So far I have no parts, just doing research! I have found everything I may need for an install of the custom kind, I just need to find a T3 to begin with. I actually t-ed off the oil pressure switch/sender itself.Later i noticed the small alan wrenched plugs like you mentioned and researced it.Thats where alot of the J body guys are tapping from.Yeah on an external wastegate you have to come of the manifold on the inlet side(can even use a pipe that extends alittle for clearance.)Then you have to come off the wategate outlet and plumb back into the turbo outlet pipe(discharge pipe) that goes to the muffler.It absolutley bypasses the turbo.It regulates the boost pressure by venting off the exhaust pressure turning the turbo.On race vehicles they don't even plumb back into the exhaust.The wastegate outlet is basicly just a little exhaust pipe.They don't do this on street vehicles,because of course,the wastegate outlet would sound just the same as running around with no muffler.If you use the JGS manifold kit i believe they can weld the wategate flange on for u if you use on of the wategates that they advertise flanges for. Last edited by Stinky : 01-03-2005 at 10:57 AM.
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01-04-2005, 04:52 PM	#35
Stinky slowly fast Join Date: Aug 2003 Posts: 2,001 Location: Stinkyass, VA User is: OffLine	Re: Turbo F.A.Q. Quote: Originally Posted by BigRey Thanks Stinky! I have done a lot of searching and in the past four days, I have probably learned more than I could have if my truck came with a turbo. I was on the Summit online catalog last night and found that MSD makes a MAP sensor of either 1, 2, or 3 bar types. The item they had pictured looks just like the MAP on our trucks! (94-97) What kind of solution would this generate if the computer can now read boost? Changing just the MAP sensor doesn't do anything.The ECU has to be programed to read boost.The problem is a 1,2 and 3 bar map sensor ALL use a voltage of 0-5volts so if you put a 2 bar map sensor on a vehicle whoes ECU wasnot programed/calibraded to use it you would have a f&cked up running truck!You can get a 2 and 3 bar MAP sensor through GM.They were used on the Buick GN's,Syclones,Typhoons,Sunbird & Skyhawk turbos...
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01-04-2005, 11:50 PM	#36
BigRey The Blue Ferret Age: 27 Join Date: Nov 2003 Posts: 371 Location: Tucson, AZ User is: OffLine	Re: Turbo F.A.Q. But even using a 2 or 3 bar map from gm would still yeild the same results as an after market unit if the computer is not calibrated for it. I guess some things never turn out right!
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