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post #1 of 27 Old 03-07-2017, 03:42 PM Thread Starter
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Another Fuel Pump Thread?

Hello!

2001 S10 LS Extended Cab 2.2 Flex Fuel w/ 5-spd Stick; 179,000 miles. Houston, TX (no rust concerns)

Pull up under a freeway overpass today and the engine just....died. It tried to run in restart, but shook only able to to idle about 500 rpm. Multiple restarts and then normal. Drove it for another 3 or 4 miles. Stopped again when I let the clutch out at a light, and just about didn't get it started again.

At this point, some 18 miles or so from home, I decided to try to get to the Chevy dealer which was a couple of blocks away. Rolled it straight to the service bay. A pretty cool gentleman (who's owned a few s-trucks himself) helped me. We couldn't replicate the issue at the dealership, but agreed that this is likely a fuel pump. No check engine lights; it just seemed to be starving for gas. I told him about my dead blow hammer I keep behind the seat to get the fuel pump going occasionally if it's been sitting for a few days. I thought maybe we could just have them install a fuel pump, but with a $1,500 price tag for the job.....we both agreed that without a solid diagnosis, not a great idea.

He sorta surprised me, when he suggested, "just drive it home." ...and see what happens. So, I got a wrecker number to call and left.

While on the freeway, it did it again at 60 mph. The cruise control just floored the gas pedal, and we just started to slow. By this time, I had a working plan for diagnosis on the way. This time, tried coaxing it with the clutch using vehicle moment, no-dice. Then the starter, no-dice. Then I cycled the ignition switch off, and back on to start....the engine instantly started. In every instance we have electrical power because I was watching the gauges.

It happened again at a light when I was about a mile from the house, I rolled out of traffic, then cycled the ignition switch....instant start.

I am thinking my fuel pump is just about done. I did manage to get a genuine AC/Delco pump on the way home (way cheaper than the dealer price).

How am I doing here? Am I working this issue correctly?

Thanks,
Ken T.

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post #2 of 27 Old 03-07-2017, 03:44 PM
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Re: Another Fuel Pump Thread?

I had an issue kind of like that recently and it turned out to be a bad coil. The issue does sound like it could be fuel related though.

The pump isn't hard to replace. I did mine in a couple hours. Lift the bed off, don't drop the tank. And keep your original fuel level sender if you can.
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post #3 of 27 Old 03-07-2017, 03:51 PM
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Re: Another Fuel Pump Thread?

If a heavy thump to the underside of the gas tank gets the truck to start, that's a pretty sure sign the pump is dying fast. The brushes are worn out in the pump, and jarring the gas tank causes the brushes to contact just a wee bit more.

I've had probably a dozen "no starts", or "random dies" that I just replaced the pump to fix, didn't do any diagnostics and it fixed the problem.

The brushes are not going to go much longer and thumping the tank will no longer work. The only ABSOLUTE way to know for sure is to have a fuel pressure gauge on it when it is acting up.

$1500 to replace a fuel pump!!! Even at the dealer it shouldn't be near that much. You can buy a Delphie, AC Delco or Bosch pump for about 50 bucks on eBay.
$120 an hour at the dealer, 3 hours TOPS, should be under $500

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Re: Another Fuel Pump Thread?

Thanks for the replies. Certainly can't rule out the coil, but there are diagnostics with the VOM that check for a healthy coil, although in my experience, coils usually have to cool down to recover. But you never know. Also, and I do have a fuel pressure gauge; it won't hurt to see what the pressure looks like at idle and snap throttle.

Will be picking up the AC Delco fuel pump today.

I also failed to mention that the fuel filter is all original ( I know this because I have owned the truck since I bought it new in September 2000). I am sure the fuel regulator is probably needing attention by now.

Any more thoughts?

Ken T.
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post #5 of 27 Old 03-08-2017, 12:56 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Another Fuel Pump Thread?

Quote:
Originally Posted by gokalsk View Post
I had an issue kind of like that recently and it turned out to be a bad coil. The issue does sound like it could be fuel related though.

The pump isn't hard to replace. I did mine in a couple hours. Lift the bed off, don't drop the tank. And keep your original fuel level sender if you can.
I started thinking about this some more last night (the coil). When the engine was in distress, it never backfired, but it was very rough. I wonder if it was running on two cylinders? I had been running it a long time that day, and it was warm outside.

Anyone know how long the OBD-2 misfire data is kept on the S10?

Thanks,
Ken T.
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post #6 of 27 Old 03-08-2017, 01:21 PM
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Re: Another Fuel Pump Thread?

Not sure about how long the computer keeps the data (though you can get misfire codes from bad fuel pumps, too -- usually random rather than one specific cylinder). But I'd just go ahead and change the fuel pump anyway. It sounds like yours is on the fritz. You should have no regrets replacing it even if it turns out not to be the issue. If it does, then you're golden. It's like a 3-hr job tops. Basic hand tools. If you can't get someone to help you lift the bed off, you can just jack it up in the front enough to reach the fuel pump.
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post #7 of 27 Old 03-08-2017, 02:27 PM
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Re: Another Fuel Pump Thread?

If u have a Vin 5 (flex fuel) make sure u get the right fuel pump. And Ive never seen the delco Vin 5 pumps for less than $250. Maybe I want looking in the right place. Also change the fuel filter too. If u indeed do have a Vin 5 then the fuel filter has the regulator in it and can go bad too. Unfortunately the flex fuel filters are $50 too

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post #8 of 27 Old 03-08-2017, 02:53 PM
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Re: Another Fuel Pump Thread?

I have never understood how AC Delco thinks their parts are worth a premium because they're "oem." The oem fuel pumps on these trucks were garbage. Pretty much every part was.
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post #9 of 27 Old 03-08-2017, 03:16 PM
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Re: Another Fuel Pump Thread?

I would slap a fuel pressure gauge on it before you go buying any parts. Drive it until it starts acting up, or let it idle, either way, then put the gauge on it and rev it up and see if it's dropping pressure when the RPM increases. If so, the pump it on it's way out.

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post #10 of 27 Old 03-09-2017, 12:56 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Another Fuel Pump Thread?

Quote:
Originally Posted by gokalsk View Post
Not sure about how long the computer keeps the data (though you can get misfire codes from bad fuel pumps, too -- usually random rather than one specific cylinder). But I'd just go ahead and change the fuel pump anyway. It sounds like yours is on the fritz. You should have no regrets replacing it even if it turns out not to be the issue. If it does, then you're golden. It's like a 3-hr job tops. Basic hand tools. If you can't get someone to help you lift the bed off, you can just jack it up in the front enough to reach the fuel pump.
I agree. That fuel pump has been unhappy for a long time. In fact, the truck has never been uncomfortable with its fuel pumps since it rolled off the show room floor. The fuel pumps were replaced under warranty twice in two days. It's always been a problem if the thing has been sitting up for a couple of days. A couple of whacks with a 2x4 would usually get it going (I've got a nice dead blow hammer now, it's been 16 years banging on it). Still, this failure is different, before it's always been a start issue...now we have a dying issue.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jayyk31 View Post
If u have a Vin 5 (flex fuel) make sure u get the right fuel pump. And Ive never seen the delco Vin 5 pumps for less than $250. Maybe I want looking in the right place. Also change the fuel filter too. If u indeed do have a Vin 5 then the fuel filter has the regulator in it and can go bad too. Unfortunately the flex fuel filters are $50 too
.

Got it! The pump is well over $250, but it's AC Delco. I dunno why, I probably should have ordered a nice Bosch on line. I also have the special VIN 5 fuel filter as well. The fuel filter is 16 years old, and I betting the fuel regulator that's inside isn't doing well. Although, I confess I don't know how that regulator works compared to one that sits on the fuel rail.

Quote:
Originally Posted by scriptedmind View Post
I would slap a fuel pressure gauge on it before you go buying any parts. Drive it until it starts acting up, or let it idle, either way, then put the gauge on it and rev it up and see if it's dropping pressure when the RPM increases. If so, the pump it on it's way out.
Definitely! I have transportation, so I will try to get to the bottom of this with my fuel pressure guage, AND I have a laptop loaded with Ease Diagnostics. I'll data log the thing until it dies. The ODB computer does keep a count of misses on each cylinder. I think between the guage and the laptop, we'll know the failure mode real quick.

Thanks!
Ken T.
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post #11 of 27 Old 03-09-2017, 04:03 PM
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Re: Another Fuel Pump Thread?

An FYI on fuel pump brands.

From what I've seen, AC Delco is reboxing Bosch pumps. I bought an AC Delco over a Bosch pump because I like AC Delco better even though it cost more, and when I opened the box the label on the pump was Bosch, and it had a Bosch P/N. So I returned the AC Delco for a Bosch and saved myself $60

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Re: Another Fuel Pump Thread?

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Originally Posted by AWD V8 View Post
An FYI on fuel pump brands.

From what I've seen, AC Delco is reboxing Bosch pumps. I bought an AC Delco over a Bosch pump because I like AC Delco better even though it cost more, and when I opened the box the label on the pump was Bosch, and it had a Bosch P/N. So I returned the AC Delco for a Bosch and saved myself $60

In today's global market, that doesn't surprise me one bit.

Another question. When I was speaking to the service advisor, he told me that when you loosen the fasteners on the bed, be sure to mark (spray paint it to stencil it) it because getting the bed to sit straight can be an issue. He showed me a number of S10 trucks he had posted online; he said he's posted here before. Has this been your experience?

Ken T.
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post #13 of 27 Old 03-10-2017, 10:43 AM
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Re: Another Fuel Pump Thread?

I had no issue putting the bed back on. Didn't stencil it or anything. IIRC there was enough corrosion on the underside to see exactly where it had been before it was removed. Also, there were 6 bolts so it's hard to get it too crooked.

Considering the build quality of these trucks it's probably not particularly straight anyway. You could probably do better eyeballing it.
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post #14 of 27 Old 03-10-2017, 11:06 AM
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Re: Another Fuel Pump Thread?

I pulled the tank, it was on Jimmies & Blazers I did the pumps.

Like gokalsk said, you likely have enough corrosion you'll be able to see when the bed is in the positioned correctly.

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post #15 of 27 Old 03-10-2017, 05:00 PM
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Re: Another Fuel Pump Thread?

I've used Delphi brand on fuel pump with no issues. Although fuel pressure gauge would be quick way to know on psi whether if pump is sending enough or not. I would recommend replacing fuel filter while you at it.

RockAuto would have better deals at times than Dealership would do. That is if you don't mind the waiting time and have another vehicle to use.

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post #16 of 27 Old 03-11-2017, 09:02 AM
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Re: Another Fuel Pump Thread?

^agreed ....I use Delphi Brand also and have no issues at all .....and Rock Auto is a good spot to purchase ( wait time is short )

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Re: Another Fuel Pump Thread?

Thanks for the feedback on Delphi. I was wondering if they were any good after they spun off of GM. I have the AC Delco ( allegedly a Bosch) already, but I'll probably return it. I paid WAY too much for it.

On the bed, I've never heard anything about the lining up before, so I checked with you guys. As far as build quality goes, having had my S10 since it was new I can comment.

Two issues:

1. 3rd door / driver door - sealing issues, especially on high speed right turns on the curves, the truck flexes and the seal is broken - wind noise.

2. One of the front fenders doesn't fit completely flush with the hood.

3. (honorable / dishonorable mention) - passenger seat doesn't lock to the tracks very well when the seat is slid forward for access to extended cab, or when the seat is adjusted. A bit embarrassing when your guest is aboard, and they get crunched in the mid section when you brake. My previous S10, a '97 , was the same way.

Otherwise the truck's fit and finish is pretty good

Ken T.
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post #18 of 27 Old 03-11-2017, 10:38 AM
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Re: Another Fuel Pump Thread?

When the fuel pump went on my 2002, it actually blew the ecm "B" fuse. I replaced mine with Delphi from Amazon. (also shopped Rock Auto)
Replaced what looked to be original filter with an off brand also from Amazon with good ratings. Ran good for almost a year, then fuel pressure regulator failed. Bought a Napa gold filter locally . Been great ever since.
Check this link for fuel pressure testing

http://www.s10forum.com/forum/f107/h...k-down-709546/

My Jimmy failed the deadhead test. I replaced it with a Bosch from Rock Auto. Hard start fixed.

Link to my 2.2 misfire thread.
http://www.s10forum.com/forum/f105/2...isfire-478310/

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post #19 of 27 Old 03-11-2017, 10:38 AM
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Re: Another Fuel Pump Thread?

+1 on Delphi, it's what I intend to purchase when mine goes south. I installed a used bed on my truck, the prev. owner was a kid and I think he hit a wooden fence , the side was pretty hammered, no issues with lining up the used bed, you can get all the bolts started, 8 bolts and then eye ball the alignment, there's not that much adjustment. I've had good luck with Delphi, AC Delco in GM vehicles. Airtex is garbage and their re boxed Master is garbage as well. Pulling the bed or jacking it up is pretty time saving, it's worth having the reliability buying the better quality pumps, I have the 100 mile tows with AAA but if I'm in Tampa visiting my brother I am just past the 100 mile to my home in Deltona, the extra $ for a Delphi is worth it to me. I plan on doing the filter/regulator when I do the pump as well, I don't know a good place to get that besides the dealer, I'm a little skeptical on the aftermarket ones having the correct/reliable pressure regulator. Rock auto has pretty quick shipping, they were emailing me a 5% off discount code every month, I guess since I haven't ordered in the last 4 or so months they have discontinued those offers, I bet someone on this forum has a current discount code they'd give out, it can be used by anyone ordering and the emails encourage sharing the code with friends. I usually price compare Rock vs Amazon, even with prime shipping the tax sometimes still makes Rock the better deal, esp. with a discount code. Depends on how fast you need it.
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Re: Another Fuel Pump Thread?

5842158427886652
Enter this code in the "how did you hear about us" space of the checkout page.

I found this code on another forum I belong to, it is valid until April 30, 2017. If you bought the Delphi pump and AC Delco fuel filter this code should save you about $11.60. This is of course for Rock Auto.
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post #21 of 27 Old 03-12-2017, 01:28 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Another Fuel Pump Thread?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hoosier Rick View Post
When the fuel pump went on my 2002, it actually blew the ecm "B" fuse. I replaced mine with Delphi from Amazon. (also shopped Rock Auto)
Replaced what looked to be original filter with an off brand also from Amazon with good ratings. Ran good for almost a year, then fuel pressure regulator failed. Bought a Napa gold filter locally . Been great ever since.
Check this link for fuel pressure testing

http://www.s10forum.com/forum/f107/h...k-down-709546/

My Jimmy failed the deadhead test. I replaced it with a Bosch from Rock Auto. Hard start fixed.

Link to my 2.2 misfire thread.
http://www.s10forum.com/forum/f105/2...isfire-478310/
Your misfire thread was very interesting, really do suspect this is at the root since it fits. It really did feel like it was running on two cylinders. It wasn't pretty.

Thank you and everyone else also for the comments on the fuel system components. I will be returning the pump I purchased and review my options on RockAuto. They have have a warehouse close to where I live, and often parts just take a couple of days to reach me.

In any event, I'll follow up this thread after I check the fuel pressure and do some data logging.

Thanks,
Ken T.
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post #22 of 27 Old 03-17-2017, 10:13 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Another Fuel Pump Thread?

A very busy work week and I've been sick...

Thursday I was feeling better, and pulled the module and coil assembly. I replaced them, and tomorrow I plan to replace the plug wires and plugs.

Any thoughts on using anti-sieze on the plugs?

After I get all this done, I'll take a pressure reading on the fuel. With the number of mile and age, and some gut feel, I decided it was time for a ignition system renewal. The plugs are original at 179,000 miles. Better late than never, right?

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post #23 of 27 Old 03-17-2017, 10:47 PM
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Re: Another Fuel Pump Thread?

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Any thoughts on using anti-sieze on the plugs?
Absolutely!

I use anti-seize on all my plug installs, CRITICAL on aluminum heads, especially with long life plugs.

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post #24 of 27 Old 03-20-2017, 05:05 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Another Fuel Pump Thread?

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Absolutely!

I use anti-seize on all my plug installs, CRITICAL on aluminum heads, especially with long life plugs.
The plugs came out fine, but the threads felt really dry and not very smooth. The plugs themselves looked really good. I wasn't sure what to expect to see with 179,000 miles on these hard working plugs, but they looked fine. So, I used anti-seize which help them go back in smoothly for a nice torque reading.

I also replaced the wires (great fun), the ignition module, and both coils.

The truck ran fine for a day then the symptom started again. Just cut out...

It's fuel, but not a fuel pump issue, so I'm going to start a new thread! (nobody likes stale fuel pump theads).

Ken T.
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post #25 of 27 Old 03-20-2017, 06:27 PM
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Re: Another Fuel Pump Thread?

Anti seize can and will interrupt the grounding of the spark plugs, Greatly diminishing your spark.
Use it, but very minimal amount.
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post #26 of 27 Old 03-21-2017, 03:57 PM
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Re: Another Fuel Pump Thread?

BTW, about the fuel level sender on replacement pumps. On my airtex it would read all the way empty, past the "E", when there were about 3.5 gallons left.

The new one reads completely empty when you have 5.5 gallons left. Almost 1/3 of the tank.

I don't remember the OEM, but it couldn't have been this bad. So keep it if you can.
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post #27 of 27 Old 03-21-2017, 05:57 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Another Fuel Pump Thread?

Quote:
Originally Posted by gokalsk View Post
BTW, about the fuel level sender on replacement pumps. On my airtex it would read all the way empty, past the "E", when there were about 3.5 gallons left.

The new one reads completely empty when you have 5.5 gallons left. Almost 1/3 of the tank.

I don't remember the OEM, but it couldn't have been this bad. So keep it if you can.
Thanks for the heads up on that.

Ken T.
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