Dumb timing question??

[tectron1]

My truck has been pinging a lot lately so I pulled out my timing light to see if everything is where it should be, then realized there is no harmonic balancer.

Where are the timing marks on the 2.5 ??


Thanks

[tectron1]

Nevermind I found them, I guess I should be a little more thourogh before I jump to asking questions

[fishindabay]

i put a smear of white paint on the mark on the crank pulley, and cleaned/degreased the timing marks on the timing cover to make things a little easier.

[lesterl]

Only dumb question is the one not asked.

[tectron1]

I did the white paint trick and that really helped. I am way advanced, about 14-16 I would guess. That would explain why it runs so good on e85 or premium.

Will a bad map sensor cause the timing to fluctuate way off? I ask because Ive never touched the timing since Ive had the truck and it has only begun pinging these past few months.

Premium or e85 fuel seems to cure the pinging but that doesn't explain why it didn't ping before on plain 87 octane. I tried to turn the distributor but it is seized in and theres no room to get any tools in there.

Steve

[kamesama980]

use a long long extention on a ratchet to get at the distributor hold down bolt.

no the MAP sensor will not cause your base timing to change.

the previous owner may have been like me and advanced the crap out of a good-running engine for better mpg/power then recently something happened to make carbon build up in your engine causing pinging. run a can of seafoam or water through the intake to clean it out. (use the vacuum lines in the throttle body and hold the throttle open some). I have mine at 20* and it only occasionally pings under just the right conditions (x speed, y throttle, z engine temp).

the factory timing is 8*. make sure you short the diagnostic connector in the cab before checking the timing or it means nothing. far right 2 terminals in the top row of the connector

[tectron1]

I didn't think about the diag connector, I will short that out and try it again. It may not be that far off afterall.
I completely removed the dist hold down bracket and it is completely frozen in place, I doused it with pb blaster still rusted in.

[travisnewberry]

Quote: Originally Posted by kamesama980

use a long long extention on a ratchet to get at the distributor hold down bolt.

no the MAP sensor will not cause your base timing to change.

the previous owner may have been like me and advanced the crap out of a good-running engine for better mpg/power then recently something happened to make carbon build up in your engine causing pinging. run a can of seafoam or water through the intake to clean it out. (use the vacuum lines in the throttle body and hold the throttle open some). I have mine at 20* and it only occasionally pings under just the right conditions (x speed, y throttle, z engine temp).

the factory timing is 8*. make sure you short the diagnostic connector in the cab before checking the timing or it means nothing. far right 2 terminals in the top row of the connector

tell me more about advancing the timing... 02 4.3 53k miles i get 18-20 usually. maybe i shouldnt mess with it since it has never given me any problems

[lesterl]

Dont dump water down the intake to clean it out, you want to mist the water into the intake so you dont hydrolock the motor. A spray bottle works good on mist settings with cold water in it and a warmed up motor will dislodge a lot of carbon out.

[kamesama980]

Quote: Originally Posted by lesterl

Dont dump water down the intake to clean it out, you want to mist the water into the intake so you dont hydrolock the motor. A spray bottle works good on mist settings with cold water in it and a warmed up motor will dislodge a lot of carbon out.

if you use the emissions vacuum hoses right at the throttle plate, airflow through part throttle will atomize the water well enough. you do usually have to pinch the hose to restrict it with water or SF tho to keep it from bogging too bad. DEFINITELY warm the engine up first.

[lesterl]

Good idea 980 ;-)

[tectron1]

Well I rechecked the timing with the diag port jumpered, and I'm getting about 9 deg timing, close enough.

I have noticed that the truck has been using increased amounts of oil and when the detonation occurs it chuggs out smoke, ie carbon buildup. But it seems to be building up quick because it does it every few minits or so, mostly in town idling coasting etc. Do you think I could have bad valve seals/guides causing it to suck in the oil during high vacume conditions, then when I start to accelerate it chugs it out? I also wondered if a bad head gasket could leak oil into the cylinder while still allowing the engine to run properly? I would think that if it were rings it would smoke all of the time.
I plan on pulling the plugs to take a look but haven't gotten around to it yet.The motor only has 78k on it.

[lesterl]

PCV valve? Been replaced Lately?

[tectron1]

When I bought the truck last august I replaced cap,rotor,wires,plugs,o2 sensor,coolant temp sensor,fuel pump relay,fuel filter,pvc valve,and valve cover gasket.
Just last week I replaced the air filter and breather element and there wasn't any oil to speak of in the air cleaner. The pvc valve still looks new and there is a lot of spring left in it.

[lesterl]

Have you pulled and cleaned the EGR Valve and passeageways? Is the EGR pulling off with vaccume?

[kamesama980]

that does sound a lot like valve stem seals... idling or near it and when you hit the gas and whoosh big cloud of smoke. my 88 cressidas seals were practically non-existant when I changed them. at least one had completely disintegrated, some were riding the valve (instead of the guide) and they all crumbled when I touched them. I was adding about a quart/200 miles at the end of 10w40 high mileage stuff

[tectron1]

I haven't tried cleaning the egr valve yet, I did disconnected the vacume hose and plugged it and it seemed like the detonation got worse.

The truck did sit in a barn for about two years before I bought it, and the oil consumption has recently increased to about 1 quart per tank, I suppose that its possible that the seals were dry and several months of driving it finished them off.

[lesterl]

Sounds like them seals could use replacement.

[tectron1]

Looks like I get to buy some new tools.

[lesterl]

Watcha gonna buy? Or do you do it like I do, Honey - such and such is broke, I think I gotta go buy a thingamajigg?

[tectron1]

LOL I may actually be able to get a diagnostic scanner out of the deal.
Actually I need to get a spring compressor and make a fitting to hook an air chuck to my spark plug hole so I don't drop my valves.

[Steady Eddie]

Quote: Originally Posted by tectron1

LOL I may actually be able to get a diagnostic scanner out of the deal.
Actually I need to get a spring compressor and make a fitting to hook an air chuck to my spark plug hole so I don't drop my valves.

I never had any luck with using compressed air to hold the valves closed. I use cotton clothesline rope and stuff it in the cylinder through the open spark plug hole. Then you turn the engine by hand, and squeeze the rope up to the valve heads on the compression stroke. Then, you can change the seals at will and the valves WILL NOT fall into the cylinder. Simply pull the end of the rope out when you're done.

p.s. This would be a great time to change out the valve springs to something better, like the Vin Code A valve springs...

[Steady Eddie]

"...I completely removed the dist hold down bracket and it is completely frozen in place, I doused it with pb blaster still rusted in..."

Keep after it with the P B Blaster. Douche it down real good and run the motor. The heat-up and cool down cycles will make the Blaster work. It WILL stink. I have been using the stuff for 40 years and it IS amazing...

[tectron1]

That's a good Idea, Probably less hassle too. What year did they start using vin code A? Mine is a 1990. What are the advantages of the code A springs?

[Steady Eddie]

I picked-up on the code A valve spring mod from cruising the circle-track Forums. As I understand it, the Code A springs are better than any other OE springs. It is a cheap fix to valve float. The Code A springs are either stiffer, or feature coil spring harmonics that are "better"..dunno..it is just one of those little speed secrets for use on the Iron Duke motors.
The Code A was the L-38 option, beginning with the--IIRC-- the 1991 (?)-up Iron Dukes, in the Parts Books you'll see it listed as the L-38 "HO" motor, HO meaning High Output....

[lesterl]

I wouldnt buy a scanner for the S-10, a paper clip will do the same thing, the scanners are handy for OBDII such as the CarChip I purchased a few years ago it just plugs in over the Scan port almost a 2"X1"X1" unit and you can have it pick up and monitor all kinds of stuff (up to 5 at a time on my model) and log it as you drive.

[kamesama980]

careful buying a valve spring compressor. I've got the head off mine and went to use my compressor and oh look, all the springs have little shields around them. Anyone know whats up with those? basically you can't grab the springs from above. you have to compress them against the head with a c-clamp or lever type compressor

I ended up using a level and some rope around the bumper to get them.
http://s29.photobucket.com/albums/c2...t=DSC00433.jpg

[lesterl]

gotta love it man, the zebra cakes and a coke? or a beer?

[tectron1]

Actually the scanner would be for my 2004 Venture, I haven't had any problems but it would be nice to have in the toolbox Tools are tools right.

Thanks for the heads up on the spring compressor, I'll make sure to get a lever type.

[Z28Camaro]

Look like some barqs rootbeer to me lol.

[92 s10 project]

Quote: Originally Posted by Steady Eddie

Douche it down real good and run the motor.

Was I the only one to catch this?