2.5 just won't start

blackhawkbill · 07-11-2008, 05:23 AM

I'm pretty new at this. I've been working on my 85 2.5 4 spd, 70K original, it's been in the garage a couple of years. Finally got the fuel pump to work by adding a seperate ground. So i got gas spraying into the TBI. I have spark. Most everything is new(oil& Filter,plugs, wires, O2, coolant temp sensor) Did not change the EGR - MAP -oil press switch. Engine turns but doesn't sound even close to starting. It gives a little popping sound as it turns. Exhaust manifold is getting warm so it seems like there is some detonation in there somewhere. Plugs come out clean and dry. Not sure where to go next. Any ideas?

Steady Eddie · 07-11-2008, 08:21 AM

Bill--

Welcome to the Forum...

As you know, your truck needs fuel, air, spark and compression to run...sounds like you have them all except maybe enough compression ??

If you ran a compression check and it is OK, then you have entered the (Member) S10den Zone..

Member S10den threw everything but the kitchen sink at his Iron Duke, and NEVER got it to run, wound up putting a V-6 in it...and..there are *others* here that have entered the Zone and gave up, traded their rigs off...

blackhawkbill · 07-11-2008, 08:40 AM

My kid is pushing for a 350 swap. Maybe he's gumming up the works on purpose!

Steady Eddie · 07-11-2008, 10:11 AM

You just may have some "outside" help..LOL..

But really, Members here don't know just how good they have it, when their Iron Duke runs well. I know this doesn't help your situation much, but you are among friends here.

I am new at the 4-banger S-10 stuff myself. But learning more everyday. I am leaning towards the idea of complete sensor replacement. Buying one sensor each payday, until you get to the point of "knowing" that they are all good and then---something ELSE is stabbing you in the back. Eliminate the possibilities..these are very old rigs now...

I wish I had the chance to drive a brand new Iron Duke.
Then I'd have a tune-up yardstick to measure by. Is the idle "funny" or just normal for an Iron Duke? Is that noise I hear "normal" or not?? What kind of gas mileage is normal??

Things like that.

puppy power · 07-11-2008, 10:12 AM

Maybe double check the wires make sure they are in the right order....
years ago had a problem that my truck wouldn't start when the computor crapped out...(that has happened twice in 18 years and 342,000+ miles They are only 77.00 at advance auto.... Just changed it in mine but it turned out to be just the o2 sensor.....

Steady Eddie · 07-11-2008, 10:23 AM

PP---

Yes, and I am picking up on that little deal, too. There have been many "ills" cured here, by the installation of a new O2 sensor. Bad gas mileage has been fixed. Run-ability issues have been cured, lots of strange stuff from the S-10den Zone...all cured with a new O2 sensor.

That is why I believe buying all-new sensors is a good idea. One at a time.

lesterl · 07-11-2008, 12:08 PM

You say she has been garaged for a few years, have you replaced the old gas yet? Pull the fuel pump fuse and try to start it with some carb cleaner down the TB to verify the compression/ ignition is working fine, if it fires and dies, get the fuel pressure checked and if the gas is years old get rid of it in favor of new gas. Gas separates over time, the volitile part of the gas evaporates off and water will condense in the fuel itself, always a good idea to drain it out after sitting that long.

blackhawkbill · 07-11-2008, 08:22 PM

The o2 sensor is new and I completely drained and replaced the gas with 92 octane. i re-did the plug wires last nite, one more time, before I tried to start it I'm going to check compression tomorrow-- just in case
I bought this used in 1986 with 11,000 so i've seen and hauled the best this little beast has had to offer.Has always started on the first click-that's why I'm so surprised

Steady Eddie · 07-12-2008, 12:57 AM

bb---

You are headed down the right path.

There is something very strange going on.

I hear the theme music from the S10den Zone...sounds like banjo music and bib overalls...

..very spooky.

lesterl · 07-12-2008, 08:38 PM

Why are you running 92 octane, these engines were designed for low grade 87 octane?

blackhawkbill · 07-13-2008, 06:39 AM

I figured it might help if fuel/spark was marginal.

If it needed a head gasket, do you think cooling fluid might seep into the cylinders and keep the fuel from igniting? Oil still looks good-not any white crap

lesterl · 07-13-2008, 04:14 PM

Have you tried to start it using an alternate source of fuel you know should combust properly? I.E. Carb Cleaner/ or Starting Fluid. If you suspect a head gasket have you run a compression test? What is the actual gap on the plugs, some dont come gapped properly.

blackhawkbill · 07-13-2008, 06:44 PM

Well, we got it to run today! YEA My buddy noticed the diagram in the Haynes manual looked 90 deg different from the side, so we moved the plug wires around one position and it started. Used plenty of either and it ran good for 5-10 minutes(real smooth). Water pump leaks and steam comes out around the head gasket between #1-2 cylinders on the exhaust side. Now it will start but runs really rough. Had good compression and did not see any white in the oil but at least it starts.

lesterl · 07-13-2008, 08:47 PM

Sounds like you are on the right track, wish I was that close. :-(

Steady Eddie · 07-14-2008, 01:35 AM

Yeaaa! pp was right...plug wires...

92 s10 project · 07-14-2008, 11:33 AM

I did the same damn thing with the plug wires, lol. I just assumed the diagram in the Hanes was from the front/top view like it would be on a v8 but I was wrong! I also made the mistake of trying to do this when I was dead tired, it took me 3 tries before I got the orientation right. I completely forgot that the engine fires 1-3-4-2, not 1-2-3-4 lol. Made me feel like a dumbass!

07-11-2008, 05:23 AM	#1
blackhawkbill Registered User Join Date: Jul 2008 Posts: 28 Location: User is: OffLine	2.5 just won't start I'm pretty new at this. I've been working on my 85 2.5 4 spd, 70K original, it's been in the garage a couple of years. Finally got the fuel pump to work by adding a seperate ground. So i got gas spraying into the TBI. I have spark. Most everything is new(oil& Filter,plugs, wires, O2, coolant temp sensor) Did not change the EGR - MAP -oil press switch. Engine turns but doesn't sound even close to starting. It gives a little popping sound as it turns. Exhaust manifold is getting warm so it seems like there is some detonation in there somewhere. Plugs come out clean and dry. Not sure where to go next. Any ideas?
	[Reply w/Quote]

07-11-2008, 08:21 AM	#2
Steady Eddie Sending Big Oil a Message Join Date: Mar 2008 Posts: 457 Location: The Great Pacific Northwet User is: OffLine	Re: 2.5 just won't start Bill-- Welcome to the Forum... As you know, your truck needs fuel, air, spark and compression to run...sounds like you have them all except maybe enough compression ?? If you ran a compression check and it is OK, then you have entered the (Member) S10den Zone.. Member S10den threw everything but the kitchen sink at his Iron Duke, and NEVER got it to run, wound up putting a V-6 in it...and..there are others here that have entered the Zone and gave up, traded their rigs off...
	[Reply w/Quote]

07-11-2008, 08:40 AM	#3
blackhawkbill Registered User Join Date: Jul 2008 Posts: 28 Location: User is: OffLine	Re: 2.5 just won't start My kid is pushing for a 350 swap. Maybe he's gumming up the works on purpose!
	[Reply w/Quote]

07-11-2008, 10:11 AM	#4
Steady Eddie Sending Big Oil a Message Join Date: Mar 2008 Posts: 457 Location: The Great Pacific Northwet User is: OffLine	Re: 2.5 just won't start You just may have some "outside" help..LOL.. But really, Members here don't know just how good they have it, when their Iron Duke runs well. I know this doesn't help your situation much, but you are among friends here. I am new at the 4-banger S-10 stuff myself. But learning more everyday. I am leaning towards the idea of complete sensor replacement. Buying one sensor each payday, until you get to the point of "knowing" that they are all good and then---something ELSE is stabbing you in the back. Eliminate the possibilities..these are very old rigs now... I wish I had the chance to drive a brand new Iron Duke. Then I'd have a tune-up yardstick to measure by. Is the idle "funny" or just normal for an Iron Duke? Is that noise I hear "normal" or not?? What kind of gas mileage is normal?? Things like that.
	[Reply w/Quote]

07-11-2008, 10:12 AM	#5
puppy power Registered User Join Date: Jul 2008 Posts: 5 Location: User is: OffLine	Re: 2.5 just won't start Maybe double check the wires make sure they are in the right order.... years ago had a problem that my truck wouldn't start when the computor crapped out...(that has happened twice in 18 years and 342,000+ miles They are only 77.00 at advance auto.... Just changed it in mine but it turned out to be just the o2 sensor.....
	[Reply w/Quote]


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07-11-2008, 10:23 AM	#6
Steady Eddie Sending Big Oil a Message Join Date: Mar 2008 Posts: 457 Location: The Great Pacific Northwet User is: OffLine	Re: 2.5 just won't start PP--- Yes, and I am picking up on that little deal, too. There have been many "ills" cured here, by the installation of a new O2 sensor. Bad gas mileage has been fixed. Run-ability issues have been cured, lots of strange stuff from the S-10den Zone...all cured with a new O2 sensor. That is why I believe buying all-new sensors is a good idea. One at a time. Last edited by Steady Eddie : 07-11-2008 at 10:25 AM.
	[Reply w/Quote]

07-11-2008, 12:08 PM	#7
lesterl Wire Splicin Fool :-) Age: 28 Join Date: May 2008 Posts: 869 Location: Kansas City Area User is: OffLine	Re: 2.5 just won't start You say she has been garaged for a few years, have you replaced the old gas yet? Pull the fuel pump fuse and try to start it with some carb cleaner down the TB to verify the compression/ ignition is working fine, if it fires and dies, get the fuel pressure checked and if the gas is years old get rid of it in favor of new gas. Gas separates over time, the volitile part of the gas evaporates off and water will condense in the fuel itself, always a good idea to drain it out after sitting that long. Last edited by lesterl : 07-11-2008 at 12:10 PM.
	[Reply w/Quote]

07-11-2008, 08:22 PM	#8
blackhawkbill Registered User Join Date: Jul 2008 Posts: 28 Location: User is: OffLine	Re: 2.5 just won't start The o2 sensor is new and I completely drained and replaced the gas with 92 octane. i re-did the plug wires last nite, one more time, before I tried to start it I'm going to check compression tomorrow-- just in case I bought this used in 1986 with 11,000 so i've seen and hauled the best this little beast has had to offer.Has always started on the first click-that's why I'm so surprised
	[Reply w/Quote]

07-12-2008, 12:57 AM	#9
Steady Eddie Sending Big Oil a Message Join Date: Mar 2008 Posts: 457 Location: The Great Pacific Northwet User is: OffLine	Re: 2.5 just won't start bb--- You are headed down the right path. There is something very strange going on. I hear the theme music from the S10den Zone...sounds like banjo music and bib overalls.....very spooky. Last edited by Steady Eddie : 07-12-2008 at 12:59 AM.
	[Reply w/Quote]

07-12-2008, 08:38 PM	#10
lesterl Wire Splicin Fool :-) Age: 28 Join Date: May 2008 Posts: 869 Location: Kansas City Area User is: OffLine	Re: 2.5 just won't start Why are you running 92 octane, these engines were designed for low grade 87 octane?
	[Reply w/Quote]

07-13-2008, 06:39 AM	#11
blackhawkbill Registered User Join Date: Jul 2008 Posts: 28 Location: User is: OffLine	Re: 2.5 just won't start I figured it might help if fuel/spark was marginal. If it needed a head gasket, do you think cooling fluid might seep into the cylinders and keep the fuel from igniting? Oil still looks good-not any white crap
	[Reply w/Quote]

07-13-2008, 04:14 PM	#12
lesterl Wire Splicin Fool :-) Age: 28 Join Date: May 2008 Posts: 869 Location: Kansas City Area User is: OffLine	Re: 2.5 just won't start Have you tried to start it using an alternate source of fuel you know should combust properly? I.E. Carb Cleaner/ or Starting Fluid. If you suspect a head gasket have you run a compression test? What is the actual gap on the plugs, some dont come gapped properly.
	[Reply w/Quote]

07-13-2008, 06:44 PM	#13
blackhawkbill Registered User Join Date: Jul 2008 Posts: 28 Location: User is: OffLine	Re: 2.5 just won't start Well, we got it to run today! YEA My buddy noticed the diagram in the Haynes manual looked 90 deg different from the side, so we moved the plug wires around one position and it started. Used plenty of either and it ran good for 5-10 minutes(real smooth). Water pump leaks and steam comes out around the head gasket between #1-2 cylinders on the exhaust side. Now it will start but runs really rough. Had good compression and did not see any white in the oil but at least it starts.
	[Reply w/Quote]

07-13-2008, 08:47 PM	#14
lesterl Wire Splicin Fool :-) Age: 28 Join Date: May 2008 Posts: 869 Location: Kansas City Area User is: OffLine	Re: 2.5 just won't start Sounds like you are on the right track, wish I was that close. :-(
	[Reply w/Quote]

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07-14-2008, 01:35 AM	#15
Steady Eddie Sending Big Oil a Message Join Date: Mar 2008 Posts: 457 Location: The Great Pacific Northwet User is: OffLine	Re: 2.5 just won't start Yeaaa! pp was right...plug wires...
	[Reply w/Quote]

07-14-2008, 11:33 AM	#16
92 s10 project R/C Guru Age: 20 Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 343 Location: St Louis, MO User is: OffLine	Re: 2.5 just won't start I did the same damn thing with the plug wires, lol. I just assumed the diagram in the Hanes was from the front/top view like it would be on a v8 but I was wrong! I also made the mistake of trying to do this when I was dead tired, it took me 3 tries before I got the orientation right. I completely forgot that the engine fires 1-3-4-2, not 1-2-3-4 lol. Made me feel like a dumbass!
	[Reply w/Quote]