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How to: carb swap and keep the 4L60E

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Old 01-29-2011, 08:25 AM   #1
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How to: carb swap and keep the 4L60E

I've seen alot of these threads pop up asking about how to swap a carb and still keep the 4L60E functional.

Here goes.

Here is a how to on how to keep the 4L60E working.
Well, I finished swapping a Carb 350 into my truck, i am using the stock TBI PCM to control the 4L60E. and here is how!
DO NOT ATTEMPT THIS IF YOU HAVE EMISSIONS!
Transmission Control Via TBI PCM:
First off, Here is what the PCM needs to operate the 4L60E
-VSS
-CTS
-TPS
-A RPM Signal

I am running a Stock GM HEI distributor, and it is what i would recommend for a similar swap, I WOULD NOT keep the TBI Distributor, you have no clue as to what the PCM is gonna do without seeing fuel.
Now with a TBI engine, there is no crank sensor telling the PCM if its running.
It took me about a week to figure out what to do, but when i did its easy as 123.
1.Find the plug that used to plug into the Distributor and lead to the PCM.
2.Find the Purple/White wire
3. Take Wire and run it into the TACH position on your HEI Distributor.
4. Done!

Here's the TPS kit I used.
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/HLY-534-202/


So now that your 4L60E is working, lets carry onto Fuel.
Fuel:
Here is what i used.
-Stock TBI In-tank Pump
-Holley 12-803BP ByPass Regulator (http://www.summitracing.com/parts/HLY-12-803BP/)
-Marshall 0-15PSI Gauge, (Not shown)
It is VERY Important that if you are keeping the stock pump, you HAVE to have a return, i dont care what anyone else says, just capping off the return is gonna kill the pump, THE RETURN IS THERE TO COOL THE PUMP!.
Picture of my setup.

I used the stock TBI Fuel Lines, i just bent them a bit and cut off the fittings and installed some new ones.
I then ran a hose barb out the left side to the carb
at first it ran great, but i still wanted to check my PSI, so i added a gauge. using some fittings we had laying around, i dont have any pictures of it, sorry.
I found that my demon likes 6.5-7PSI. and the Holley Regulator is factory set at 5PSI.
After this, the engine ran very well, i would recommend this swap to anyone wanting a bit more out of their engine.
Old 01-30-2011, 05:38 PM   #2
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Re: How to: carb swap and keep the 4L60E

Quote: Originally Posted by Brain
First off, Here is what the PCM needs to operate the 4L60E
-VSS
-CTS
-TPS
-A RPM Signal
cool been looking for other ppl running their stock ecm's as tranny units

can you post some stats of your engine? and did you change your torque converter to the high stall 'vett one? been looking at that as an option for my build rather then spending 700 bucks on one for the 4l60E ><

and i'm assuming your using the VSS from the tranny correct?
Old 01-31-2011, 05:32 AM   #3
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Re: How to: carb swap and keep the 4L60E

Quote: Originally Posted by zeldalord
cool been looking for other ppl running their stock ecm's as tranny units

can you post some stats of your engine? and did you change your torque converter to the high stall 'vett one? been looking at that as an option for my build rather then spending 700 bucks on one for the 4l60E ><

and i'm assuming your using the VSS from the tranny correct?
The motor is an 85 Monte Carlo SS 305 HO, bored .30 over, flat tops, 801 heads with some flow work, RPM intake, holley 600 carb, Lunati VooDoo cam.



I'm running a stock S-10 converter for now, and yep, runnin the vss off the trans.
Old 01-31-2011, 03:00 PM   #4
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Re: How to: carb swap and keep the 4L60E

did you end up keeping the stock wiring so as not to rewire everything? i would love to get rid of this huge bundle of wire loom going above the engine bay but i really don't want to rewire the whole truck back to the fuse box atm :P

also, the VSS... do you happen to know if the tach signal from computer is usable as to a aftermarket tach system? as in just re-terminate the wire that used to go to the gague cluster and be able to run it up to your tach.
Old 01-31-2011, 03:22 PM   #5
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Re: How to: carb swap and keep the 4L60E

might as well post over here in this thread and make it the main one...

i was looking at your TPS and trying to figure a way to do it on my Holley... but i don't see where i can tie it in at on the Holley cuz there is so much crap with the linkages and the choke in the way...

but i know there is somewhere to tie in at cuz the summit / jegs kit shows a cam button that is supposed to addapt it to fit somewhere and the TPS unit mounts on top of the choke... i gota do some research here... it can't be hard to do.
Old 01-31-2011, 09:35 PM   #6
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Re: How to: carb swap and keep the 4L60E

I didn't rewire anything, I keprt all the vitals like, volt, oil pressure, temp, speed alllike the factory had it. I also kept all my fuel injection, egr, and all other wiring just like GM manufactured it.
The only thing I had to do was install a pigtial from the old distributor and tied it into the HEI dizzy, factory tach funtion like it always did.

Most people modify the primary shaft to mount the TPS to, it'll keep it out of the way off your linkages.
Old 01-31-2011, 09:44 PM   #7
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Re: How to: carb swap and keep the 4L60E





Old 02-01-2011, 03:43 AM   #8
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Re: How to: carb swap and keep the 4L60E

ok... what is that? reducer nipple?
Old 02-01-2011, 05:31 AM   #9
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Re: How to: carb swap and keep the 4L60E

That's the modded shaft adapter, I didn't use that particular setup.
That was a modded shaft and TPS, since there wasn't a TPS kit available when he did his swap he made one work for his application.

I run Demon or Holley carbs so the TPS kit works for me, but it's not necessary. Pretty much any TPS would work as long as you can find some way to mount it to your carb.
Old 02-01-2011, 10:46 PM   #10
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Re: How to: carb swap and keep the 4L60E

Would it be possible to use the stock TPS from the stock TB? Just curious. I was just going to rechip my PCM and retain the fuel injection, but I have an HEI dizzy and 600 Eddy not being used at the moment.
Old 02-02-2011, 05:03 AM   #11
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Re: How to: carb swap and keep the 4L60E

Quote: Originally Posted by Rusty Hick
Would it be possible to use the stock TPS from the stock TB? Just curious. I was just going to rechip my PCM and retain the fuel injection, but I have an HEI dizzy and 600 Eddy not being used at the moment.
Yep, you just have to find or make a way to attach it to the primary shaft.
That's what the guy in the above pics did for his Edelbrock

That's the upside to running a carb, if you want to upgrade anything like cam or heads or whatever, no need for another rechip. Just install it and go.

Downside is a little less gas mileage and cold starts. I've had mine swapped for about a year now with now problems at all. I hit the gas twice and it fires up everytime.
Old 04-01-2011, 09:30 PM   #12
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Re: How to: carb swap and keep the 4L60E

I have a 93 S10 Blazer and it has CPI and a 4l60e. Can I do the same thing or do I need to do more?
Old 04-01-2011, 09:35 PM   #13
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Re: How to: carb swap and keep the 4L60E

Also can I keep the stock in-tank pump and just use a bypass regulator or does my pump run too high of a PSI for that? Thank you for putting this up on here. I had always thought there has to be a cheaper way than spending $700 on a stand alone unit.
Old 04-02-2011, 01:42 AM   #14
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Re: How to: carb swap and keep the 4L60E

Quote: Originally Posted by Bowtied
Also can I keep the stock in-tank pump and just use a bypass regulator or does my pump run too high of a PSI for that? Thank you for putting this up on here. I had always thought there has to be a cheaper way than spending $700 on a stand alone unit.
nah its fine, ur just going to want a regulator that can A: handle the pressure (33 +/-) and B: drop it to 5-7psi... you already seem to understand the bypass so just for anyone else, you can't use a deadhead system with that much pressure, causes all sorts of problems after a short time
Old 08-03-2011, 08:20 AM   #15
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Re: How to: carb swap and keep the 4L60E

good work.


you may want to add that you have to use a 93-95 tbi pcm only.
Old 08-03-2011, 01:06 PM   #16
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Re: How to: carb swap and keep the 4L60E

??? I've read about people doing this mod with all different kinds of PCM's/previous setups. As long as the 4L60E gets the signals it needs it should function as it always did. Am I not understanding correctly?
Old 08-03-2011, 01:18 PM   #17
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Re: How to: carb swap and keep the 4L60E

Nope, the 93-95 is the only tbi ecm (from the trucks) that has the ability to control transmissions in stock form.
Old 08-03-2011, 03:53 PM   #18
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Re: How to: carb swap and keep the 4L60E

That's strange. I've seen many second gen guys who have kept their 4L60E's and stock guages using the Holley TPS kit.
Old 08-03-2011, 04:05 PM   #19
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Re: How to: carb swap and keep the 4L60E

I'm assuming this will only work with OBD1 tranmissions as well. And sometime in 95, some TBI's have OBD1.5, so the computer is under the hood. I'm assuming that those will not work as well as the OBD2 computers.

And CPI's use the same computer if they are OBD1, but they have a different chip in them and of course a different wiring setup.
Old 08-03-2011, 06:50 PM   #20
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Re: How to: carb swap and keep the 4L60E

Quote: Originally Posted by drggnskeeter
That's strange. I've seen many second gen guys who have kept their 4L60E's and stock guages using the Holley TPS kit.

What does that have to do with what year ecm they used? The tps kit is just one part of the setup.
Old 08-03-2011, 07:38 PM   #21
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Re: How to: carb swap and keep the 4L60E

Ok no need to get your pannies in a wad about it! I was just clarifying because I'm in the middle of a similar swap myself. So say someone with a second gen found a 93-95 TBI PCM for they're setup. How would he go about getting his guages and other 98-up accesories to work? Not trying to be a d!ck, I'm genuinly curious because I'm installing my carbed 355/4L60E combo this weekend.
Old 08-03-2011, 08:30 PM   #22
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Re: How to: carb swap and keep the 4L60E

It'll work no matter the PCM, I figured it out with help of other build threads.

When I first wanted to do the swap I researched various forums, and found trucks from all years that had been carb swapped.

Here's a guy that did an 04 Silvarado, I tried to find his build thread but, he did same setup. Fatory PCM, TPS kit, regulator, and carb.

http://www.fullsizechevy.com/forum/g...uel-lines.html
Old 08-03-2011, 11:36 PM   #23
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Re: How to: carb swap and keep the 4L60E

Quote: Originally Posted by drggnskeeter
Ok no need to get your pannies in a wad about it! I was just clarifying because I'm in the middle of a similar swap myself. So say someone with a second gen found a 93-95 TBI PCM for they're setup. How would he go about getting his guages and other 98-up accesories to work? Not trying to be a d!ck, I'm genuinly curious because I'm installing my carbed 355/4L60E combo this weekend.
hahah i wasnt getting mad.


Brain - Did you use a pre 93 ecm?

Do you know anyone else who used a pre 93 ecm? Post a link, i wanna see it.
Old 10-22-2011, 11:21 PM   #24
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Re: How to: carb swap and keep the 4L60E

Quote: Originally Posted by superbee

Brain - Did you use a pre 93 ecm?

Do you know anyone else who used a pre 93 ecm? Post a link, i wanna see it.
Yes I did use a pre 93 ECM, I did this swap in a 92 fullsize 1500.

Here's the build thread/ how to that a guy did on his 04 Silverado.

http://www.fullsizechevy.com/forum/g...swap-tech.html

I think you're problem drggnsketter is the Crank position sensor, if the PCM does not see a crank signal it will send it into limp mode and you'll be stuck in second gear.
Old 10-24-2011, 12:01 AM   #25
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Re: How to: carb swap and keep the 4L60E

sooo, stupid question. this thread has confused me, i can or cannot use the stock pcm from my 2000 4.3 truck?? If yes, is the wire still purple/white?
Old 10-24-2011, 12:14 AM   #26
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Re: How to: carb swap and keep the 4L60E

also, CTS??? What's this and where does the pcm get this signal??
Old 10-24-2011, 04:40 AM   #27
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Re: How to: carb swap and keep the 4L60E

You can run any PCM you want, click the last link I posted, he used his factory 2004 PCM in his swap.

CTS= Coolant Temperature Sensor.
In the drivers side head.
Old 10-24-2011, 10:29 AM   #28
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Re: How to: carb swap and keep the 4L60E

Yeah I've been Emailing back and forth with a guy who has successfully done this swap in a 98-up s truck. He said he sent the engine speed signal from the tach position on the HEI cap to the OE cam position sensor and everything worked as it always did. I was sending it to the crank position sensor and it was acting crazy so I'm going to give this a shot today hopefully and see how it goes.
Old 10-26-2011, 05:43 PM   #29
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Re: How to: carb swap and keep the 4L60E

okay, so is the wire the same color? i can connect an hei distributor to the cam position sensor wires, leave the vss alone on the stock trans, the coolant temp switch (the stock one from my 4.3L work?) and mock up my tps switch to my qjet? thanks guys.
Old 10-26-2011, 06:29 PM   #30
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Re: How to: carb swap and keep the 4L60E

Yes to everything. And your tach wire depends on what motor you had originally and what year your truck was. Mine (an '02 OE w a 4.3/4L60E) went from 'tach' position on HEI to pin 73 on C1 (Blue PCM Connector.) That was actually a brown wire with a white stripe. You can go to the electrical section and click on the wiring diagrams sticky to see a diagram of your truck so you know exactly where to send it. Or you can go to Autozone.com and see simple wire diagrams there. All you need to do is run it to your OE cam position sensor wire. As a disclaimer, I haven't driven my truck since I tried this because my starter went out. I'll update after payday lol.
Old 10-26-2011, 06:44 PM   #31
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Re: How to: carb swap and keep the 4L60E

Quote: Originally Posted by brain
yes i did use a pre 93 ecm, i did this swap in a 92 fullsize 1500.

Here's the build thread/ how to that a guy did on his 04 silverado.

http://www.fullsizechevy.com/forum/g...swap-tech.html

i think you're problem drggnsketter is the crank position sensor, if the pcm does not see a crank signal it will send it into limp mode and you'll be stuck in second gear.

tHAT IS NOT A PRE 93 ECM!!
Old 10-26-2011, 09:49 PM   #32
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Re: How to: carb swap and keep the 4L60E

?? Yeah we're aware of that. We've been trying to work out a way fro this to work for the 98-up guys.
Old 10-26-2011, 10:07 PM   #33
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Re: How to: carb swap and keep the 4L60E

THis thread was not specific to making this work with 98+ trucks.


IT was a thread of how to get your truck to run a 4l60E with a carb!

Many times it has been said you can use ANY ecm. Im telling you NO YOU CANT. has to be 93 and up. I know that doesnt concern YOU but when someone else reads this thread and says: sweet, I can get my 90 tbi s10 to run a 4l60e with a carb, what do I do? Well now they know it has to be 93 and up.


That is all I was saying, i made that simple comment, then people had to argue.
Old 10-27-2011, 04:03 PM   #34
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Re: How to: carb swap and keep the 4L60E

Ok,

The first post was a how-to for the 97-down guys to make their 4L60E's work with their new V8 engines. Since that had already been covered, the three of us were trying to figure out a way for this to work for the 98-up guys seeing as I know a guy who has already done it and that it is, in fact, possible. I was then going to make a second how-to for the late model S10/Blazer/Jimmy/Sonoma owners.

As far as the 93-up issue goes, what you actually said was, "you may want to add that you have to use a 93-95 tbi pcm only." That wasn't completely true then and it still isn't. It does not matter what type of PCM you use. It could be TBI, SEFI, CPI, MPI, yadda yadda yadda.

As far as the year issue goes, you may be right with the pre 93 deal. But then again, before 1993 4L60E's weren't used. Your vehicle would have come with a 700R4 so none of this would apply in the first place. Also 95 has nothing to do with it either because it's already been successfully completed on vehicles newer than 1995.

What it boils down to is if your vehicle had a 4L60E in it, whatever computer it is that came in your vehicle can be made to control your original 4L60E. Ultimately, as long as the OE computer is receiving the proper signals, it will control the electronic transmission accordingly. Now if you're trying to retrofit a 4L60E into an older vehicle for some crazy reason, well that's a completely different ball game.

And I don't think anyone, including myself, was trying to argue with you but you were very vague in your responses. I think maybe we all should have been a little more specific and there wouldn't have been any confusion.
Old 10-27-2011, 07:31 PM   #35
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Re: How to: carb swap and keep the 4L60E

Ok couldnt agree with you more.


And by 93-95, i was using those years to specify the TBI setups, not as a whole in general. Thats where the 95 came in to play.

And yes, a 4l60e retrofit is what i had in mind since alot of people would like to have one in an older vehical.
Old 10-27-2011, 08:00 PM   #36
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Re: How to: carb swap and keep the 4L60E

Cool glad we're on the same page now. Yeah in the first post Brain was describing how to 'keep' your 4L60E. So I see where our thinking went different directions. I think anyone who wants to retrofit an electronic transmission into an older vehicle is plum crazy. Considering swap costs, wiring frustrations, and the overall complexity of a computer controlled transmission, I would easily have gone the 700R4 route if I didn't already have this transmission and if I had a slightly different budget and timeframe for completion.
Old 10-31-2011, 10:30 AM   #37
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Re: How to: carb swap and keep the 4L60E

So if I'm reading correct, you can use any year sbc and retain the 4l60e by following the op? I would like to go with a set of aluminum heads to save weight but can I use the accessories off my 4.3? Such as my ps ac and pulleys
Old 10-31-2011, 05:38 PM   #38
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Re: How to: carb swap and keep the 4L60E

Look and see if they have the THREE mounting holes on the end of the head. IF so, you can use the 4.3 accsessories.
Old 11-04-2011, 01:16 PM   #39
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Re: How to: carb swap and keep the 4L60E

Quote: Originally Posted by superbee
Look and see if they have the THREE mounting holes on the end of the head. IF so, you can use the 4.3 accsessories.
Thanks,

Am I confusing myself,I've been rereading this and it sound's like I have to change my pcm. My trucks a 2000 With a vortec motor
Old 11-07-2011, 12:09 PM   #40
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Re: How to: carb swap and keep the 4L60E

i have a stupid question? this is the frist time i have used the 4l60e and im doing my swap. is it worth all this to use the trans?
Old 11-07-2011, 06:08 PM   #41
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Re: How to: carb swap and keep the 4L60E

Quote: Originally Posted by bagged_96_s10
i have a stupid question? this is the frist time i have used the 4l60e and im doing my swap. is it worth all this to use the trans?
i want to do it to keep the use of my factory gauges as well. then all ill really need is a small shift light hidden somewhere for a nice clean factory look with v8 power

Hum thinking of that , running this setup prob throws a CEL so i wonder if i can use that as my shift light somehow hooked up to a msd box
Old 07-07-2013, 08:58 PM   #42
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Re: How to: carb swap and keep the 4L60E

Ok heres what I have: 95 s10 4X4 had a vortec 4.3 cpi (what I call a multi-port intake) with a 4l60e. I changed the 4.3 with a 5.7 vortec carb motor, with stock hei dist. I cut the plug to the old dist. and got the hot wire from it. Tryed the other two wires on the tach side and neither would make the tach work. I'm not running a crank sensor the only sensors i'm using are the oil pressure, temp sensor and my charging gague. I have the summit tps on the way to install it. I can hook one of the old dist. wires to the tach side and the engine will not start the other wire does nothing.
Old 07-08-2013, 10:42 PM   #43
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Re: How to: carb swap and keep the 4L60E

I checked today and my 95 did not have a purple and white wire on the dist. plug. So now I;m lost again
Old 12-21-2013, 11:26 PM   #44
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Re: How to: carb swap and keep the 4L60E

so i am going to a 400 sbc and what to keep the 4l60e transmission and the factory computer and it needs the following readings for the vss,cts,tps and rpm does the 400sbc have a cts sensor on it to send that signal to the computer or do u have to add one aswell as the tps would come off the carb or throttle but what about the rpm do i take that off the new distributer and where do i connect those to as my truck is coils as of now thx and i have the 2.2L do the front coils and shocks of the 4.3 bolt up to the 2.2 control arms or do i have to replace all suspension components in the front thx
Old 12-26-2013, 01:09 PM   #45
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Re: How to: carb swap and keep the 4L60E

I am grabbing my popcorn, because I too want to make this work with an original 2.2L auto truck to make all my gauges work. This makes the tach read correct for an 8cyl signal?
Old 01-22-2014, 08:56 AM   #46
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Re: How to: carb swap and keep the 4L60E

So my 94 doesnt have a tach, is this a issue?
Old 03-02-2014, 02:06 AM   #47
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Re: How to: carb swap and keep the 4L60E

what if i want to retain my tbi but add 4l60e to a 5speed truck? use a auto trans ecm from same year truck?
Old 05-18-2014, 09:38 PM   #48
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Re: How to: carb swap and keep the 4L60E

DySfUnCtIoNa were can I get a modded shaft adapter, as in pitchure with hand.
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