ebay heads

monkeydude3602000 · 02-07-2010, 10:37 PM

worth a shit?

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/350-3...fAc cessories

how would they compare to vortec heads? im trying to figure out which heads to chose...

monkeydude3602000 · 02-08-2010, 10:15 AM

comon, ebay parts, and noone has an opinion! lol. seriosuly, hasnt anyone used these?

bbcc · 02-08-2010, 01:34 PM

You get what you pay for man. This pic says it all.

http://i17.ebayimg.com/02/i/001/2c/40/386a_12.JPG

karvounas · 02-08-2010, 01:49 PM

Quote: Originally Posted by bbcc

You get what you pay for man. This pic says it all.

http://i17.ebayimg.com/02/i/001/2c/40/386a_12.JPG

nice link. thanks for the post.

Maverick2664 · 02-08-2010, 07:05 PM

ive built quite a number of engines using those pro comp heads, and i have to say that im pretty impressed with them, i never thought that as cheap as they are that they would perform as well as they do... even though that listing is WAY more than my shop pays for them, i still say buy them, you wont regret it...

Chevhead89 · 02-08-2010, 07:13 PM

i would rather buy the patriots then those procomps...

Formulakid1 · 02-08-2010, 11:39 PM

650.00 for a complete set of alum SBC heads.....no thanks.

monkeydude3602000 · 02-09-2010, 11:34 AM

Would these heads or even vortec heads make too much compression for boost? I want to get a supercharger, and that will be my next project after the engine work. Im still just trying to decide on the heads right now. And I want something that will work later with the blower...

Maverick2664 · 02-09-2010, 12:33 PM

those particular heads are too much yeah, for blown applications you want somewhere around 8-9:1, the lower the better so you can pack more boost into it... you want a bigger chamber in the heads and dished pistons for what youre doing

bbcc · 02-09-2010, 04:07 PM

Quote: Originally Posted by Maverick2664

those particular heads are too much yeah, for blown applications you want somewhere around 8-9:1, the lower the better so you can pack more boost into it... you want a bigger chamber in the heads and dished pistons for what youre doing

Have to disagree with you a bit there. By dropping compression you are lowering the efficiency of combustion. When you create a larger area of air/fuel that needs to burn in the same amount of time as a smaller area complete combustion becomes very hard. Many boost engines now, regardless of the means, are running a bit higher static compression. Typicly in the 9-9.5 range. This is with around 20 psi. The higher static compression also helps with the off boost performance of the engine.

Those heads would be "ok" if you bought them bare and did some nice porting and a nice vj, then filled them with good parts. What gets me is the springs shipped are for a "hyd or solid roller" but only good for .6" lift. The pic looks like the spings are of a decent diameter, so why the low lift value. I'm thinking the spring pocket is very shallow = low installed height. Possibly because there isn't a whole lot under the pocket before you hit water. This is why some of the cheap heads are more trouble then they are worth. Hiddin shit that pops up when you try and make them usable. And for a 210cc runner those flow numbers are brutal. I'd save my pennys and go into an entry level edelbrock or rhs head.

Maverick2664 · 02-09-2010, 05:34 PM

Quote: Originally Posted by bbcc

Have to disagree with you a bit there. By dropping compression you are lowering the efficiency of combustion. When you create a larger area of air/fuel that needs to burn in the same amount of time as a smaller area complete combustion becomes very hard. Many boost engines now, regardless of the means, are running a bit higher static compression. Typicly in the 9-9.5 range. This is with around 20 psi. The higher static compression also helps with the off boost performance of the engine.

Those heads would be "ok" if you bought them bare and did some nice porting and a nice vj, then filled them with good parts. What gets me is the springs shipped are for a "hyd or solid roller" but only good for .6" lift. The pic looks like the spings are of a decent diameter, so why the low lift value. I'm thinking the spring pocket is very shallow = low installed height. Possibly because there isn't a whole lot under the pocket before you hit water. This is why some of the cheap heads are more trouble then they are worth. Hiddin shit that pops up when you try and make them usable. And for a 210cc runner those flow numbers are brutal. I'd save my pennys and go into an entry level edelbrock or rhs head.

im calling bullshit

9:1 @ 20 psi gives you a final compression ratio of 21.2:1
9.5:1 @ 20 is 22.4:1

unless youre running alchohol, you WILL be melting down pistons...

for a street engine theres no reason you should need to run any more than 12-14 psi, and for that your CR should be down around 7:1

look up some boost ratio charts

Formulakid1 · 02-09-2010, 06:02 PM

Quote: Originally Posted by Maverick2664

im calling bullshit

9:1 @ 20 psi gives you a final compression ratio of 21.2:1
9.5:1 @ 20 is 22.4:1

unless youre running alchohol, you WILL be melting down pistons...

for a street engine theres no reason you should need to run any more than 12-14 psi, and for that your CR should be down around 7:1

look up some boost ratio charts

In the real world, most of your fast turbo guys are running 9-9.5: CR with 20 psi at the track on race gas, and then it is backed down to around 10-14 psi for the street and pump gas.

bbcc · 02-09-2010, 06:03 PM

Boost ratio charts only go so far dude. Dynamic boost compression is important. Also timing, MON, chamber design, quench area, stroke, camshaft event timing, IAT, etc. You will not be melting down pistons if you run a well thought out combo using quality parts. I agree, most sbc's have no need to be running more than 15 psi with any sort of forced induction on the street. There is very little chance of hooking all that power. But 7.0:1 static is obscene. It will be a dog off boost, and you will leave a tonne of power (yes metric) on the table.

monkeydude3602000 · 02-10-2010, 10:32 AM

Quote: Originally Posted by Maverick2664

im calling bullshit

9:1 @ 20 psi gives you a final compression ratio of 21.2:1
9.5:1 @ 20 is 22.4:1

unless youre running alchohol, you WILL be melting down pistons...

for a street engine theres no reason you should need to run any more than 12-14 psi, and for that your CR should be down around 7:1

look up some boost ratio charts

Look I dont know a whole lot about boost and CRs but im pretty sure my PT has more compression than that and its set from the factory at 12psi. Ive had it up to 15 or 16 psi and a buddy of mine had a srt4 with the same engine running 24psi with a AGP setup on factory internals with no issues. So 7:1 seems quite low to me. I figured you guys would suggest something in the high 8s, but not 7:1... If I had my compression that low Ide be lucky if the blower compensated for the power loss and I had the same horse is a stock motor as I will probably only be running like 6psi.

But it answer my own question, I think those heads would work fine with a blower. Al emailed me back and suggested vortec heads. So I dont think the 64cc chambers will cause any problems.

And Im thinking about just buying those heads bare and building them...

Maverick2664 · 02-10-2010, 11:37 AM

hmm.. still having a hard time wrapping my head around using higher compression ratios with an obscene amount of boost and not having the engine blow apart... but if it works, it works... up until now ive always been told that you cant run a ton of psi with a small chamber.. i guess thats just the old way of doing things

monkeydude3602000 · 02-10-2010, 12:15 PM

Quote: Originally Posted by Maverick2664

hmm.. still having a hard time wrapping my head around using higher compression ratios with an obscene amount of boost and not having the engine blow apart... but if it works, it works... up until now ive always been told that you cant run a ton of psi with a small chamber.. i guess thats just the old way of doing things

Well I can understand your theory with an "obscene" amount of boost. But rethink this. We are talking about a wynjammer here. They dont make "obscene" amounts of boost. I wont even achieve as much boost as my factory turbo engine in my car. Therefore I dont see why small combustion chambers will cause me to many problems...

S15vortecpwr · 02-10-2010, 02:20 PM

THE twin turbo BMW engine run around 10.5:1 compression. they also use direct injection for their fuel delivery, The turbos only produce about 9-10 psi on stk programming. the new v8 turbo is pushing 550hp. the twin 3.0 6 cyl is pushing 300 hp all in stk trim. A little prgoramming on the I6 produces about 350hp with 12-14 psai of boost.

Like stated it really vaires on which ignition, cam, fuel delivery and computer you run as to what compression you need to run,

02-07-2010, 10:37 PM	#1
monkeydude3602000 I just ate a honda. Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 1,276 Location: Princeton, Ky User is: OffLine	ebay heads worth a shit? http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/350-3...fAc cessories how would they compare to vortec heads? im trying to figure out which heads to chose...
	[Reply w/Quote]

02-08-2010, 10:15 AM	#2
monkeydude3602000 I just ate a honda. Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 1,276 Location: Princeton, Ky User is: OffLine	Re: ebay heads comon, ebay parts, and noone has an opinion! lol. seriosuly, hasnt anyone used these?
	[Reply w/Quote]

02-08-2010, 01:34 PM	#3
bbcc dark side member Age: 21 Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 442 Location: Edmonton User is: OffLine	Re: ebay heads You get what you pay for man. This pic says it all. http://i17.ebayimg.com/02/i/001/2c/40/386a_12.JPG
	[Reply w/Quote]

02-08-2010, 01:49 PM	#4
karvounas Registered User Join Date: Feb 2010 Posts: 25 Location: User is: OffLine	Re: ebay heads Quote: Originally Posted by bbcc You get what you pay for man. This pic says it all. http://i17.ebayimg.com/02/i/001/2c/40/386a_12.JPG nice link. thanks for the post.
	[Reply w/Quote]

02-08-2010, 07:05 PM	#5
Maverick2664 Heavy Metal Body Man Age: 25 Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 3,135 Location: Erie PA User is: OffLine	Re: ebay heads ive built quite a number of engines using those pro comp heads, and i have to say that im pretty impressed with them, i never thought that as cheap as they are that they would perform as well as they do... even though that listing is WAY more than my shop pays for them, i still say buy them, you wont regret it...
	[Reply w/Quote]

02-08-2010, 07:13 PM	#6
Chevhead89 Registered User Join Date: Aug 2008 Posts: 606 Location: Cocoa, Fl User is: Online	Re: ebay heads i would rather buy the patriots then those procomps...
	[Reply w/Quote]

02-08-2010, 11:39 PM	#7
Formulakid1 10 sec. street truck!!! Age: 33 Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 1,603 Location: Mississippi User is: OffLine	Re: ebay heads 650.00 for a complete set of alum SBC heads.....no thanks.
	[Reply w/Quote]

02-09-2010, 11:34 AM	#8
monkeydude3602000 I just ate a honda. Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 1,276 Location: Princeton, Ky User is: OffLine	Re: ebay heads Would these heads or even vortec heads make too much compression for boost? I want to get a supercharger, and that will be my next project after the engine work. Im still just trying to decide on the heads right now. And I want something that will work later with the blower...
	[Reply w/Quote]

02-09-2010, 12:33 PM	#9
Maverick2664 Heavy Metal Body Man Age: 25 Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 3,135 Location: Erie PA User is: OffLine	Re: ebay heads those particular heads are too much yeah, for blown applications you want somewhere around 8-9:1, the lower the better so you can pack more boost into it... you want a bigger chamber in the heads and dished pistons for what youre doing
	[Reply w/Quote]

02-09-2010, 04:07 PM	#10
bbcc dark side member Age: 21 Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 442 Location: Edmonton User is: OffLine	Re: ebay heads Quote: Originally Posted by Maverick2664 those particular heads are too much yeah, for blown applications you want somewhere around 8-9:1, the lower the better so you can pack more boost into it... you want a bigger chamber in the heads and dished pistons for what youre doing Have to disagree with you a bit there. By dropping compression you are lowering the efficiency of combustion. When you create a larger area of air/fuel that needs to burn in the same amount of time as a smaller area complete combustion becomes very hard. Many boost engines now, regardless of the means, are running a bit higher static compression. Typicly in the 9-9.5 range. This is with around 20 psi. The higher static compression also helps with the off boost performance of the engine. Those heads would be "ok" if you bought them bare and did some nice porting and a nice vj, then filled them with good parts. What gets me is the springs shipped are for a "hyd or solid roller" but only good for .6" lift. The pic looks like the spings are of a decent diameter, so why the low lift value. I'm thinking the spring pocket is very shallow = low installed height. Possibly because there isn't a whole lot under the pocket before you hit water. This is why some of the cheap heads are more trouble then they are worth. Hiddin shit that pops up when you try and make them usable. And for a 210cc runner those flow numbers are brutal. I'd save my pennys and go into an entry level edelbrock or rhs head.
	[Reply w/Quote]

02-09-2010, 05:34 PM	#11
Maverick2664 Heavy Metal Body Man Age: 25 Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 3,135 Location: Erie PA User is: OffLine	Re: ebay heads Quote: Originally Posted by bbcc Have to disagree with you a bit there. By dropping compression you are lowering the efficiency of combustion. When you create a larger area of air/fuel that needs to burn in the same amount of time as a smaller area complete combustion becomes very hard. Many boost engines now, regardless of the means, are running a bit higher static compression. Typicly in the 9-9.5 range. This is with around 20 psi. The higher static compression also helps with the off boost performance of the engine. Those heads would be "ok" if you bought them bare and did some nice porting and a nice vj, then filled them with good parts. What gets me is the springs shipped are for a "hyd or solid roller" but only good for .6" lift. The pic looks like the spings are of a decent diameter, so why the low lift value. I'm thinking the spring pocket is very shallow = low installed height. Possibly because there isn't a whole lot under the pocket before you hit water. This is why some of the cheap heads are more trouble then they are worth. Hiddin shit that pops up when you try and make them usable. And for a 210cc runner those flow numbers are brutal. I'd save my pennys and go into an entry level edelbrock or rhs head. im calling bullshit 9:1 @ 20 psi gives you a final compression ratio of 21.2:1 9.5:1 @ 20 is 22.4:1 unless youre running alchohol, you WILL be melting down pistons... for a street engine theres no reason you should need to run any more than 12-14 psi, and for that your CR should be down around 7:1 look up some boost ratio charts
	[Reply w/Quote]

02-09-2010, 06:02 PM	#12
Formulakid1 10 sec. street truck!!! Age: 33 Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 1,603 Location: Mississippi User is: OffLine	Re: ebay heads Quote: Originally Posted by Maverick2664 im calling bullshit 9:1 @ 20 psi gives you a final compression ratio of 21.2:1 9.5:1 @ 20 is 22.4:1 unless youre running alchohol, you WILL be melting down pistons... for a street engine theres no reason you should need to run any more than 12-14 psi, and for that your CR should be down around 7:1 look up some boost ratio charts In the real world, most of your fast turbo guys are running 9-9.5: CR with 20 psi at the track on race gas, and then it is backed down to around 10-14 psi for the street and pump gas.
	[Reply w/Quote]

02-09-2010, 06:03 PM	#13
bbcc dark side member Age: 21 Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 442 Location: Edmonton User is: OffLine	Re: ebay heads Boost ratio charts only go so far dude. Dynamic boost compression is important. Also timing, MON, chamber design, quench area, stroke, camshaft event timing, IAT, etc. You will not be melting down pistons if you run a well thought out combo using quality parts. I agree, most sbc's have no need to be running more than 15 psi with any sort of forced induction on the street. There is very little chance of hooking all that power. But 7.0:1 static is obscene. It will be a dog off boost, and you will leave a tonne of power (yes metric) on the table.
	[Reply w/Quote]

02-10-2010, 10:32 AM	#14
monkeydude3602000 I just ate a honda. Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 1,276 Location: Princeton, Ky User is: OffLine	Re: ebay heads Quote: Originally Posted by Maverick2664 im calling bullshit 9:1 @ 20 psi gives you a final compression ratio of 21.2:1 9.5:1 @ 20 is 22.4:1 unless youre running alchohol, you WILL be melting down pistons... for a street engine theres no reason you should need to run any more than 12-14 psi, and for that your CR should be down around 7:1 look up some boost ratio charts Look I dont know a whole lot about boost and CRs but im pretty sure my PT has more compression than that and its set from the factory at 12psi. Ive had it up to 15 or 16 psi and a buddy of mine had a srt4 with the same engine running 24psi with a AGP setup on factory internals with no issues. So 7:1 seems quite low to me. I figured you guys would suggest something in the high 8s, but not 7:1... If I had my compression that low Ide be lucky if the blower compensated for the power loss and I had the same horse is a stock motor as I will probably only be running like 6psi. But it answer my own question, I think those heads would work fine with a blower. Al emailed me back and suggested vortec heads. So I dont think the 64cc chambers will cause any problems. And Im thinking about just buying those heads bare and building them...
	[Reply w/Quote]

02-10-2010, 11:37 AM	#15
Maverick2664 Heavy Metal Body Man Age: 25 Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 3,135 Location: Erie PA User is: OffLine	Re: ebay heads hmm.. still having a hard time wrapping my head around using higher compression ratios with an obscene amount of boost and not having the engine blow apart... but if it works, it works... up until now ive always been told that you cant run a ton of psi with a small chamber.. i guess thats just the old way of doing things
	[Reply w/Quote]

02-10-2010, 12:15 PM	#16
monkeydude3602000 I just ate a honda. Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 1,276 Location: Princeton, Ky User is: OffLine	Re: ebay heads Quote: Originally Posted by Maverick2664 hmm.. still having a hard time wrapping my head around using higher compression ratios with an obscene amount of boost and not having the engine blow apart... but if it works, it works... up until now ive always been told that you cant run a ton of psi with a small chamber.. i guess thats just the old way of doing things Well I can understand your theory with an "obscene" amount of boost. But rethink this. We are talking about a wynjammer here. They dont make "obscene" amounts of boost. I wont even achieve as much boost as my factory turbo engine in my car. Therefore I dont see why small combustion chambers will cause me to many problems...
	[Reply w/Quote]

02-10-2010, 02:20 PM	#17
S15vortecpwr goin broke but n style Age: 29 Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 3,783 Location: Wetumpka, Alabama User is: OffLine	Re: ebay heads THE twin turbo BMW engine run around 10.5:1 compression. they also use direct injection for their fuel delivery, The turbos only produce about 9-10 psi on stk programming. the new v8 turbo is pushing 550hp. the twin 3.0 6 cyl is pushing 300 hp all in stk trim. A little prgoramming on the I6 produces about 350hp with 12-14 psai of boost. Like stated it really vaires on which ignition, cam, fuel delivery and computer you run as to what compression you need to run,
	[Reply w/Quote]