350 block

[charliepickup22]

just wanted some input. 1- the 350 blocks are all the same the only differance are the internals which are the horse power makers?? the casting numbers on the block tell you how much horse power the engine had correct?

the horse power is made up with the internals correct? i should get good horse power with a good pistons, cam and intake kit? also looking for opinion on a nice cam good low-end torque with a lopey idle. going with a carb set-up can i use a hyd.roller cam and lifters. trying to get opinions before i call summit.

[Maverick2664]

no not all 350s are the same, i build about 2 383's a week and i can tell you ive seen many different variations of the 350 block... but none that matter to you, none make a difference for a street driven engine, so dont worry about them, only the hardcore racers will look for a specific block, and thats if theyre not already using an aftermarket block... the average joe shouldnt be worried about it

as far as casting numbers go, they will tell you the date of production, which you would have to look up what HP was available during that year

yes, basically HP is determined by internals and induction, and can all be changed to suit your needs

call comp cams, tell them everything about your engine and vehicle and what you plan to do with it, and theyll tell you exactly what cam you need, whether you buy it from them or not... cam selection is a science all of its own, ask a pro

[charliepickup22]

since the 350 is carburated should i worry about degreeing the cam or just go straight up? also i am trying to get a balanced internal kit.

[SweetS10V8]

Degreeing a checking method that also shows you the cam is installed correctly and was aslo ground correctly.

[charliepickup22]

what do they mean when they say 3angle valve job? what does this do?
or should i just get polish and port done on the heads?

[SH-60B]

A port and polish on the heads can be very expensive, it depends on how far you want to go with that. Anything from a simple bowl blend that even I can do, up to CNC porting.

A picture can explain the 3 angle valve job. It helps flow, as you can see, it almost creates a radius for better flow. http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/iipcache/61374.jpg

[Maverick2664]

its a street engine, with stock heads... who is going to pay to have cnc machine work done to stock heads....

get a die grinder and some bits, and a set of gaskets for port match and have at it

[charliepickup22]

i have not decided weather to get aluminum heads or cast iron. port and polish will be done by a friend who has a engine shop, hope fully he will treat me well. i want at least 250hp or more.

[SH-60B]

You can make 250 HP practically by accident with even smog heads.

[sadexcuse4s10]

yeah don't waste your $ on porting, polishing, degreeing the cam, or aluminum heads if you're just looking for 250-300 HP

i have some old iron smog heads i got for free and a $220 rebuild kit with flat top aluminum pistons with a nice cam and i should make 250 Hp fairly easily.

ebay is your friend for this kind of stuff man, you can get an HEI distributor, aluminum intake manifold, a set of headers, and some roller rockers for fairly cheap and free up some HP

[Maverick2664]

haha yeah, what these guys said.... if you only want 250 hp, you could probably walk through a junkyard blindfolded and build it out of parts that you tripped over and still make 250

find a set of old 305 heads, they have a smaller chamber in them which will bump up your compression, they dont flow -that- great but its nothing a little bit of time and a die grinder cant fix (to a point)... you can usually find them for next to nothing, most of the time less then $30... the set i have that i had on my old build of my 383 i got for the price of a case of beer

[charliepickup22]

250hp is my goal but of coarse the more the happier i would be.this whole time i thought i would have break my bank for the pp to the heads, meanwhile i can use stock heads flat top aluminum pistons and a good cam set up and i will reach my goal and of coarse intake and carb. i have seen in summit a cam,lifter,carb and intake kit that looks very nice i will have to look in to this. i thought about ebay but i thought i would'nt find anything there.

[charliepickup22]

i just found a 350 that is bored .40 over i believe. is that good or bad???

[Maverick2664]

you can build a 350 really cheap if you take your time to gather parts, the first engine i had in my nova was a 350, i built it for next to nothing, shortblock was 125, crank was free, heads were a case of beer, entire valve train i found in a box of shit my dad had, bought an aluminum edelbrock intake for 25 off a friend, and my dad had a holley 650 double pumper on the shelf... the only thing i bought new for that engine was an autozone distributor and wires, cam and lifters from summit, a set of rings and bearings, a gasket set, and a chrome dressup kit... and it made pretty good power for what i had into it, not even a month later i tore it down and stroked it and it was a great little engine


and yes that .040 over block is fine, we told you that in the other thread you made... why ask it again

[charliepickup22]

on the intake, which is recommended the most single plane or dual plane??

also had a question on oil pump i heard on horse power the show that hv oil pumps can starve an engine from proper lube i guess the lower end is this true?

[SweetS10V8]

You need a dual plane. An Edelbrock Performer RPM or Performer RPM Air-Gap will work just fine. You can find them used for cheap, just watch out for stripped threads.

HV oil pump "can" suck all the oil out of the pan, but vary rearely do. Ive run them in many engines without issue.

Is the .040" over block, newly finished at .040" or was last run at .040"?

Summit cams suck!! Same with Edelbrocks cams, they are cheap for a reason. They are 30 year old designs that are slow and lazy. Get a cam from a cam manufacturer like Comp Cams, the extra $50 will be worth it.

You also need to make sure you break in your cam correctly, do you know how to do that?

[sadexcuse4s10]

so true about the cams.

most of the cheaper brand cams are just the OEM cams from camaros, corvettes, etc.... out of the late 60's and early 70's. They're good for one thing, decent power output from a low compression stock engine. These same cams are actually included in alot of low $ rebuild kits and sold under any name that gets slapped on the box. Many times called an RV cam.

I actually have one sitting in the box in my garage and it's not gonna be used for anything unless the original cam in my 70 gmc with the 307 burns a lobe off.





I actually installed a crane energizer cam in my 355 that's just about finished, and i think it will put out some decent performance even with smog heads.

[Maverick2664]

if youre worried about a high output oil pump, get a high capacity pan to compensate

[PHATDAN420]

You also need to make sure you break in your cam correctly, do you know how to do that?[/quote]


??? i wanna know??

[Maverick2664]

Quote: Originally Posted by PHATDAN420

??? i wanna know??

http://www.carcraft.com/howto/ccrp_0...cam/index.html

[SweetS10V8]

I always use Comp #159 break in lube. Ive seen that thye just released break in oil. Im going to try that if I ever run another flat tappet.

http://www.cpgnation.com/forum/comp-...ween-2747.html

For even more insurance you can have your camshaft nitrided.

[charliepickup22]

according to owner it was just bored @40 it never been built just the block and pistons. he has it sitting at his house but asking $450 waiting to see if he lowers the price.

[charliepickup22]

just found another 350 plane block std bore for 150 bucks that i'm going to look into. what carb should i use with the edelbrock rpm gap intake?

[Maverick2664]

Quote: Originally Posted by charliepickup22

according to owner it was just bored @40 it never been built just the block and pistons. he has it sitting at his house but asking $450 waiting to see if he lowers the price.

"never built" as in it wasnt finished being assembled, or as in its a complete engine but its not "built" performance wise

ask more about it, see if its been decked or line honed or anything, and what kind of pistons are in it.... because if its punched out, and at least decked, and pistons are included, then thats a pretty good deal, youll spend way more than that getting the standard bore block up to snuff. with that block you still need machine work done, pistons, rods, crank, rings, and bearings, which will put you way over the 450 of the shortblock that already comes with all that

[Maverick2664]

Quote: Originally Posted by charliepickup22

what carb should i use with the edelbrock rpm gap intake?

carb size depends on the breathing capabilty of the engine it sits on... but for most street 350's somewhere around a 600 is plenty

[Maverick2664]

in case youre interested.. heres the actual formula for determining the cfm requirement of a specific engine

Carb CFM = Engine displacement X Maximum RPM
------------------------- 3456

and if you want to get really specific, you multiply the volumetric efficiency by that number, most healthy engines run about 80-85% V.E.... all out race engines are 95+ V.E.

so for example, lets say your engine will never see more than 6000 rpm, 350 x 6000 = 2,100,000 / 3456 = 607.64 cfm... calculate an 85% VE into it and you have 516.49 cfm

so like i said, 600 is fine for a street 350

[charliepickup22]

the engine is what you would say built half way it has installed new pistons,rings. the crank was damaged and it was worked on.I'll have to waite until tomm. and call the guy to see if it has new cam bearings and what type of cam aslo what type of maincaps.from the picture the pistons look flat with valve relief. what do you mean by decked??

[charliepickup22]

i know the intake should be dual plane. i should use a 600cfm carb. understood now square bore or spread bore doulbe pump or single inlet.hey maverick thanks for your patience and help you really now what you talk about.

[SH-60B]

Quote: Originally Posted by charliepickup22

the engine is what you would say built half way it has installed new pistons,rings. the crank was damaged and it was worked on.I'll have to waite until tomm. and call the guy to see if it has new cam bearings and what type of cam aslo what type of maincaps.from the picture the pistons look flat with valve relief. what do you mean by decked??

That means that the mating surfaces for the heads have been trued by milling. They aren't always parallel to the main bore, so some pistons at one end of the block will be further down "in the hole" than the ones on the other end. Zero decking is the same procedure, but the deck is brought all the way down to the top of the pistons, this helps the quench.

[SH-60B]

Quote: Originally Posted by charliepickup22

i know the intake should be dual plane. i should use a 600cfm carb. understood now square bore or spread bore doulbe pump or single inlet.hey maverick thanks for your patience and help you really now what you talk about.

That intake will take either a square or a spread bore.

[charliepickup22]

need an opinion on a flex fan those aluminum fans that are fanclucthless

[Maverick2664]

flex blade fans are utter garbage and often lead to overheating problems, go with either a clutch style or electric

[sadexcuse4s10]

go electric fans man you'll be happy with them

[Maverick2664]

yup, they move a lot of air, theyre quiet, they dont rob power, they dont take up much space, and they come with a built in shroud

e-fans are awesome

[charliepickup22]

hey carb wise should i use single inlet or double pump?

[charliepickup22]

hey carb wise should i use single inlet or double pump?

[Crew Cab Sonoma]

for your goals, a double pumper is just wasted fuel.
a single feed is fine too.
a vac. secondary Holley in the 650-750 cfm range
will suit your needs just fine.
an Edelbrock or properly rebuilt Quadrajet will work well also.

[Maverick2664]

Quote: Originally Posted by Crew Cab Sonoma

for your goals, a double pumper is just wasted fuel.
a single feed is fine too.
a vac. secondary Holley in the 650-750 cfm range
will suit your needs just fine.
an Edelbrock or properly rebuilt Quadrajet will work well also.

agreed.

youll see decent milage out of a vac secondary and better yet out of a quadrajunk... but good luck finding someone that knows how to correctly tune one of those anymore, its becoming a lost art

[charliepickup22]

hey i've been looking a lot threw ebay i found a company that sell pro-comp products. is pro-comp a known company? or stay away from them. they have aluminum heads i believe 210cc dual plane intake and cylinder head covers. i also found a company that sells crane cams are they good?

[Maverick2664]

crane cams are supposed to be on par with comp cams... ive never used them but thats what i hear

[01cherryreds10]

"Supposedly" people have issues with the Pro-Comp heads. Even though I literally not 2 weeks ago saw a Super Chevy budget built where they made 400hp with around $1200 of off the shelf parts. It is what it is. And I'm definately with Maverick on the blocks not the same thing. I have a replacement crate in my Malibu and I have to say, it's the wierdest small block I've ever seen. Two oil dipstick tube holes. A smaller on the p/s and a larger on the d/s to use the factory dipstick of whatever the car originally had. Of course, taking this one out to put our 355 in, we cracked the dipstick tube on the passenger side. When the 355 spun a bearing, we put this engine back in, and yep of course, it takes a special dipstick. Story of my life. I've tried maybe 5 different dipsticks and I think tomorrow I'm going to call every parts store in the greater Will county area and buy like 8 different ones. Right now there is just a bolt siliconed in the hole

And for the OP I have a dual plane Edelbrock RPM Performer, Holley 670 Street Avenger, and a set of 1-5/8 longtubes. It's a pretty good street setup and it's on a super low compression engine.

[charliepickup22]

what should i looking at cam wise solid roller, hyd. roller or mech. roller? i found a place on ebay that sells lunati cams are they as good
as horsepower t.v says?

[Maverick2664]

stay away from solid lifters, theyre designed for all out race applications, yes theyll make more power and you can rev higher, but you have to adjust them all the time and theyre somewhat noisy... go with hydraulic lifter, theyre much better suited for street use and theyre maintenence free

if you go with a roller cam, make sure you get the correct lifters as well, and a girdle to prevent the lifter from spinning in its bore if it didnt already come built into the lifter... some do some dont

another thing if you go roller... get a bronze distributor gear, its a safety measure... roller cams are made from a softer material than a flat tappet is, the steel gear that comes on the distributor will literally eat the teeth right off the cam... replacing a $20 bronze gear is way cheaper than replacing a roller cam and lifters... and anything else that the cam material might have screwed up

[01cherryreds10]

It's all personal preference in cam selection. Rollers are nice but a roller setup can be expensive compared to a flat tappet hydraulic setup.

[charliepickup22]

what type of compression should i be looking at? how do i go about to get the proper compression??

[Maverick2664]

somewhere in the 9's or 10's is a good streetable number and keeps the engine reliable, you can go higher but beyond 11 youll need to start buying better fuel, 12+ you need race fuel

comp ratio is determined by a lot of factors, heres a calculator to help you out http://www.csgnetwork.com/compcalc.html

i ran some numbers through it that should be similar to what it sounds like you want to build... a standard bore, standard deck 350 with flat top pistons, and a 76 cc head will have a comp ratio of around 9.6:1

or a lets say you had the block bored .030 over, and got a set of 64cc heads, your new comp ratio would be 11.1:1... decking the block .010 would give another ~.4

so pick your parts carefully, if you dont plan your build accordingly you could end up with a compression ratio that you dont want

[charliepickup22]

would using stock crank and piston rods make a difference? what would be a good flat top piston?
what are stock heads "cc"? can i get them to 64cc? what would have to be done?
still looking for a 350 engine or block that's why i ask about stock heads.

[Maverick2664]

thats what those numbers i ran are with, stock crank, rods dont make a difference, but the stroke on the crank does... stock 350 stroke is 3.48

most factory heads are fairly low compression... the old non "high output" small blocks in stock form were usually 7:1 or so... the chamber size often depended on what engine they were on, 305's have a smaller chamber than a 350 would.. of course theres exceptions, but on average this is the case

on the high output engines came a variety of heads, all with different chamber and valve sizes... you can tell what they are by the casting number on them

Here is a quick 'cheater' list of common head CC and valve size(s):
(cast # - CC - Intake - Exhaust)
032 70cc 1.72 1.50
034 64cc 2.02 1.60
041 63cc 1.94 1.50
041 64cc 2.02 1.60
049 55cc 2.02 1.60
056 56cc 1.72 1.50
064 67cc 1.72 1.50
113 58cc 1.94 1.50
116 60cc 1.72 1.50
185 70cc 1.72 1.50
186 63cc 1.94 1.50
186 63cc 2.02 1.60
187 64cc 2.02 1.60
188 75cc 1.72 1.50
291-1 63cc 1.94 1.50
291-2 64cc 2.02 1.60
293 75cc 1.72 1.50
306 56cc 1.72 1.50
316 76cc 2.02 1.60
339 75cc 1.72 1.50
414 64cc 2.02 1.60
441 76cc 1.94 1.50
460 69cc 1.72 1.50
461 62cc 2.02 1.60
461x 62cc 1.94 1.50
462 62cc 1.94 1.50
462 63cc 2.02 1.60
465 60cc 1.72 1.50
480 69cc 1.72 1.50
482 75cc 1.72 1.50
487 75cc 1.94 1.50
487x 75cc 2.02 1.60
492 64cc 2.02 1.60
493 76cc 1.94 1.60
520 61cc 1.72 1.50
523 67cc 1.72 1.50
537 69cc 1.72 1.50
539 60cc 1.72 1.50
545 76cc 2.02 1.60
549 69cc 1.72 1.50
550 60cc 1.72 1.50
554 70cc 1.72 1.50
598 76cc 1.94 1.60
624 76cc 2.02 1.60
682 69cc 1.72 1.50
684 75cc 1.72 1.50
692 60cc 1.72 1.50
754 60cc 1.72 1.50
762 56cc 1.72 1.50
770 60cc 1.72 1.50
772 69cc 1.72 1.50
775 75cc 1.72 1.50
881 76cc 2.02 1.60
882 75cc 1.94 1.50
896 60cc 1.72 1.50
916 76cc 2.02 1.60
991 75cc 1.72 1.50
993 75cc 1.94 1.50
993 75cc 2.02 1.60
997 76cc 1.94 1.60

[charliepickup22]

that's one cheater list i guess the first 3 numbers are the head casting numbers.which type of crank give you the best stroke? if you have not guessed this would be my first engine build and i would love to be proud of it.

[Maverick2664]

rods dont make stroke, the crank does.... theres an endless list of combinations that you can make with crank stroke, rod length, and piston wristpin height

it all depends on what you want your engine to do and how deep your pockets are